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Jesse Prince tape 3

Tape 3, August 25, 1998

Lawrence Wollersheim and Jesse Prince

L: This is for Arthur and Mary Sue. What do you think, do you think that Suzette and Diana had attorneys?
J: I can only speculate on that, Lawrence, and I think the answer is no. The other two didn't, what the hell makes them special?
L: Do you think anybody said to them that because they were the family and the heirs that they had complete rights to all these assets?
J: No. Quite to the contrary. I'll tell you what they were told by David Miscavige because I heard these words come out of his mouth: "Everything that L. Ron Hubbard did, he did for the church. We are the church, not you. Therefore everything is staying right here with us." That's the way it went.
L: Did the lawyer ever say anything to them about -
J: Silent.
L: Never said anything about a state law or anything like that?
J: No.
L: They did everything - Did David ever, or Starkey ever.
J: No, you've got to me, because this gets frustrating. I told you exactly what happened. Raymond up and dropped the bomb on her that he didn't care about her, she hung her head and just started signing whatever they stuck under her hand.
L: Trust me on these questions, there's a reason for them. We'll talk about it when we're done. Did anyone tell her that the law said that - did anyone imply that the law was not on her side?
J: No.
L: So they just simply said, we own this because Hubbard did it for us, sign the document, with 12 to 17 men in uniform standing around her an intimidating presence, screaming at her.
J: No, everybody wasn't - .
L: Just Miscavige.
J: Norman and Miscavige. He introduced us, he said, these are the people in RTC, they do this, they're running things, not you, not the family. Here's international management, Mark Yeager, he's running things not you. Here's all the services, you're not part of this.
L: Do you think the Hubbard family had any idea that his assets were worth from $100 to $400 million?
J: No.
L: Do you think that them receiving $50,000 each and Mary Sue receiving $100,000 for the estate of L. Ron Hubbard, do you think they would have done that if they had legal counsel, had there not been people standing in their room 12-17 men, women, in uniform, and being screamed at? Do you think they would have done that after careful selection?
J: I'll say this, the answer is obvious. David Miscavige had a smile on his face for nearly a week after he pulled that off. I mean he was happy, happy, happy.
L: He just made $400,000,000.
J: Or more. I think it's a lot more than that. Can we take a break?
[BREAK]
L: Let's go back to fraud in the Hubbard estate. Anything else you know about any of the asset transfers, anything having to do with how the Hubbard family was manipulated maybe prior to them being given these ridiculous documents to sign, that signed away hundreds of millions of dollars of their inheritance?
J: This is another incident that I was directly involved in. This was like a couple of weeks after I was brought up to the Hemet location, which I didn't want to go to in the first place. There had been a situation where Diana Hubbard wanted nothing else to do with the church. She had married some record producer guy, his name was John Ryan. He was interested in her as an artist, and she just wanted to dissociate herself from Scientology. Well, she effectively did so, and she was extremely non-cooperative. Now this was a nightmare for David Miscavige and I guess L. Ron Hubbard. Because L. Ron Hubbard was concerned with Roe Ann, Diana's daughter, not being within the confines of the church. For a long time after Diana's decision to leave the church, and which she did, you know whe used to have that penthouse at Flag, on the second floor, she just abandoned that, ran away, married this other guy. L. Ron Hubbard had sent down orders to get her to turn over custody of Roe Ann to John Hallwitch, her former husband and father of the child, who was still in Scientology in the Sea Org. He came from quite a wealthy family himself. It was my job to go there and make her sign over legal custody of the child. I was given mission orders by Miscavige and Starkey, who talked to me extensively about things that had been done, and what was she was doing. David Miscavige mentioned that she was in the Mile High Club, giving people blow jobs on the airplanes, and this and that and the other thing. Screwing this one and screwing that one, and just kind of out in life trying to be a normal person is how I see it at this point. I was to go there, she could do that, but I was to do that and get her to sign over custody of her child to her former husband, which I did do.
L: She actually signed over custody of her child?
J: Yes.
L: What did you say or do to make a mother give up her child to an organization she wants nothing to do with?
J: I told her just basically spoke to her about the goodness of Scientology and the Sea Org and all of the things it was trying to do. That she had chosen another path, and it was obvious that she was going to do that, but to please let Roe Ann grow up in an environment where people would look after her and she would be perfectly taken care of. Of which she was. She was like a child prodigy; she lived like a princess in the making. For some reason on another, there was literally no resistance. She just said OK and signed it. I was there all of 45 minutes. By the time I finished my speel, she had her damn pen in her hand.
L: You never had to say anything negative, no threats, no nothing?
J: No sect checks, no I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that. She just did it. She was tired of fighting, she was pale. I was the last person in the line of many. Vicky Aznaran went there and screamed at her, had a fit, totally screwed the whole thing up. David Miscavige went there, screaming at her, telling her how horrible she was.
L: So, people had already taken her through the baiting, they had already wore her down.
J: Months earlier.
L: How many missions went there to try to get her kid from her.
J: Two.
L: David Miscavige and Vicky Aznaran, and you know for a fact they screamed at her?
J: And failed miserably, and she just got worse.
L: Did they threaten her?
J: I'm sure they did, but I wasn't privy to that. I just know how they act, the kind of people they are.
L: When you came there she was pale?
J: Kind of listless, kind of. She had been in a giving up position, like I just give the hell up. I just spoke to her, I said, these are my views on it, you know why I'm here. This is why we're doing it. By the time I got out my speel she said, OK, where do I sign. No representation, no attorney, nothing.
L: Signed over her -
J: Her only child.

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