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Jesse Prince tape 2

Tape 2, August 24, 1998

Lawrence Wollersheim and Jesse Prince

L: Does the average staff member know that he has all this?
J: The ones that are their can see it with their own eyes. Probably, not the ones that are not there.
L: There is nothing published about his suits, the cost of his..
J: Yeah, he has at least three cars too. The one car that he had, he had just bought a brand new Miata. He also had two other cars, one was a Nissan Maxima, brand new, and then he had 4 cars, and he had a van.
L: He had 4 cars, were they new?
J: Brand new.
L: Here's a man making $40,000 a year with 4 brand new cars, $150,00 worth of clothes, a safe full of gold and silver, and his wife with matching jewelry. Does his wife have fancy jewelry?
J: Yes. Real diamonds with a sparkle that will blind you.
L: Is her family very wealthy?
J: They are as poor as dirt. Her mother was married to a black man, they struggled, he was a little fix-it man. That's how they lived.
L: Tell me more about this. Does Miscavige go to Reno and Las Vegas and gamble, does he take cruises, does he use the facility?
J: He goes out on helicopter rides, he goes to the Bahamas, he gets special boats, special launches to take him fishing, cruise the islands.
L: Does he go on vacations like normal Sea Org members..
J: I'd say he goes on vacation 4 times a year.
L: How long are these vacations?
J: A couple weeks, 3 weeks.
L: Two or 3 weeks each, he could be on vacation 10 weeks of the year?
J: I would think that was 15.
L: 12 to 15? Who pays for these vacations?
J: The church.
L: All expenses?
J: All expenses paid. He doesn't have to pay a damn thing. L; These vacations could cost, a week in the Bahamas, the way he lives, how much do you think it could cost? Does he go first class, does he get a nice room? He doesn't get an economy room.
J: He lives on the ship where he has a special room for him, where he has all his slaves. But, when he goes to do his other activities, like he wants to go on a submarine, or he wants to get a charter, a smaller boat to run around, or go on a helicopter and look at the islands, or whatever the hell, this kind of thing.
L: The church pays for it?
J: Yeah.
L: Does he ever go on a vacation away from the church? Just he and his wife take a little trip?
J: Yes, they have, but often he doesn't take her.
L: He goes without her.
J: He takes some of his other buddies, other Scientology friends.
L: Marty Rathbun, does he take the top people?
J: Mark Yeager, Lyman, Norman. Him and Norman are inseparable when it comes to vacation.
L: So they go off on themselves, without Scientology to see -
J: They have Marty with them, all the cover people are watching them, making sure. Security often travels with them too from Emit California, the take a few of those people with them.
L: So, there is a place in New Mexico, a house, some little retreat center, do you know anything about this house?
J: Is this where people get medical treatment?
L: I don't know, you've heard about a house where they're getting medical treatment?
J: I heard there was a place where some doctor was doing this medical treatment on cancer, some kind of cancer treatment on Scientology people in Mexico.
L: In New Mexico.
J: New Mexico, no, I don't know.
L: New Mexico or Arizona, nothing about a special house down there?
J: No.
L: Do you know any other places were David Miscavige spends more than you would expect for a guy making $40,000 a year in a church that is very conscious of expenditures, where no one else is allowed any luxuries? Do you know any other places where he's spending lots of money?
J: Besides the Bahamas, Paris, you know, Copenhagen, wherever he goes. Where there's a Scientology place, when he finishes his business there, he has the luxuries of -
L: When he goes out to eat for dinner, does he spend a lot of money at fancy places?
J: I can only imagine because I know when I did, I've gotten bills that were up over $500 for a meal.
L: When you did this? Did anybody ever say anything to you?
J: Never.
L: Tell me, is there an unwritten code that the top people in Scientology -
J: Do whatever they want to.
L: Name the people that can do whatever they want.
J: I'm talking about during my time period, up to 1987 when I was an executive, and then I've seen it. Norman Starkey, Dave Miscavige, Shelly Miscavige, also at the time Mark Yeager, who still in my estimation tried to be frugal, because CSI was footing most of the bill for everything that he did. Marty Rathbun spares no expense.
L: First class everything.
J: I've got to have PIs, I've got to have this, whatever he wants, it's pretty unlimited. Norman Starkey is very extravagant. The guy has to have the best of everything, his wife, Maria Starkey.
L: Would it be safe to say these people are being paid big money?
J: Giant, giant money.
L: How much do you think a year, in real money, when you take all the resources, all the assets, all the expense accounts?
J: Three quarters of a million dollars.
L: They are making $750,000?
J: They're spending that much.
L: Using it for their private pleasure and whatever else. The majority Scientology staff member are making $30, $40, $50 a week, living in would you say good conditions?
J: No, horrid conditions.
L: Horrid conditions. And these guys are up on the pile, taking, creaming the organization for everything they can get. Do you have any knowledge that they've taken money in for themselves and moved it into bank accounts in their own names in other countries anywhere else?
J: I know that they have done that, but I don't know any specifics about that. There was a point in tape where they were threatening bank account freezes on Dave Miscavige, Norman, and a few other people. They actually did freeze his bank account. But that was just a laughing joke. There is no way you could stop money from coming into that.
L: He could take it out of any church. David Miscavige, does he have enough control that he could walk into any church, walk into their bank accounts, and order the bank account to be written over to him on the spot?
J: On the spot.
L: And it would be done?
J: Mm-hmm.
L: You have no doubt that if he ordered it, no matter if it was a franchise, a separate franchise..
J: Whatever.
L: If he walked into Narconon and said -
J: "I need the money", it would be gone.
L: ..write me a check for all the money in the account, it would be done, and they would immediately comply with his order?
J: Right.
L: Why?
J: Because of the FBO system, the Flag Banking System. All of those people are normally brought up to Gold and indoctrinated to go with the orders. They try to explain to them. Their basic idea is get as much money as you can and send it to him. When they come there, you pay for everything.
L: If you can recall anything where any of the top people have private bank accounts, if you know of Scientology assets being put into private accounts for security reserve, anything like that...
J: Cyprus, I know about that, we can talk about that tomorrow.
L: Cyprus, yeah, we'll talk about that and take it from there.

[End of tape]

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