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Jesse Tape Six

Tape 6, August 27, 1998

Lawrence Wollersheim and Jesse Prince

L: Who was going to see her?
J: Marty went to see her, maybe Terry Gaboa went to see her, you know, people from ASI trying to get her to come back. Now, that'd be good, if I could call Terri and ask her where I could find Pat Brice. Break time. Pee time.
[Break]
L: OK. We're talking about Pat Brice, and would you said is that-- How important was Pat? Pat Brice left Scientology.
J: She was L. Ron Hubbard's personal secretary in the Author Services.
L: And she was the one who personally filed all these copyrights that were in public domain and basically made it to appear that they were good copyrights, and refiled it, and followed David Miscavige's orders to do what she had to do?
J: Right.
L: To cover Scientology's copyrights.
J: Right.
L: Were there any attorneys assisting her with that at the time?
J: I believe Tom Small.
L: Tom Small was assisting her filing all these copyrights. Is there anything that would make you believe that Mr. Small knew that these were not valid copyrights that were being filed?
J: Yes.
L: What did he say or do?
J: I couldn't - That's something I believe. I didn't see or hear nothing.
L: Just your belief but you have no concrete evidence. He was involved in the filing of these, though?
J: He talked to her because we had a good trademark firm. And those things are kind of very much similar, if you do one, you do the other, trademark/copyright. And he seemed to be pretty knowledgeable about copyright law. And there was another attorney in his office that actually used to do all the work and was actually kind of gay and everyone made fun of him, and I do believe he also may have worked with Pat. And he later dispected [?] and left Tom Small's office.
L: OK. When Pat Brice left, was this a problem?
J: A major, major problem for Author Services.
L: You've seen a lot of problems as second in command at Scientology. On a scale of one to ten, how back a problem was this when Pat Brice left?
J: It was a 12.
L: Why do you think it was a 12?
J: Simply because she was upset specifically with Norman and David Miscavige about their conduct, about their harshness, the screaming, the lewdness, the drunkenness that was going on every weekend at ASI. I mean, come Friday, everybody's drunk and--
[END of SIDE A]
[SIDE B]
L: You were talking about?
J: She had been degraded so much herself, and screamed at and abused by David Miscavige, that I just think she had had enough. Her major complaint was the way Norman and David Miscavige ran that organization and how they treated the staff. Even though she was working at the best, most posh organization within the Scientology structure and getting paid more than anyone, she still could not tolerate the behavior.
L: OK. You said they were drinking on the weekends and getting drunk. Were they drinking inside the organization?
J: Yes, that's part of it.
L: You mean, at a bar or they'd bring in liquor?
J: Food, bunch of food, liquor. Whatever you want.
L: They would party inside the organizations and get drunk?
J: Yes.
L: How often did this occur?
J: I saw it happen week after week after week after week.
L: How many other Sea Org members on Friday have food and alcohol and get drunk and have a little party?
J: Well, Religious Technology Center started it, CSI started it. I know I definitely developed a drinking problem as senior executive within the Religious Technology Center.
L: Do you think these other Scientologists and the Sea Org members who were working 80, 90, a hundred hours a week and living in deprivation and making $24 a week, are they aware of these weekend drunk parties at the headquarters of all of Scientology?
J: I don't think so.
L: And these were regular events.
J: But see, this is something you also have to take into consideration. That is the L. Ron Hubbard way. If you listen to Welcome to the Sea Org tapes, your introduction to the Sea Org. He himself talks about how much they drink, with the hot buttered rum and people getting drunk and having a good time. So that's what they do there.
L: Well how come all the staff members don't get to have a party on Friday and good food and alcohol, and get drunk? How come it's only these people at --
J: Lest I be the one to defend their practices.
L: That's just the way it is.
J: That's the way it is and there's no way that I can explain it. That's just the way it is.
L: When Pat Brice left, you said it was 12 on a scale of 1 to 10. Were they worried about this?
J: Well, I'll tell you what happened and that'll answer that question. Ray Mithoff, the top senior technical person in the whole church flew out to see her. Marty Rathbun, the top legal person in the whole church, flew out to see her. I believe Terry Gamboa also flew off to see her and talk to her. I think very well Marion Linden [?] also may have flown off to see her.
L: All at the same time?
J: Oh no, different times. Heidi Stalli [?] probably went there and audited her. It's very possible that Mike Eldridge could have been one of the persons that went out there. He was like a senior Qual person inside ASI.
L: So there were six people over a period of how long?
J: Two months.

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