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Jesse Tape Six

Tape 6, August 27, 1998

Lawrence Wollersheim and Jesse Prince

L: When you say he had two psychotic breaks --
J: Near psychotic breaks.
L: Near psychotic breaks, do you remember any more detail about that?
J: Yes, once we were in DC. This was shortly after Reagan got shot in DC. We were in DC. We meaning David Miscavige, Norman, Vicky Aznaran, Rick Aznaran, Warren McShane, Alan Cartwright. And Joe Yanni too. And Warren had been doing some work. I don't remember specifically what it is but I know I ended up having to sit with him while everyone went out and partied and got drunk because he was my junior, because he was incapable of functioning at all. I mean, he was just like staring around, just a bumbling idiot, talking to himself. He was a mess.
L: You'd say a near psychotic state?
J: Yeah, that's what I said exactly.
L: Why were you all in Washington, DC?
J: I'm trying to recall the event.
L: Was it the Org or something like that?
J: No. We were up there on business. Oh! They had opened up a PR office in DC. Oh, now you got me remembering about politicians and stuff. Yes, yes, yes. They opened up a PR office in DC to affect, to start rubbing elbows with politicians, to become involved with the political process, to get allies. This was some bright idea to have some big PR office. I think, who was it? Cathy somebody, somebody was over it, and we were there, spared no expense with the cost, with the idea of getting senators and lawmakers and lawyers and judges all cozy, cozy, cozy with Scientology.
L: Do you have any idea how much they spent, you know, to create this office? Any estimates?
J: About a half a million dollars.
L: Half a million dollars to set up a public relations office to influence politicians in Washington.
J: Correct.
L: Do you know what --
J: It was prior to, yeah, this was prior to the IRS agreement because that was part of the strategy with trying to get tax exempt status, is to get Scientology into the main legal minds of the people on Capital Hill making those decisions.
L: Did they ever discuss setting up this office to influence politicians?
J: That's the exact reason why it was there, to influence people, to win friends and gain influence.
L: To influence legislation?
J: Particularly concerning Scientology, yes.
L: The Church of Scientology. So they were there setting this up to influence legislation for the Church of Scientology.
J: Right.
L: A church is not allowed to engage in political lobbying or try to influence legislation. Their tax-exempt status would be pulled away immediately if it's found out that a church is using the power of religion and the pulpit. There is separation of Church and State in this country for very good reasons, and if a church is influencing elections, politicians, or legislation, that's grounds to remove a 501(c)(3).
J: OK. You know that and maybe people you're talking to, but let me just say some more about this. I remember having meetings at Author Services in that boardroom, same boardroom where we with copyrights and all of that, another clandestine meeting, where it was researched the exact location. It was even figured out, OK, which legislator goes here, where the judge hangs out, where these people go, is where we're gonna put this PR church. And it ended up being in a ritzy area. And it was made to look ritzy, just like everything else. This was planned and executed for months. The research, the concept being to influence these lawmakers, to get in and start rubbing elbows, specifically for the tax-exempt status, and different legal cases that were going on with the church at the time.
L: To try to influence the legislator, the judicial department on legislation that was ongoing against the church.
J: Correct. I don't know how successful it was.
L: You were in the ASI building. Were they doing this for ASI or were they doing this for the Church of Scientology.
J: For the Church of Scientology.
L: Why do you say that and not, because you were in the ASI building?
J: Because, that's -- ASI is like the corporation that at that time period ran the entirety of Scientology and the person who was doing that was David Miscavige.
L: So ASI, in effect, ran Scientology.
J: Yeah, and we've said that a hundred times.
L: OK. It's important for legal reasons. It relates to this particular thing that your talking about. Going back to your experience and expertise in Scientology, when they would issue-- You said before that you're not an expert on publication and issuing, and the legal definitions for copyrights, but you know when something's issued in Scientology by Scientology's definition of what it means when it's issued.
J: Right.
L: And you know when they've published, when they issue something, that's publication in Scientology.
J: That's the same.
L: Even though, out in the law of the world, when you issue it and when you publish it might have a legal difference definition, in Scientology, everybody knows when you issue something, that means it's published, and it can either have a big list of who it's issued to or a small list--.
J: Correct.
L: But you are publishing that to selective public groupings.
J: Put it this way. It is published and issued, my understanding of it. OK, so like this is, so this is a new edition that we gonna put out by L. Ron Hubbard even though he may have never seen it or whatever. It goes through Issue Authority and the moment it's approved, it is then published as a document, many, many copies made and then it's issued to whoever it goes to.
L: So you know Scientology's definition?
J: Right, and that's what I've just explained.
L: Issued and published, it might not be the same as what the legal definition of issued and published. Like, for example, a person can write something, you know, and have it being typed, and have it being proofread. Somebody might consider that issued but not until the book publisher put it into a bookstore would it be considered published.
J: Right.
L: That might be another definition used in law or some other corporation. But in the corporation of Scientology, when it was issued, it was published.
J: When it was approved, it was published, then issued.

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