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Harley Davidson smoke and mirrors Harley does not build a better bike

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  • Harley Davidson smoke and mirrors Harley does not build a better bike

    Most people ride a Harley because of its image not that it is a better bike. Harley uses branding advertising smoke and mirrors to try to convince people that they are rebels and independent when in reality this is not the case. People spending the same money to buy a Harley that it cost for a decent car, when both foreign and domestic manufacturers make better riding motorcycles for less. Plus you don't have to pay huge mechanic fees to fix them and wait a month to get your motorcycle back from the Harley Shop.

    There are better bikes for way less money and the same money.

    Jesus wouldn't perpetuate the Harley public relations ploy to promote their image. The average Harley buyer today
    Harley-Davidson Inc. reports that about 10 percent of its buyers today are women, up from about 2 percent in the late 1980s and early 1990s.

    The venerable American motorcycle manufacturer, which celebrated its 100th anniversary in 2003, wants its customers in the next century to reflect America's changing demographics.

    The company reports that the average buyer of a Harley-Davidson today is a married man in his mid-40s with a household income of about $81,400.

    Just 1 percent of sales are to African Americans and 3.4 percent are to Hispanics. Overall, people of ethnic descent make up just 8 percent of purchasers.

    "Purely from a business perspective, women make up over 50 percent of the population, Hispanics are the fastest-growing minority group. African Americans have excellent purchasing power. All of those groups certainly have the economic ability to be part of our future customer base," said Kathleen Lawler, Harley-Davidson's vice president of communication.

    In recent years, Harley-Davidson hasn't had too much trouble attracting more customers despite selling motorcycles that it acknowledges can cost as much as 50 percent more than comparable rivals.

    Harley-Davidson's 23.7 percent of the market is second only to Honda's 27.4 percent in the United States, according to the Motorcycle Industry Council.

    In the category of heavyweight motorcycles with bigger engines, Harley's market share is 49.5 percent. Honda is No. 2 with 18.7 percent of that segment, which accounts for about half of U.S. motorcycle sales.

    Harley-Davidson was looking a bit less shiny after executives reported that U.S. retail sales were flat in the first quarter. The company also warned that it would ship just 329,000 motorcycles this year instead of the original target of 339,000 and nixed its goal of selling 400,000 machines in 2007
    Though just 4 percent of motorcycle riders overall are African Americans, nearly 10 percent of sports bike owners are black and 6 percent are Hispanic.

    For Paul Speid, deciding against a Harley isn't a matter of his African American race but his age. The 42-year-old New York Transit Authority employee from Mount Vernon said he considers himself too young for a Harley and plans to buy a sportier bike.

    "They are nice bikes, but with Harley, they are mostly cruisers, and that's something for an older gentleman," he said.

    That feeling is shared by 20-year-old Nick Barghout of Mount Kisco, who recently purchased a sporty Yamaha.

    Buying a Harley was out of the question. "They're good bikes, but not for me. Maybe when I'm like 50," he said.

    "We spent a lot of time talking to women, and what they say to us is they are interested in Harley-Davidson because of what it can do for their own self-esteem, because of what it can do for their own sense of individuality," Lawler said.

  • #2
    [b]I am fed up with yuppy baby

    I am fed up with yuppy baby boomers who plunk down $30 k on a Harley and all its tricked out accessories along with it and look their noses down on people that don't ride a Harley.

    They have been riding for two months and all of a sudden they consider themselves better than the non Harley rider.

    I remember when one finger (%1)percent high sign meant something. Today these fools don't know what one-pecent means.

    Don't get me wrong. I am pro rider no matter what you ride. I don't care where your bike came from. You ride. You like riding. COOL! More power to you. But these fools that think if you don't ride a Harley you're not cool or good enough to ride with take your attitude and stick it!

    Not all Harley riders are elitist egotists with prejudice to all other brands. I remember when Harley was the worse motorcycle to keep running. Looks mean nothing about getting you to your next destination.

    Harley has improved over the years but their advertising far exceeds the motorcycles perofomance both in handling and realiabilty.

    Their clothing and huge accessory line is their even bigger ego rip off. Does it really have to say Harley. In this day of brand equals self esteem do we really need to wear Harley clothes too. It's free advertising and money in the stock market price for Harley.

    Buy a custom bike, a foreign bike, a used bike or anything else. If you own a Harley sell it. Make Harley lower their prices and really compete on a performance level, on reliability, and on handling. These unreliable overweight pigs are truly just that HOGS.

    Harley makes bikes for old people who don't know any better than to pay the huge prices for them and all their propietary junk that they sell.


    • #3
      Hardley riders are the unfrien

      Hardley riders are the unfriendliest bunch of monkeys on the road. Never wave, always trying to look bad, roaring their pipes in the parking lot (the horrendous volume of the exhaust saving their lives, I suppose, from little kids on roller blades and bicycles), and giving the rest of us a bad image. I would pull over to help anybody having bike trouble, unless they "live to ride" (on the weekends, when the weather is nice, if their bike happens to be running and not in the shop).

      I owned 4 Harleys. Years ago you could go into a Harley shop and talk to the wrench who would work on your scoot, asking questions and getting help in the event you could not fix the problem yourself. Now you cannot even get your eyes on the dope who is going to touch your ride. You end up talking to some butthead in the new botique who was selling computers a week before.

      Harley-You gave me some memories some bad, but you outgrew your welcome. Good example of todays Harley rider happened when I was on ride last summer and dude on new HOG was stranded in Southern Colorado with his dressed to the nines ol'lady. Stopped to help and due was cocky, but could not get bike to start. Was on his cell phone at the time we stopped to help. Problem was: engine kill switch!! (true story!!)


      • #4
        I had an accident with the roa

        I had an accident with the road king and an ultra glide caused by weight and the steering being rubber mounted, (yes I know they changed some counterbalance but only a few) at high speed ,it began to tank slap and I woke up in the hospital. I then searched for a powerful cruiser that would handle and maneuver better and safer. I tried a Yamaha, good bike, I bought a 1100 xx Honda, handled like a dream but had to wear full face helmet. felt like a prisoner. back to dealer. proposed a valkerie try. voila..., bought same hour .power ,handling, music, safety and braking. happy biker. I still wear my hd clothing and get flack about it ,so what. not riding a tractor I mean Harley any more claude

        comments from another site

        I rode (and built) HD shovels and pans for 25+ years. I guess I just got bored with the Harley scene. Got the need for speed and tried out the crotch rockets for a while (zx11) which was a blast, but cops did'nt think so. Then the Valk came out. best of both worlds takes off like the zx11, cool like a Harley without trying to be one, but smoother than both.


        • #5
          Wow, very interesting guys - e

          Wow, very interesting guys - especially for me as I am currently considering entering the world of motorcycle ownership, but . . .

          After reading every interesting post in this thread I still don't see what any of this has to do with a cult, or even 'cult like' activities. This has more to do with corporate 'branding'. As much-improved as Harley bikes have become, their manufacturing isn't nearly as strong as their corporate image. It always amuses me when someone sports the Harley logo - sometimes even permanently on their skin - that they, no doubt, consider themselves a big 'rebel'. Truth is, they're just sporting yet another corporate image.

          But I have to say, that you guys that want to dis Harley and see more people buying foreign REALLY confuse me. What, have you not seen American manufacturing taking big enough hits in the automobile industry? If this country loses the automobile industry we are all in BIG trouble, and motorcycle manufacturing is just a microcosm of the auto industry.

          You don't have to like Harley-Davidson, but if you give a rat's @ss about American manufacturing you should hope they correct whatever you don't like about them and not just advise people to "buy foreign".


          • #6
            Harley does not make every par

            Harley does not make every part in the U.S. and was once the only American motorcycle made but they aren't anymore and they are so overpriced they should have better handling, reliability and performance for such a high price.

            Harley Davidson owners are preoccupied with image and sound, so much so that they've forgotten the basic principle that backs up those two aspects; performance. Image and sound are nothing, they are meaningless, without performance, but you can't convince people of that today. Performance. You can't have image and sound without performance to back it up. You just can't. If you try, you've got a facade, a hollow shell and you're just a wannabe hiding within it.

            As Americans, we live in the greatest country, the greatest country in the entire world. We, as Americans, are driven to be the first in everything. It's our nature. We're not slackers. We take second best to no one. It's a national point of pride. No one can beat our military, our pride, our technology, our determinedness, or our ingenuity. There is nothing in the world, no problem, no tragedy, no foe too great that America cannot triumph over them.

            So, then, I&#39;m afraid to inform you that, in one very important regard, we ARE willing to settle for second best or even worse, last place. America has become complacent in the world, we are content to sit on our fat butts and watch others whiz past at breakneck speed and yet we do nothing. We&#39;re getting left behind because we can&#39;t keep up. Why? Because we are stuck in a misunderstood and ill-conceived mental rut. I&#39;m talking about motorcycles, American made and built motorcycles; Harley Davidsons to be exact. You see them everywhere, and you know the kind of rider that is usually aboard one. Leather chaps, leather jacket, combat boots, the very epitome of a bad <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font> biker.

            But, that&#39;s just a wishful image. All that stuff came out of a corporate catalog... One Harley rider looks like another, pretty much, yet they all claim that they are &#39;individuals&#39;. Seeing a group of Harleys go past is like watching a cut scene from the movie &#34;The Stepford Wives&#34;. They&#39;re all identical, they look alike, and they all ride the same thing; junk.

            Very few Harleys are truly fast or powerful. Most are just loud rattletraps, over priced dealer wannabes or pieced together hope it works tomorrow wonders. They are paper tigers, all show and no go. You can get a hundred pounds of chrome on one of those motorcycles straight from the factory. Matching leather everything as well, even down to the little official HD logo which is oh so important to this flock behavior mindset. Studded, braided, polished, painted, chromed, but ... it&#39;s all flash. It&#39;s all custom parts and paint, all jury rigged and low tech. In anything else but a Harley, the extremes that most Harley owners go to would be considered tacky and tasteless, and probably laughable.

            The roar of a Harley is really just the growling of a sheep in wolf&#39;s clothing, and the bleating of the image driven lemmings that ride them.


            • #7
              Sure, Harleys can be

              Sure, Harleys can be made to perform, but you have to rebuild them from the ground up and by the time that you get any decent performance out of a Harley, you could have bought two or three Japanese bikes for cash. Harley&#39;s fastest motorcycle, the Sportster, isn&#39;t anywhere near deserving of its name. There is no &#34;sport&#34; to the Sportster, and with a 883cc engine pushing out a meager forty seven horsepower, you have all the makings for a Black Angus set in motion by a mouse fart. As a comparative example, take the 1995 Kawasaki Ninja ZX-6R&#39;s 599cc in-line four which makes ninety-seven horsepower. How American is it to be big and slow? How American is it to be outdated and obsolete? More than twice as much power with two hundred cee-cees less displacement! That&#39;s sad and embarrassing. If the Harley Sportster made anywhere near what it&#39;s displacement could be, it would be a much better motorcycle. As it is, there are some imported single cylinders and some 250cc Japanese sport bikes that put out more horsepower than Harley&#39;s 883cc rolling excuse for an entry-level purchase into the whole flock mindset.

              And what about price and cost of upkeep? A top of the line Harley costs many thousands more than a comparable import motorcycle, is less dependable, doesn&#39;t enjoy the quality or workmanship, and won&#39;t even perform as well. It isn&#39;t even close. So, why do so many people flock to HD dealerships and wait in line for months for a Harley? Because they are sheep. Why does a Harley hold its resale value so well when all the cards are stacked against it?

              Because of one thing; image.

              An underlying factor is also stupidity.

              Harley Davidson&#39;s stupidity, you ask? Hell no. Harley Davidson is about one of the smartest motorcycle manufacturers in the world. The stupidity can be traced right back to YOU, the unwitting public who buys what Milwaukee is selling and Milwaukee is selling only one thing; image. Image with no substance, image at a price. Anyone can ride a Harley, it just takes lots of money and very little brains. How else can you explain paying so much and receiving so little in return?


              Image is a powerful thing. We, as Americans, want to project a strong image to the rest of the world, but in doing so, we have become lazy. We are now willing to pay large amounts of money to buy an image, rather than go out and earn one for ourselves. We are lazy. It is easier to walk into a motorcycle dealer, buy a new Harley Davidson, and then tell ourselves, &#34;I own a Harley, therefore I am a bad <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font> because a Harley is a bad <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font> bike. That movie I watched last night proved that!.&#34; than it is to go out and actually prove that we are bad <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font>. It doesn&#39;t matter that you&#39;re overweight, ugly, live in a trailer park, on your third marriage, and just lost your job at the cigarette packing plant. Hey, you&#39;re bad because you own a Harley. It doesn&#39;t matter if your bike is made up of parts from six or ten other Harleys, you are one tough bad <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font>. All because you own a certain type of motorcycle?

              And you&#39;re wrong.


              • #8
                [b]You have a brand new Harley

                You have a brand new Harley for this model year.

                At least you, the public, think that you do, and the boys in Milwaukee would really want you to believe that, but in reality, this year&#39;s &#39;new&#39; model has the gas tank from three years ago, the forks from fifty years ago, wheels from five years ago, etc., etc., etc. The only thing on that bike you just bought that probably is brand new is the price tag and the rubber it rolls on. Everything else came out of parts bins somewhere in Milwaukee. I don&#39;t think that we&#39;ve seen any innovation from Milwaukee for sixty years now and don&#39;t mention low selling v-rod. If Japan, Italy, and Germany did product development the same way that Harley Davidson does, there wouldn&#39;t be Honda, Ducati, or BMW bikes. There wouldn&#39;t be VCRs, mini-TVs, or Sony Walkmans. We&#39;d all still be listening to wind up phonographs and watching black and white TV through vacuum tubes. And we&#39;d be paying thousands of dollars for it and each one would be named &#34;American Heritage Edition FGXLR TV&#34; or something equally lame.

                But they would be nostalgic.

                The only reason that I would even consider that a Harley was an American motorcycle is that it is made in Milwaukee, which is a city in the United States &#40;and apparently the population is composed of nothing but sheep&#41;. But then Honda makes its motorcycles and some of its cars in the United States, at American built assembly plants, staffed by American workers. Is Honda also an American motorcycle? Honda assembles its cycles and cars over here, on American soil. If you take it down to the barest essentials, a Harley is no more American than a Honda Shadow or a Honda Civic. American made my foot. Who are they fooling? Apparently, enough people to stay in business, which is sad to think that it takes the average mentality of a pack of stale Twinkies&#40;tm&#41; to buy any Harley Davidson product, let alone one of their motorcycles. But people are sheep, and sheep like to be part of flocks, and flocks need a way to identify sheep that belong to them. It is simple brand association at work, much like cattle in the old west were once subjected to and still are today.

                Hence the Harley Davidson merchandise and officially licensed products that often have the Harley shield and bar on them, but really don&#39;t have much to do with the actual motorcycle experience itself.&#40;and not made in America either.&#41;

                Harley&#39;s even used Japanese carburetors on their bikes!? Why is that!? Because Japan does it better and has for a long time. The automobile industry has had to play catch up with Japan since the mid-70&#39;s and only lately has the market gained against the wave of invasions from the Far East. Milwaukee just hasn&#39;t seen the big picture yet. Either that, or they just aren&#39;t smart enough to do anything about it. Or maybe Milwaukee has done all it can do, and where it can&#39;t compete in technology and production, it chooses to supplement its income by marketing its tired old image as something &#39;bad&#39;, as &#39;the American dream&#39;, and ramming it down the throat of ignorant sheep with more money than brains.

                Japan has caught America napping &#40;again&#41; and Milwaukee, sadly, is the only game in town if you want a &#39;home grown&#39; motorcycle, but what Milwaukee is offering is not worthy of being called &#39;American&#39; by any stretch of the definition. It&#39;s survival of the fittest. Harley was going the same way as the vacuum tube and the Edsel, soon to be extinct, bypassed by technology, until they came up with an angle... get the government to bail you out, take all the handouts that you can, and then sell &#39;officially licensed&#39; crap at top price while fooling people into thinking that they were buying gold instead of crap.


                • #9




                  Who needs it when you have the power of marketing. Marketers can sell anything to anyone, all they need to do is find their target market. Harley found their target market; fools with too much money and not enough common sense. And Milwaukee is milking it dry for all they can grab.

                  Performance and technology; two words synonymous with America. What does America have to show the rest of the world with regard to performance and technology? America is at the top of the world for everything that is powerful, compact, and fast, from military vehicles to hand held computers to fighter jets. We put a man on the moon, we have the space shuttle, and we invented nuclear weapons and nuclear power. Everything that is performance oriented, everything that is leading edge, America has a stake in it. Everything in America is fast and powerful and has the brass to back it up anytime a challenge is made. Everything we build commands respect with the rest of the world.

                  Everything except American motorcycles. When you add Harley Davidson to that lineup above, it just kind of seems anti-climatic doesn&#39;t it. It&#39;s misplaced. So, where is America&#39;s most powerful motorcycle? Where are the muscle machines that we, as Americans, crave and love so dearly? America doesn&#39;t have one. America doesn&#39;t build a single high performance motorcycle. Not one.

                  Oh, you can point to Eric Buel, and his series of bikes, but I still say uh-uh. Not one single high performance motorcycle do we build. Why? Because we have become complacent to project our bad <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font> image through intimidation and the media, but it is a hollow image, a sheep in wolf&#39;s clothing, a overblown caricature of our real selves fueled by money and a strong desire to belong to a collective group that takes pride in calling its members &#39;individuals&#39;. We feel that if our motorcycle is loud enough, shiny enough, heavy enough, big enough, wide enough, and if the most powerful people in the world are portrayed in Hollywood and the media as owning an American motorcycle just like the one you can buy, then you must be riding the best that there is.


                  You&#39;re still the pathetic little balding, overweight, middle aged accountant married to the fat, over demanding nag that you were one second before you signed the papers on your new Harley and the ink dried. You always will be. Owning a bike isn&#39;t going to change that but this is a moral that so few people today are smart enough to comprehend! Once you crank the engine, you aren&#39;t going to change one bit, except that you will have become a slave to the media, you will have allowed yourself to willingly accept a brand association, and you will have admitted that you&#39;re a gullible fool who doesn&#39;t know the first thing about what a REAL motorcycle is.

                  Simply put, a Harley is God&#39;s way of saying that you have too much money and not enough brains.

                  I&#39;m as patriotic as the next guy, but I believe in a different kind of motorcycle for America. I believe in a true, high performance motorcycle that is American designed, built, and ridden. I believe in more than Harley Davidson, I believe in something that Harley is missing out on. I believe in American dominance over every other type and brand of motorcycle in the world. That is what America is all about, showing the rest of the world how it&#39;s done and then letting them play catch up. That&#39;s dominance gained by performance, power, and design. Not image, loudness, and the flash of chrome off of oiled leather. Dominance gained through legitimate means instead of smoke and mirrors, dominance gained through sheer power, skill and determination. Dominance gained through technological advantage and design.



                  • #10
                    [b]Why does Harley give us les

                    Why does Harley give us less?
                    We get less because we demand less and buy into the image and sacrifice the product. Your money and buuying of Harley gives Harley a vote of confidence to continue to givr you less rip off the American public.

                    Harley Davidson seems to have forgotten what motorcycling is all about. There was a time when Harley Davidson was a good bike. They built the best and the the fastest motorcycles in the world, but they became stagnant. The rest of the world started building better mousetraps than Milwaukee could. Milwaukee refused to change with the times. The rest of the world left Milwaukee behind, it happened sometime in the late &#39;60s when Harley Davidson started losing races to British and Japanese motorcycles. What did Harley do? Did they jump into research and catch up to the foreign invaders? Did they pick up the down trodden American flag and raise it high into the air again, waving it proudly in victory? When the chips were down, did they muster all that they had, pick up the pieces, and come from behind to capture the winner&#39;s cup in grand American tradition.


                    Harley did what no American would ever consider doing... They quit.

                    Harley gave up. They quit racing. When their bubble was burst, and new and faster motorcycles were entering the market, Harley simply walked away and never went racing again. Harley left the real world and gave the go ahead to European and Japanese manufacturers that America was out of the performance circle and that America was out of the game. Soon what the British and Japanese engineers were learning at the race tracks, they were applying to their brands of motorcycles, making them faster, better handlers, lighter, more durable, more reliable. Their technology was advancing by the year, with each victory, with each innovation, each design breakthrough.

                    Harley walked back to it&#39;s little corner of the world &#40;Milwaukee, USA&#41;, with it&#39;s tail between its legs and sulked. It just wasn&#39;t fair that all those mean old import bikes would beat up on something American. It just wasn&#39;t &#40;sniff, sniff&#41;, fair, darn it. So, Milwaukee took their toys and left. As the world passed Harley Davidson by, Harley just kept on beating out the same old tired, uninventive, unimaginative designs year after year like their pappy had done before them, and their grandpappy had done before that.

                    Oh, Harley could have been a dominant force in the world market, far more than they are today, but they quit. Yes, they just quit. And now they are so far behind, that America may never catch up in performance motorcycles, especially not if we have to rely on quitters like Milwaukee to heed our call for capable machines in the great international motorcycle wars.

                    I really get tired of people coming up to me and saying &#34;You need to get a real bike. You need to ride a Harley, not some damn rice burner!&#34;


                    • #11
                      [b]Most of the people who tell

                      Most of the people who tell me that don&#39;t even own a motorcycle, let alone a Harley! They&#39;re just good old boys or girls who have this ignorant notion that no motorcycle in the world is better than a Harley and since I am an American, I should be ashamed to ride anything that isn&#39;t American. Here&#39;s a shock, Sparky. Did you know that America has several really fast motorcycle racers to be proud of? Kevin Schwantz immediately stands out. Did he make his name riding domestic speed horses? No. We, as Americans, couldn&#39;t offer him a bike to ride on that would be competitive with European and Japanese models. That&#39;s a shame, a home grown racer having to sign up with European and Japanese corporations for a chance to gain glory for America. I blame Milwaukee for that, I blame the three tooth hill scoggins that work at Harley Davidson banging out the same old tired designs and who are content to sell more merchandise than actual bikes for that kind of embarrassment. Kevin gained an impressive amount of glory for America riding Suzukis. Suzukis! Not Harleys! An American out there showing the world what America was made of and he was doing it on a Japanese bike! Now folks, that is downright embarrassing from a patriotic point of view.

                      Milwaukee, you should hang your head in shame for letting down the American people the way that you have. How could you do it? Or better yet, explain to me how you could fool the whole country into believing that it was okay to quit and that you are still the number one motorcycle maker in the world. As Motorhead&#39;s song goes; &#34;Don&#39;t talk to me, I don&#39;t believe a word&#34;.

                      Well, here&#39;s some more news, Milwaukee. I don&#39;t buy bikes built by quitters. Not now, not ever. And I don&#39;t support quitters. I don&#39;t support three tooth hill scoggins who beat out tired old 60 year old designs and call it &#39;innovation&#39;. America doesn&#39;t build motorcycles, not real ones, at least. If America built a real motorcycle, I would own one. Until America builds a real American motorcycle, I&#39;ll buy my real motorcycles from other countries and manufacturers. Harley and Milwaukee are stuck in a time warp. They are building motorcycles like it was 1940 all over again. If NASA were in the same technology rut that Harley Davidson is in, Neil Armstrong would have gone to the moon launched from the world&#39;s biggest slingshot...

                      I don&#39;t buy things because they claim to be made in the US.

                      And what about Eric Buel?

                      God bless Eric Buel, for daring to quit Harley Davidson and attempt to design a true American sports bike. He saw what America needed to be competitive again and he didn&#39;t find it in Milwaukee. He had the right idea, HD is stagnant. Their latest designs still look like they were created at the end of WW II. No innovation, and why should there be. If lazy Americans will buy cobbled together rattle traps at super premium prices, why should you change the design. If fools out there will buy quartz at diamond prices, then there will always be someone out there to make a killing off of selling quartz. If America is willing to buy an image, then Milwaukee is selling. They&#39;ve got a gravy train just waiting for the next sucker with more money than common sense to buy one of their products. Harley makes more money on T-shirts and HD embossed leather wallets on a chain than from selling motorcycles. Big hint here, folks. It&#39;s all about image.

                      It sure isn&#39;t about performance, America, or glory. It&#39;s all about a canned and commercially available image. You subscribe to it with each T-shirt or accessory that you buy. That&#39;s sad, but it is another example of image and the power of the media. How many people out there have a HD emblem sticker in their truck window but don&#39;t own a HD? How many people have a HD T-shirt, but don&#39;t own the motorcycle? I


                      • #12
                        Wake up Milwaukee!
                        Even the

                        Wake up Milwaukee!
                        Even the Ninja is the bike that countless other red blooded American youths want to own, and you don&#39;t make it!

                        You don&#39;t even come close.

                        You don&#39;t stand for youth, you stand for old age and mediocrity. You stand for slow and weak when we want fast and powerful! Where do we turn to? Those who can make and sell what we want! Hear this, Milwaukee? If you made a decent sport bike like the Japanese and Italians, those of us who live in America and ride Hayabusa&#39;s, R-1200 BMW&#39;s, Valkaries, CBRs and Ninjas would probably buy it, if it was just as fast, reliable, and affordable as those that Japan offers. Supporting Japan&#39;s economy. Again, probably, but I&#39;m doing my best to correct a sixty year old mistake.

                        So you bought a Harley? Congratulations. That was about the most unpatriotic thing that you could have done. Why? Because you&#39;re helping to support a facade. You aren&#39;t doing America any good because you&#39;re sending Milwaukee a message that what they are building is just fine. You&#39;ve been sending that message for a long time now and Milwaukee is reading it loud and clear. It&#39;s time we weed out the dead wood and start over. It&#39;s time that we sent Milwaukee a new message. We want real motorcycles, not the gaudy garbage you are &#40;barely&#41; cranking out. Catch up or get out of the market because America won&#39;t tolerate quitters any more. We want real bikes like the rest of the world produces. We want to be number one again and we won&#39;t take second place as an option.

                        Eric Buel has the right idea, but he&#39;s going about it the wrong way. So, what is wrong with Eric Buel? Buel may be performance oriented, but he doesn&#39;t have a clue as to what is needed to build a true American sport bike. He&#39;s raced bikes professionally and now he wants to build an American sport bike. Great! Finally, a voice that shouts above all the others! Lend Eric Buel all the support you can! However, there is just one thing wrong with his American superbike design. He&#39;s using the wrong component in his bike and the sad thing is that component is the core of the motorcycle! His error in design is in using the Harley Davidson V-Twin engine. A tired old piece of hardware that can&#39;t keep up with today&#39;s high tech world. The HD twin is fifty or more years old! Building a American superbike using a Harley V-twin is like trying to make a really great chocolate shake when all you have to work with is premium milk and old dog do do. It just won&#39;t work, no matter how hard you blend it.

                        The only people in the world who build a decent sporting V-twin are the Japanese and the Italians. Consequently, the Japanese and the Italians are, in my opinion, the only people in the world who know how to build a decent motorcycle in the first place. The Germans build decent motorcycles but I think the Japanese and Italians are ahead in the game there. Maybe Porsche could build a decent motorcycle, but they haven&#39;t even tried. A motorcycle made by Porsche would be interesting. The French? When was the last time that the Frogs built anything worth owning? Remember Le Car and Renault? Enough said. Americans? Ha! That&#39;s what we&#39;re talking about right now! Ducati and Japan are building fast sport twins that will clip the wings of Buel&#39;s best bike on their worst of days. Eric Buel has a lot to learn, but he&#39;s doing the best that he can and you have to give him credit for not only trying in the first place, but for sticking it out this long. He&#39;s doing the best that he can with what he has to work with, which isn&#39;t much when you consider it all. His company almost went under and Harley had to buy him back out!


                        • #13
                          The American V-twin. What an

                          The American V-twin. What an overweight, underpowered waste of good material and metal. Freedom. Power. Blah. Blah. Blah. All canned pure marketing bull**** from Milwaukee&#39;s own spin doctors. The American V-Twin. The American embarrassment is more like it. This thing is a clunker, a boat anchor. It takes 1203ccs of American V-Twin to even come close to what 600ccs of Japanese in-line four can pump out for performance, and even then the 600cc &#39;rice rocket&#39; will always blow the chrome off of the Harley. We don&#39;t build anything else, just twins. No straight fours, no V-fours, no singles, nothing. Just old, outdated twins that have been around since before World War II.

                          And now, Harley is rumored to be working with the Germans, Porsche in fact, on redesigning the V-Twin engine for more power. What do the Germans know about performance? Americans teaming up with Germans for a technology boost? Well, I guess since Germany is a country about the size of the state of Georgia, and that the Germans were the first to invent rockets, jet engines, guided missiles, etc., and since most Harley riders wear German war helmets and have Iron Cross mirrors or Nazi symbols, Germany was about the only likely choice to turn to for innovation, since they were the obviously the major source for inspiration.

                          I just don&#39;t understand this ...

                          Instead of trying to come up with something on their own, Harley had to turn to the Germans!? There goes American ingenuity for you, guess you can say that Milwaukee has no new thinking, they have to get it from out of country. Talk about patriotic? You look down on me for riding a &#39;rice burner&#39;? You tell me, who started World War II first, the Germans or the Japanese? Is there any difference between riding a BMW or a Honda? What about a Porsche powered Harley? Is the term Kraut burner going to come into fashion now? People tell me that they don&#39;t own a &#39;rice burner&#39; because the Japanese attacked us at Pearl Harbor and killed some of &#39;our boys&#39;. Well, what the HELL do you think happened at Omaha Beach and Normandy? Do you think THAT was the Japanese that killed so many of &#39;our boys&#39; that it made Pearl Harbor look like a small town shooting in comparison. Yet Harley riders often pay homage to German designs, tattoos, and other paraphernalia. I find that laughable, talk about patriotic... Harley rider&#39;s logic is about as reliable as the machines they choose to ride on and that isn&#39;t saying much.


                          • #14
                            [b]Some interesting thoughts a

                            Some interesting thoughts and facts about Harley Company and the congregation of Harley buyers
                            The target buyer for Harley Davidson, if I read their ads correctly, are male overweight, middle aged, yuppies, middle age crisis baby boomers, some sexually repressed ex-cons with an abundance of tattoos, body and facial hair, and odious personal habits. They also tend to have a severe leather fetish with a passion for chains, tassels, and metal studs. The wanna be easy rider...

                            So, what does that make Harley Davidson? A Harley is the world&#39;s best selling motorized wheelchair for yuppies, hippies and wannabes, and for those who would rather buy a reputation than earn one.

                            These are just my opinions, but it explains why I don&#39;t like Harleys. I don&#39;t think that a Harley is an American bike. America stands for power, and that power is always bundled in fast, sleek, and innovative cutting edge packages. Harley stands for none of that, and it hasn&#39;t for about thirty years now.

                            So, where does that leave Harley Davidson. You can paint as many American flags as you want on the gas tanks or the helmets, but it still doesn&#39;t change what Milwaukee can&#39;t do. Milwaukee can&#39;t lead America in competition with the rest of the world. Until America builds real bikes, Americans we&#39;ll buy their real bikes from Japan and Italy and Germany.

                            I think I&#39;ve finally figured out just &#42;WHY&#42; Harley Davidson motorcycles are so popular... Harley Davidson isn&#39;t a motorcycle company, it is a cult religion. You don&#39;t ride a Harley Davidson so much as you worship it. You and every other little acolyte. A Harley Davidson is a rolling altar to mediocrity, you bend your knees and you pray to a pagan idol of chrome and leather for the pitiful life that you glean from it. That is the only way that I can see why so many people are so clueless when it comes to motorcycles. They can&#39;t stand on their own, they aren&#39;t tough enough to be individuals, so they have to reinforce their own self image with artificial constructs. Joseph Campbell would have a field day with the average Harley owner, I think that Harley Davidson is another of the &#39;masks of God&#39; that Campbell once talked about so richly, or one of the supposed nine thousand names for God.

                            Harley Davidson. It&#39;s not a motorcycle company. It is a pagan cult religion for brain dead trend humping fashion lemmings.

                            Written by Christopher T. Shields,


                            • #15
                              obsesses about steel things ca

                              obsesses about steel things called &#34;harley&#34;...O.K....I&#39;ve made notes about that.

                              is this a way to disguise your dislike for hell&#39;s angel&#39;s types without getting harassed by them?

                              because if you I just wanted to say that they are already harassing me for a couple of other cult&#39;s in the area i live.

                              have you heard of a cult/criminal group called the Peckerwoods?
                              probably due to their criminal reputations you haven&#39;t.

                              if you want information i can tell you what the local annoyance officer told me.

                              they are the ones who do the Harley riders night time crime on bicycles, and going through people&#39;s houses when they are sleeping.

                              ask me more, and i&#39;ll tell you what i have found out. just in case the harley guys decide they want to get even or something ludicrous like that...good luck