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  • #16
    Originally posted by dodge View Post
    Hi Ba2 -- Very good points you make about the economy and the factors that led up to the current debt; and also that Easeltine just hates the President, which is pretty obvious. He represents the extreme Christian right with all the usual talking points, anything that negatively affects Barack Obama even though it isnít true or the facts are spun to make it look like something its not. Political propaganda, itís what they do. Oh well, some things never change.
    Few people really understand economic theory. The average person thinks that running a government is like managing a household budget or like running a business. There is no comparison. If we ran our government like our house or business, we would become third world before we knew what hit us. A few people would have all the money and power, and everyone else would be their serfs.

    I donít understand the hatred for Obama. Like blaming him for our economic problems when it clearly started before he was in office, or continually suggesting he wasnít born in Hawaii, or that he is Muslim. I have heard people state, with conviction, that he hates America and is trying to destroy it. Yes, I do think he could have done better, but with the hand he was dealt, he certainly could have done worse. It might simply be political propaganda but I tend to believe this is actually pure and simple bigotry.


    • #17
      All things being equal, I too would prefer presidents with a background as governor. It seems to be a better preparation for the job. However, not all governors have the same responsibility; it really depends on the laws and constitution of the particular state. In Wisconsin, we have a governor who probably has the most authority of any governor in the country. Very powerful position. This also means that the governor can really screw things up, as can be demonstrated by the push for unprecedented changes creating a very hostile and divisive environment in Wisconsin, which is normally a very easy place for members of either party to get along and work together.

      Yes, president Clinton could work with Congress, and yes, president Obama has trouble with Congress. But I would say that anyone near the center, whether Democrat or Republican, would have trouble with this group, especially the House. I agree that the stimulus package in Feb of 2009 was not properly done. This was a Bush/Cheney plan which should have been totally rewritten by Obama. I blame Obama for not making the necessary changes. The Senate Republicans wanted changes but the House Republicans wanted nothing. They killed the opportunity for a good compromise. They wanted nothing and refused to negotiate. When a group refuses to compromise, which is what good legislating is all about, we end up with either nothing or an extreme.

      I think Romney will be our next president. I hope we can replace the radical members of the House so that Romney can do a proper job. If the House remains intact, we will see nothing from Romney and he too will be a one term president and the economy will suffer.


      • #18
        Truth in all matters Obama done much of what I think He thought he could accomplish though it was perhaps not everything. Meaning the working with other parties is a plus. HOwever what about next term. Four years not knowing you going to be in office again. Now what is Obama plans to cause change and how that is the concern of many.


        • #19
          Four years ago the candidate that I wanted the most as President was Governor Romney. Governor Romney had experience as Governor of Mass., and knew how to work with Democrats. The Governor was a little bit Right of Senator McCain, but not much.

          Senator McCain, the person I voted for President, is a Moderate Republican that has proven experience working with Democrats. His set-up of the Gang of 14 to stop the nuclear option was a perfect example of that. He negotiated with Democrats, had only a 68% Pro-Life voting record, because has always been anti-abortion and pro stem cell research. NARAL undeservedly gave him a 0% out of a 100. I knew where he came from watching him in the 1988 Presidential Convention, (the speech on his friend in the Hanoi Hilton follow by people joining the Senator in the Pledge of Allegience). I knew that the Senator loved America, and would put better people to deal with the economy and negotiate more with the other side than President Obama.

          Sec. of State Clinton was too Left for me, however, she would have negotiated more with Republicans, and had White House experience as being First Lady. President Clinton would always be there to be a helpful advise giver.

          Then there was President Obama:

          A history of being on the Left. Chicago Community Organizer with friends that were former SDS members. A questionable past, even his name is Muslim. Always a Partisan Democrat, who never has known how to negotiate with the other side to come up with good sensible solutions to problems. Very little experience in Government, a Freshman Senator. An unqualified person, that had different viewpoints on every issue that I have.

          I am not Far-Right enough to oppose Senator McCain, or Far-Right enough to think that Governor Romney is a "Progressive."
          That is what a Far-Right person really thinks. I will have no problem voting for Governor Romney, I will not have to hold my nose, rather happily vote for a person that will be able to come up with solutions from both sides of the aisle, not a Partisan Hack ~ like Rahm Emmanuel comment of having a window of opportunity ~ to me he means a lot in that statement that I OPPOSE. Some of what I OPPOSE has already been OPPOSED AND WILL be OPPOSED by those Justices considered to be on the LEFT in the Supreme Court. Two cases against the Obama Administration 0-9, and there will be a few coming up here that will be opposed also.

          I think that all Nine Supreme Court Justices are Right of the Obama Administration - because they will all support the Constitution.
          Last edited by easeltine; 04-27-2012, 03:00 PM.


          • #20
            Originally posted by easeltine View Post
            ...Then there was President Obama:

            A history of being on the Left. Chicago Community Organizer with friends that were former SDS members. A questionable past, even his name is Muslim. Always a Partisan Democrat...
            You are probably referring to Bill Ayers: “A retired professor in the College of Education at the University of Illinois at Chicago, formerly holding the titles of Distinguished Professor of Education and Senior University Scholar.” Ayers also worked closely with the Mayor's office in Chicago.

            The top contributors to Obama have been the banks and Wall Street. He surrounded himself with advisors with strong Wall Street connections.

            In post #6 you stated: “I contend that the Obama Administration's solution and goal is to change this country into a Communist Dictatorship...”

            If that were true, why would he surround himself with advisors from Wall Street? Why would the banking industry support him?

            He certainly is left of anyone in the Republican Party, but to suggest he is pushing for a Communist Dictatorship is pretty farfetched.

            What is he specifically doing that makes you believe he is a Communist?

            You keep bringing up the word “Muslim” when you talk about Obama. His mother is a Christian from Kansas. Before he was three, his parents were separated and divorced, never living within 1000 miles of each other. Obama stayed with his mother. Mother remarried a man from Jakarta and he lived there from age 6 to 10. There he attended a public school for a short time but mostly attended a private Christian school. At age 10, he returned to the USA to live with his maternal grandparents, who were Christian. In Chicago, as you know, he attended a Christian church which he separated relations with because of some controversial statements made by the pastor, which is exactly what one would have wanted him to do. It seems that he attended Christian churches for his entire life.

            Why do you keep bringing up the word “Muslim”?

            You complain that he is a partisan Democrat. Aren’t you a partisan Republican?

            I understand a desire to have one's favorite politician and party members get elected. But we somehow have to get away from the hatred spewing out of the extreme factions of the parties. Somehow, we must all come to understand that our president does not hate our country, quite the contrary. Our president, all presidents, want what is best for the country. The direction they take may be different than what we would prefer, but I truly don't believe we have ever had a president that didn't love America, including our present president. If both sides could start with that premise, then maybe we could all talk.


            • #21
              Obama was born in Hawaii 1961 one year after Hawaii became a state. This brought about contraversy. Because Hawaii only was a state for 1 year. The issue is what kind of rule was Hawaii under before it became a US state. Is Hawaii trying to take over the US or is socialism ideas in government from life overseas. Now with that said. OUr nation is founded on principals of freedom and freedom to think. Thank God it was. However not all Presidents ideas were passable why. Cause republicans won't back him, no, because he himself worked under a republican president as a CIA agent. His advantage in politics is knowing what goes on behind the scenes. If man says go to Him, he knows that he better go, however agents sleeping around during a business trip is dangerous. Poor work and sloppy. True they were on their time off, but here the thing they were on foreign soil, meaning they really had no time off. Are we that confortable with who are nation is that we let our guard down. No, King Solomon men would of done the exact same thing. Weird isn't it. However no information that Solomon went on a business trip like Obama did but we know many foreign dignitaries include Queen of Sheba to see him and seen his wealth.
              Last edited by turtle; 04-27-2012, 07:32 PM.


              • #22
                Hi Turtle,
                Do you really think being Hawaiian is any sort of controversy? Hawaii became a territory in 1898 with a provisional government designed as a Democracy that would eventually become a state of the USA. This was understood in 1889. Hawaiians saw themselves as Americans well before statehood in 1959. Much of the SW was part of Mexico and Alaska was once part of Russia. Should we question their loyalty?

                President Bush Sr. was the head of the CIA before becoming Vice and then President. No problems there.

                As far as the sex scandal, yes, they do have free personal time when they are on foreign soil, nevertheless, at least three officers have already been fired. I agree this is shameful, but this sort of thing has been going on throughout history. I personally know of Russian attempts to provide young attractive women to traveling American businessmen and even military personnel. They did it to gain some favor. It probably worked. Not everyone accepted, but many did. I would hope our security was not compromised. I donít think it was. Manís weakness. Maybe it could be better controlled but, I donít see how this could be stopped. In Vietnam, prostitution was absolutely prevalent and condoned by the officers. There even were attempts by the North to entice Americans to defect, with a promise of very attractive girls. I saw the flyers. Fortunately, I donít know anyone that took them seriously or would even consider them.


                • #23
                  ba2, most people would advertise the history of hawaii, to prove a point money wins always despite what little man thinks or wants or number of little people. That always a given, however when it comes to blood and death if there is enough it can do something else it can cause a war. With technology people are able to network. Netowrk quite well. So hold on to your hat. This saga is not over, until the fat lady sings. Oh yeah she did didn't she. What did she sing Oh How He Loves YOu and Me. God loves us and if your on God's side money to God is more then a thousand cows in a field for He owns the whole world and will He can bring earthquakes, tornadoes and so forth.

                  By the way what do you mean the North did not believe me, what have you heard?


                  • #24
                    Ba2 says,

                    "You keep bringing up the word “Muslim” when you talk about Obama. His mother is a Christian from Kansas. Before he was three, his parents were separated and divorced, never living within 1000 miles of each other. Obama stayed with his mother. Mother remarried a man from Jakarta and he lived there from age 6 to 10. There he attended a public school for a short time but mostly attended a private Christian school. At age 10, he returned to the USA to live with his maternal grandparents, who were Christian. In Chicago, as you know, he attended a Christian church which he separated relations with because of some controversial statements made by the pastor, which is exactly what one would have wanted him to do. It seems that he attended Christian churches for his entire life.

                    Why do you keep bringing up the word “Muslim”?"



                    • #25
                      I'm going to give you an example of the Obama Administration practicing government in a Dictatorship manner.

                      Speaker Pelosi made the comment when the House voted on Obamacare, "We will have to pass it to see what is in it."

                      That implies to me that: 1. Speaker Pelosi asked to see the Bill, and they told her they didn't have it finished. 2. Speaker Pelosi wanted to put input in Obamacare and they did not want her input. 3. That Speaker Pelosi was told to tell the Democrats to vote on Obamacare, even though these experienced, many of them lawyers, had not read the Bill.

                      Justice Kagen brought up the obvious question from the Liberal standpoint regarding the Healthcare Mandate, basically, "If I were a single mother and not able to pay for Health Insurance, would I not be a Felon, since I was breaking Federal Law." The answer is obvious that the person would be breaking Federal Law.

                      I say that Speaker Pelosi would have been able to catch that if the Obama Administration would have allowed her input, and had allowed the Democrats in the House to read the Bill before voting on it. The young punk Czar that wrote the Bill did not even consider the obvious questions that an experienced person would have.


                      • #26
                        Considering I have not read anything really on the healthcare thing I like the joke, however what I heard on it from the media is with obama care they were suppose to be federal aid for working parents that did not make enough money for health insurance. However what happens to those that can't afford it for adults. They have to care for those kids. Kids get sick nine times out of ten the whole family gets sick even with extra hand washing. Why, will kids lay in the living not in bed to get well, Curl up on the same couch, and wipe their snot on the couch or pillow not meaning too. parent comes lays on that same couch to watch evening tv. Yet those germs on the couch plus breathing them well two days later guess who sick. Then parent gets rid of it but the kid drinks from the water fountain at school that has not aquit water pressure so their mouth almost on top of the fountain where the water flows. Some comes by pushes and well germs. YOu no the scenerio. However the point is what exactly. Oh yeah healthcare. improvements maybe but when it trickles down to thousand will it work. Time will tell. Clinton healthcare great idea one primary physicians, but in truth, it backfired. The Issue will it work. That another issue.


                        • #27
                          President Obama's Christianity

                          President Obama went 20 years to Trinity United Church of Christ, when he went to that Church Jeremiah Wright was the minister. Everybody is fairly aware that Reverend Wright taught Black Liberation Theology.

                          Black Liberation Theology is not mainline Christian Theology.

                          What most people are not aware of is that the denomination, "The United Church of Christ," is a very liberal denomination that condones homosexuality, and does not believe that the Bible is the Innerrant Word of God as most Christians understand the concept of the word.

                          The United Church of Christ has Open Communion, Agreements completed, with the following Liberal Churches that condone practicing Homosexual Pastors:

                          Disciples of Christ, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Presbyterian USA, and Reformed Church in America.


                          If you study these denominations, including The United Church of Christ, one will find that they are not Christian in the correct sense of the word, rather New Age churches. I stand with the Roman Catholic Church against those churches beliefs, and I am a Protestant.


                          • #28
                            As far as the church being liberal I don't know. However if most churches would actually read the issue on homosexuality as state in Romans it consider a vile affection. HOwever one has to remember who is writing here. However all unrighteous is like filthy rags and if we look at the list in these verses, most of us have at least gossiped at sometime and spoke without causes without knowing facts. Now if you going to pick on homosexuals we need to pick on all sin include law breakers and drunkers.

                            Romans 1:18-32 KJV
                            (18) For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
                            (19) Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
                            (20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
                            (21) Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
                            (22) Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
                            (23) And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
                            (24) Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
                            (25) Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
                            (26) For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
                            (27) And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
                            (28) And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
                            (29) Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
                            (30) Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
                            (31) Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
                            (32) Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

                            Now if all unrighteousness is but filthy rags

                            Isaiah 64:5-12 KJV
                            (5) Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, those that remember thee in thy ways: behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned: in those is continuance, and we shall be saved.
                            (6) But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
                            (7) And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.
                            (8) But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.
                            (9) Be not wroth very sore, O LORD, neither remember iniquity for ever: behold, see, we beseech thee, we are all thy people.
                            (10) Thy holy cities are a wilderness, Zion is a wilderness, Jerusalem a desolation.
                            (11) Our holy and our beautiful house, where our fathers praised thee, is burned up with fire: and all our pleasant things are laid waste.
                            (12) Wilt thou refrain thyself for these things, O LORD? wilt thou hold thy peace, and afflict us very sore?

                            Who? can save us from sin and death, Thank who?

                            Romans 8:1-4 KJV
                            (1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
                            (2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
                            (3) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
                            (4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

                            Truth of the matter we all sin and homosexuality is consider a sin based on the fact the God created adam and eve to what procreate. However state of sin of our nation ranks when homosexuality becomes prominent why because no reproductions means a lost generation of people. However is it anymore sinful then gossip. What is the gay agenda to anilate or reproduce.

                            Let continue homosexual in itself God just left alone, why? Why does God leave all sin alone, because He is a Holy God. Yet because of the shed blood of Jesus despite our filthiness, God still redeemed us and cleansed us from all unrighteousness. Does it mean we can go about sinning by no means, Jesus told the man in John 5 to go and sin no more. However when someone caught in sin, until Christ enters their heart a change can not take place. Second thing when a person receives Christ nine time out of ten that change of homosexually might not be that same time. One has to recognize it has sin first. Until that happens will it not sin, in a person's eyes.

                            So back to the issue of obama and his church and liberal views. Obama may believe homosexual is wrong, but he is choosing to be a politician and give those that disagree with His faith what a choice. Is that liberal. No, for He doing exactly the same as what God would do. People want to make a nation holy by their standards. Meaning wanting to cause everyone to be like them, however who does homosexual hurt, if they are required by law to keep the same moral obligations as same sex marriage does. It hurts only them and their relationship with God. Can homosexual have a relataionship with God. One might ask can a straight married couple that gossip have a relationship with God. Did God speak to baalam. Did God send an angel to talk to Mary, Samson mother (can't think of her name.) Did God at anytime talk directly to woman since the garden. Not in the way God has spoken to man. Is woman equal at the time of Christ it put woman and man equal. For woman even sat at the feet of Jesus when he spoke. However God always spoke to both man and women's hearts.

                            Obama had catholic training as a child did he leave that teaching? Okay I don't and neither does any other american know the heart of Obama. What you do know his background but ministers can change in a pulpit over time as well. All influences does not make it true. It still a heart matter and no one but God sees that. However to be linked to groups that are not safe that is crazy. It be better to do away with meeting with certain orgs and congregate people in mass forum and allow each group to ask their own question concerning the obama plans. Oh yeah they have that it called meet the press conference or public assembly.

                            What your beef is that you feel Obama is using his beliefs to influence in decisions as president. No it not issue, but it can be. See abortion proof that it is killing life, influenced by religious advocates to knock down killing of babies. Yet at the same other still see abortion is right individual because at what point is the fetus actually human or able to rationalize. Yet it still killing a baby. Where is the line drawn in the right to life US advocates. We sure do not advocate suicide. However some in politics might. And if they have high influence in politics it gets passed in odd places like authenization. Consider this if it is happening it against a law. Prosecution is necessary for orgs that would. People jailed. Or is correction better, because all people make mistakes in what they say. Who would not be in jail.


                            • #29
                              However does Obama religious views influence his out take positive. Yes of course. But it not the only factor.


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by easeltine View Post
                                ...IN FACT I HAVE NEVER BROUGHT UP THE WORD "MUSLIM" IN ANY OF MY ABOVE POSTS THAT I CAN SEE. The President is not a Muslim.
                                You used the term when referring to him in post 6 and 19. You may not specifically call him a Muslim, but you make the connection.