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Cleary from the statement, the Canadians don't want to move to the American system. The American system is totally out of control and needs an overhaul.
Now you say they are two separate issues. Obviously you have to believe in polygenism before you could believe in the Satan/Eve thing. But polygenism in simple term is nothing more but the belief that manking sprung up from multiple ancestral types. Yes, the issue has been discussed as far back as the Middle Ages and no, there was never any consensus (not even a minor one) that Satan had sex with Eve. That being said, throughout time, people have inferred all sorts of ridiculous things from the bible and the Catholic church was one of the greatest culprits. Fortunately, the church is not as it was. And many of us have moved away from the silly superstitions and literal beliefs contrary to scientific reasoning. But there will always be the gullible who will swallow just about any lamebrain belief brought on by either the psychotic or professional huckster and sometimes perpetuated by the well meaning victims of mind control.
The idea that the seduction of Eve has been discussed in a monastery and that there was a website discussing it is meaningless. Look at all the weird things discussed at factnet. Do you believe all of them? Of course not. And I don’t believe your interpretation of the bible either.
What President Obama said was that “the Canadian model works for Canada. It would not work for the United States, in part simply because we’ve evolved differently. We have an employer-based system and a private-based health care system that stands side-by-side with Medicare and Medicaid and our Veterans Administration health care system. And so, we’ve got to develop a uniquely American approach to this problem.”
At a press converence with Canadian Prime Minister Harper and Mexican President Calderon, President Obama said “I suspect you Canadians will continue to get dragged in by those who oppose reform, even though I’ve said nothing about Canadian health care reform. I don’t find Canadians particularly scary, but I guess some of the opponents of reform think that they make a good boogeyman. I think that’s a mistake.”
The President also said that once Congress comes back in the fall and people are able to look at the actual legislation that is being proposed that a “more sensible and reasoned” argument will start to take over and then reform will be passed this year.”
Demonizing the Canadian health care system is one of the current talking points that right wing Republican mouthpieces are involved in, following their idols Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter and Michelle Malkin. This is a distraction. The real issue is access to quality health care for everyone, not just the wealthy. People who have worked all of their lives should not have to lose all of their savings trying to pay medical bills resulting from major illness or injuries. All of this right wing rhetoric about socialism, communism, and comparing our President to Hitler is only partisan fear tactics.
Now, if you'll excuse me I'm going for a bike ride.
"What President Obama said was that “the Canadian model works for Canada. It would not work for the United States, in part simply because we’ve evolved differently. We have an employer-based system and a private-based health care system that stands side-by-side with Medicare and Medicaid and our Veterans Administration health care system. And so, we’ve got to develop a uniquely American approach to this problem.”
I heard that before, and "uniquely" is the keyword there. Uniquely, is:
To ram it down the throats of Americans, no matter what they think of the bill.
Not bothering to read the bill themselves before voting for it, like the stimulus and omnibus bills before it.
Not allowing any bipartisan proceedings othert than a few political window dressing meetings.
Stuffing the bill with earmarks, supporting immoral actions such as abortion, (rather an here in Louisiana, where the governor signed a bill allowing halthcare workers opposes to abortion to step aside from any such procedures without penalty from their employers).
I also see the White House has allegedly backed off the government option, but it ain't over, I don't trust them enough to thinks so.
"Demonizing the Canadian health care system is one of the current talking points that right wing Republican mouthpieces are involved in, following their idols Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter and Michelle Malkin. This is a distraction."
No it's not, it is an honest comparison, as is with the nonsense with the health care system in the UK.
But I suppose it isn't a distraction to listen to the Daily Kos, the Huffington Post, Salon, and other "blame Bush, evil conservatives, forever and for anything and everything" outlets.
"That being said, throughout time, people have inferred all sorts of ridiculous things from the bible and the Catholic church was one of the greatest culprits. Fortunately, the church is not as it was. And many of us have moved away from the silly superstitions and literal beliefs contrary to scientific reasoning."
"Scientific reasoning" is often described as 'Humanism'.
I see that you had no rebuttal to the textual references to the nephilim mating with women, and references to their offspring.
Were it not for those references and attendent evidence, I may not have put much stock into it either.
As see your bias against the Church in your posts, so I advise you to take your emotions out of the discussion, unless you want to continue to say silly things.
If you can squeeze it in between all the books you are reading and the bike path, read this:
The Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN, is a tool of organized labor to create the political environment in which "social change" is possible. Its preferred type of social change comes in the form of government-run healthcare, increased unionization and increased government spending as a cure to society's ills.
In other words, ACORN is a leader in America's slouch towards socialism.
On this site, we explore ACORN's funding sources, its connections to the 2008 election, its proposed policies and partisan agenda, its success at extorting money from corporate America that would make Al Capone blush and what’s next on the organization's agenda.
In the words of two former ACORN employees, “It is due time that tax payers get a full accounting of how their money is being spent and that organizations such as these are held accountable for their actions.”
Even the New York Times has given due scrutiny to ACORN and its activities. But the majority in the U.S. Congress is looking the other way.
What are our elected leaders covering up? Congressman John Conyers (D-MI) said in March 2009 he would launch a probe into ACORN’s activities, but reversed course in June and told the Washington Times “the powers that be decided against it.” Thus, no probe—no airing of just what ACORN has been up to.
Perhaps Conyers’ committee already knew what it was going to hear: ACORN’s “mob-style” tactics exposed!
This site is a work in progress. It will continue to closely monitor as ACORN attempts to push its agenda of government-run healthcare, the danger of its participation in the 2010 census, and other activities.
Looks like the AARP is in favor of the President’s health care reform bill.
“Americans will no longer settle for a health care system that costs too much, wastes too much, and leaves too many without care. At this crucial moment, we have the opportunity of a lifetime - to fix our broken health care system. President Obama has promised health reform before the end of the year - but we need to make sure that Congress follows through.”
AARP is asking its members to sign a petition with the wording “Our current health care system costs too much, wastes too much, makes too many mistakes and gives us back too little value for our money. Skyrocketing health costs are forcing millions of Americans to choose between paying for health care or food, housing, and other necessities. In fact, millions of Americans are just one medical emergency away from bankruptcy and financial ruin.”
It goes on to say “With so many people looking at their health care premiums nearly doubling in the next 10 years, the time for action on health reform is NOW. America needs you to take action to ensure that everyone has a choice of health care they can afford. I urge you to commit to working on a bipartisan basis to pass legislation that will provide all Americans with affordable health care choices and strengthen Medicare and improve long-term care services.”
As a member of AARP, I couldn’t agree more, and will be signing this petition.
President Obama wrote an op-ed piece in today's New York Times where he explains clearly what the health care reform bill is designed to accomplish.
In it, the President explains that:
“First, if you don’t have health insurance, you will have a choice of high-quality, affordable coverage for yourself and your family--coverage that will stay with you whether you move, change your job or lose your job.”
“Second, reform will finally bring skyrocketing health care costs under control, which will mean real savings for families, businesses and our government. We’ll cut hundreds of billions of dollars in waste and inefficiency in federal health programs like Medicare and Medicaid and in unwarranted subsities to insurance companies that do nothing to improve care and everything to improve their profits.”
Third, by making Medicare more efficient, we’ll be able to ensure that more tax dollars go directly to caring for seniors instead of enriching insurance companies. This will not only help provide today’s seniors with the benefits they’ve been promised; it will also ensure the long-term health of Medicare for tomorrow’s seniors. And our reforms will also reduce the amount our seniors pay for their prescription drugs.”
“Lastly, reform will provide every American with some basic consumer protections that will finally hold insurance companies accountable. A 2007 national survey actually shows that insurance companies discriminated against more than 12 million Americans in the previous three years because they had a pre-existing illness or condition. The companies either refused to cover the person, refused to cover a specific illness or condition or charged a higher premium.”
“We will put an end to these practices. Our reform will prohibit insurance companies from denying coverage because of your medical history. Nor will they be allowed to drop your coverage because of your medical history. Nor will they be allowed to drop your coverage if you get sick. They will not be able to water down your coverage when you need it most. They will no longer be able to place some arbitrary cap on the amount of coverage you can receive in a given year or in a lifetime. And we will place a limit on how much you can be charged for out-of-pocket expenses. No one in America should go broke because they get sick.”
“This is what reform is about. If you don’t have health insurance, you will finally have quality, affordable options once we pass reform. If you have health insurance, we will make sure that no insurance company or government bureaucrat gets between you and the care you need. If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan. You will not be waiting in any lines. This is not about putting the government in charge of your health insurance. I don’t believe anyone should be in charge of your health care decisions but you and your doctor--not government bureaucrats, not insurance companies.”
Sounds good, Mr. President, I'm behind you all the way.
..."Scientific reasoning" is often described as 'Humanism'...
One should not try to defend their faith with arguments that are so patently opposed to reason that the faith is made to look ridiculous.
I see that you had no rebuttal to the textual references to the nephilim mating with women, and references to their offspring.
Were it not for those references and attendent evidence, I may not have put much stock into it either....
In yesterday’s CNN “Political Ticker,” it was revealed that Dr. J. James Rohack, president of the American Medical Association and John Rother, executive VP of policy and strategy for AARP, said that a comprehensive overhaul of the nation’s health care system is necessary.
Appearing on Fox News Sunday, Dr. Rohack and John Rother both rejected accusations that a health-care overhaul would bring rationing of health treatment based on bureaucratic measures such as cost and economic productivity of patients. Rohack said, “There’s a myth that rationing doesn’t occur right now,” noting that pregnancy can currently be denied for some health insurance coverage as a “pre-existing condition.” He said “That’s why this bill is so important. It gets rid of rationing happening right now,” and leaves decisions to patients and doctors.
Rother said that the “health-care overhaul will bring huge cost savings by eliminating waste and fraud in the system, including the Medicare program for senior citizens.” “We don’t see rationing in this plan. What we see are efficiencies that are going to improve care, not deny care.”
Rohack condemned claims by some Republicans that a provision in the bill before the House would lead to so-called “death panels,” encouraging euthanasia of senior citizens. Repeated spreading of the false “death panel” rumor by conservative commentators and some Republican politicians prompted emotional opposition at town hall meetings across the country. Senate negotiators on a compromise bill say that they dropped the provision from their proposal due to potential misinterpretation intent.
That the American Medical Association and AARP both support the health care reform bill is significant, and is a major rebuke of the Republican disinformation campaign.
You're wasting my time Dodge. The AARP does NOT support the bill:
(CNSNews.com) - The AARP, the nation’s largest advocacy group for seniors, corrected a statement by President Barack Obama yesterday that indicated the group was “endorsing” the health-care plan being developed in Congress
During a town hall forum in Portsmouth, N.H., Obama tried to downplay growing unrest among seniors concerned about their Medicare benefits and a provision that would pay for end-of-life counseling in the health care reform packages being developed by Congress. In this context, Obama said AARP is “on board” with the plan and was “endorsing” it.
“We have the AARP on board because they know this is a good deal for our seniors,” Obama said at one point.
“Well, first of all, another myth that we've been hearing about is this notion that somehow we're going to be cutting your Medicare benefits. We are not,” Obama said later. “AARP would not be endorsing a bill if it was undermining Medicare, okay?”
AARP Chief Operating Officer Tom Nelson issued a statement saying that the organization has not endorsed any legislation.
“While the President was correct that AARP will not endorse a health care reform bill that would reduce Medicare benefits, indications that we have endorsed any of the major health care reform bills currently under consideration in Congress are inaccurate,” Nelson said."
I already noted this Dodge, if you can't follow the discussion, then don't try.
Plus you are not telling the whole truth by claiming the AMA is in full support of the bill:
Physicians, including AMA members, are split over healthcare reform and the AMA’s move to endorse the House bill last month sparked complaints. In a document distributed recently to its members and published on its website, the AMA asserts it “will continue to work with members of the House of Representatives to improve the bill.”
Though the measure includes $240 billion worth of increased Medicare payments for doctors, it also would create a government-run “public option” insurance program that would compete with private insurers, a prospect that unnerves healthcare providers worried the government will not pay them enough for their services.
The document also seeks to reassure members that the AMA does not support nationalized health insurance, outlawing private insurance or mandatory end-of-life counseling, giving bureaucrats the authority to dictate what treatments a doctor prescribes or rationing care."
I also said few would deny the system in this current state needs reform, but the government taking it over is NOT the way to do it, and many concur.
Are you paying any attention at all?
You're wasting my time Dodge. The AARP does NOT support the bill...
...Are you paying any attention at all?
Are you paying any attention at all?
Oh yeah, I sure do pay attention, and all you have done is agree with me:
"I belong to AARP and maybe they don't specifically endorse Obama's plan"..
Bingo, because Dodge said: "That the American Medical Association and AARP both support the health care reform bill is significant..."
And since YOU have not paid attention, I have said twice now that few doubt that reform isn't needed, but taking over the system by forcing private insurance out of business isn't the solution.
And looks like the polls are placing you in a minority, a growing one.
As for the AARP, they are LIBERAL:
Just Google AARP liberal and you'll get a heck of a lot more.
I made a mistake saying that the AARP “is in favor of the President’s health care reform bill,” because of the quote that I read from their “Health Action Now” webpage. It said, in a petition, “President Obama has promised health reform before the end of the year, but we need to make sure that Congress follows through.”
I interpretated that as them being in favor of Obama’s health care reform bill. It seemed to me that by saying “we need to make sure that Congress follows through,” right after “President Obama has promised health reform by the end of the year,” this was saying that AARP is in favor of the health reform initiative.
It is true that John Rother, executive director of policy and strategy for AARP, said that “health care costs too much. There’s too much waste.“ Rother went on to say that “We have to keep the system more efficient and at the same time bring more people in. That’s what this legislation’s trying to do.” He also said that the first thing that has to be acknowledged is “that many people, even on Medicare, can’t afford the care available to them today, particularly…in prescription drugs.” So it is clear that AARP is defending health-care reform. I acknowledge my error and should have said that the “the AARP is in favor of health care reform,” which I think cannot be denied.
Everyone mispeaks from time to time, like you Smyrna. You claimed that the health care reform bill will “force private insurance out of business.” In an August 6 piece on CBS News called “10 Health Care Reform Myths,” number 2 is “Americans Will Lose Their Private Insurance.” It says that there is a “prevalent conservative talking point that the proposed government-sponsored health insurance plan, or ‘public opion,’ could drive private insurers out of business and that millions of Americans would lose their current health insurance.” This article reveals this to be a myth started by nine Senate Republicans in a letter, which cited a study by the Lewin Group. “The bill does not force private insurers out of business or force people onto the public plan.”
FactCheck.org agrees in their “Seven Falsehoods About Health Care.”
It also cites the Investor’s Buisness Daily editorial that claimed H.R. 3200 would make private insurance illegal. This is not true, and the article goes on to say that the new health insurance exchange would offer a range of private plans. “Those who were already buying their own insurance before the bill went into effect, about 14 million Americans, will have their plans grandfathered in.” This national health insurance exchange would resemble the Federal Employee Health Benefits plan, which makes 269 different private plans available to federal workers.
The National Multiple Sclerosis Society also has a list of health care reform myths, and Myth 2 is “Health care reform will put private insurance companies out of business.” They say that the Congressional Budget Office (CBO), Congress’ nonpartisan budget analyst, “has analyzed the House health care reform plan and found that it will not force out private insurers, contradicting one of the chief criticisms of health care reform.” They say that “The vast majority of uninsured Americans will move into some private health insurance plan either offered by their employer or purchased by them in the new health insurance marketplace created by the reform legislation.”
The AARP also considers this a myth, answering a question “Will private insurance be outlawed or wither on the vine? Their answer is “No.” “Opponents of the public option, including the health insurance industry, contend that it would ultimately destroy private insurance because the government could offer lower payment rates to doctors and hospitals, as Medicare now does.” AARP explains where this myth came from.
Media Matters goes through all of this too, and debunks the myth that “a public insurance plan could spell the end of private insurance companies.”
It relates how Conservatives for Patients’ Rights published a misleading ad, because “that’s not the type of public plan President Obama has proposed.” They were only quoting claims made by insurance companies and members of Congress.
So, as you can see, it is a myth created by Republicans and insurance companies that the health care reform bill will drive private insurance companies out of business; and the only ones who are continuing to make this claim are adversaries using conservative talking points in disinformation campaigns. We all make mistakes, Smyrna.
Smyrna, when you quote me you should at least quote the entire sentence. “…maybe they don't specifically endorse Obama's plan, but they sure are supportive of reform. Including a single payer system…” I think I know where the AARP stands. If it came to a vote, they would suggest its members vote for Obama’s plan. I think they hold back on endorsement because it doesn’t go far enough. You think our system just needs a few tweeks. I, along with the AARP thinks it needs a complete overhaul. I gave you a link which should indicate where they stand www.healthactionnow.org/ so now you simply dismiss them as some "liberal" organization. 40 million members should not be taken lightly.
Have you ever spent time in Europe? Have you ever really discussed health care with citizens of Canada or England or any other country in the European Union? You probably listen to Daniel Hannan from the British Parliament on Fox News blasting the British Health Care and you think he represents the British people in these views. Until now, the Brits had no idea Mr Hannan was blasting their health care system, now he is being blasted by members of this own right wing party and especially by the general public for his remarks. Many are suggesting his remarks are treasonous.
I am not suggesting we adopt Britain’s single payer system, although I see it as much better than ours (life expectancy is higher and infant death rate is lower). But we clearly need to make drastic changes. The idea of public health was pursued by President Roosevelt (not FDR) so this is not something we are quickly jumping into. As far as health care goes, virtually no one in Europe or Canada would want to trade places with us. But the likes of Fox News would try to lead you to believe otherwise.
BTW: you accuse me and others of not keeping on the topic of the thread, but you keep bringing it back. You also accused me of avoiding one sentence in your post. I apologize for missing what I thought was an insignificant point in your argument. But you do that all the time to me and others. I would like to think none of us do that intentionally. I do try to address everything asked, but sometimes in these long posts it becomes difficult to focus.
PolitiFact.com wrote that “Palin ‘death panel’ claim sets Truth-O-Meter ablaze.” They read and studied the health care reform bill, examined versions in various committees, and say that “there is no panel in any version of the health care bills in Congress that judges a person’s ‘level of productivity in society’ to determine whether he or she is ‘worthy’ of health care.” PolitFact went on to say that this claim is similar to another lie, which says that health care reform would mandate counseling for seniors on how to end their lives sooner. Both of these claims are judged “pants on fire” lies.
People believe the most outrageous lies, and those that perpetuate them all seem to have a web page, a blog or Facebook entry, that allows them to Google their way to so-called “evidence” that backs up their conspiracy theory or their belief, in this case the non-existant “evils of Obamacare.” Because of this, there are people out there who believe that the President’s health care refrom bill will pay for illegal aliens’ health care, sex change operations, and abortions on demand. Leading Republicans, such as House Minority Leader John Boehner, are part of this politcally-motivated web of disinformation and lies. Boehner said in an op-ed piece that the health care reform bill “will require Americans to subsidize abortion with their hard-earned tax dollars.”
PolitiFact found this to be a false claim, because of an amendment in a key version of the House plan “that specificially seeks to ensure that federal funds are not used to subsidize abortion coverage.” It also debunked another piece of politically/religiously-motivated disinformation that Liberty Counsel, affiliated with Liberty University School of Law (an evangelical Christian school founded by Jerry Falwell), being circulated about a provision in the health care reform bill that would “establish school-based health clinics.” “Your children will be indoctrinated and your grandchildren may be aborted!” This was proved to be another “pants on fire” lie, designed to frighten and anger people into taking action against the President’s health plan legislation.
Sharon Begley has an excellent article called “Attack! The Truth About Obamacare” in Newsweek, that probes these issues of politically-motivated disinformation campaigns and the psychological tactic of creating fear and anger that leave logic and fact in the dust.