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  • Originally posted by turtle View Post
    On the serpent seed doctrine as far as I can recollect I found it among the scofield commentary, however it might of been another, I have not been able to reprove that point. But if memory serves me correct there were things on the scofield diaries on tv years and years ago. Here is the point. I do not like that particular commentary, it only a reference to be used to pick out certain teaching or theology. Did I post the commentary here, once, but I like to be able to reprove it, so those that have esword and have it downloaded and want to search for it i suggest the garden of eden. However on the old forum it should have the exact reference I know I would of included it.
    I've seen allusions to it in the Jewish Encyclopedia, and a recent book called Cain: Son of of the Serpent, by RABBI Max David Eichorn. The German Abbess Hiledgard of Bingen wrote of a "rape" of Eve, St. Irenaus wrote of a sect of Jewish Gnostics that claimed to be descendants of Cain, who he called the "Cainites.'

    Comment


    • "Point #1: According to the Anti-Defamation League and the Southern Poverty Law Center, the Shepherd's Chapel isn't a part of the Christian Identity movement, nor is it on either organizations' list of hate groups. This means they find no indication of racism or antisemitism." -Smyrna

      Originally posted by stage director View Post
      Ya think? They did not list James Von Brunn, either, and yet he was a very vocal white supremacist with an online manifesto long before he shot someone. Additionally, not every racist or anti-semite makes their hate list. It more seems to be those who are likely to incite others to lock and load.. ;-)

      Despite your claim to the contrary, many long standing organizations include SC in their list of Christian Identity churches/organizations. Further, the serpent seed doctrine is straight up CI, so umm, me thinks the real issue is that some folks don't understand the meaning of "Christian Identity."
      Points taken, however, no one you have mentioned has a virtual TV network of their own, countless local outlets broadcasting their program, or people like you who have claimed the ADL spied on it 17 years ago.

      You also failed to mention the SPLC, which also doesn't list the SC in their hate groups list for Arkansas organizations, even after allowing an amateur reporter to do an expose' on the SC, which was the original topic of the now closed thread, The Southern Poverty Law Center Questions SC Theology.

      Apparently they questioned it and found it doesn't rate as a hate group. Perhaps it was an oversight? Why not write them and question their decision. I find it interesting you chimed in while Franklin remains silent after leaving the mess that started this nonsense again.

      The serpent seed doctrine may be "straight up CI" but you fail to mention the ADL's own website reflects that CI Churches exists that hold a traditional, non antisemitic view which detractors such as yourself conveniently ignore, as this was mentioned numerous times in the final pages on the now closed thread.
      Last edited by smyrna; 10-17-2011, 11:54 AM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by jeff_franklin View Post
        Shepherds Chapel's beliefs are clearly identical to Christian Identity. Those who the world knows to be Jews, those who worship in synagogues, 95% of all the world's Jews, Ashkenazim, Sephardic, Khazar Jews are identified by Arnold Murray as Kenites, who he claims are literal descendants of Satan from his supposed sexual romp with Adam and Eve. Anyone can clearly see that is slandering the real Jews of the world as well as endangering their lives.

        Neither Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant sects of Christianity believe that Satan had sex with Adam and Eve. Also all Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant sects of Christianity know from scripture that ALL HUMANITY is descended from Adam and Eve. Same as Judaism and Islam. All three Abrahmic beliefs.

        Christian Identity and Arnold Murray falsely claim that God made all the races and ethnic groups separately and only implanted God's spirit in the Aryan, Adamic (German Gaelic ethnic group) on their mythical eight day of creation.

        Anyone, repeat anyone, knows that claiming the Jews are the children of Satan and God creating the races separately is not Christian and is antisemitic and racist!

        Anyone can see that the differences between Catholics, Orthodox, Protestant Sects are mole hills compared to the mountainous differences between Christian beliefs and Christian Identity which includes Arnold Murray's Shepherds Chapel.

        Those two differences in beliefs Shepherds Chapel's beliefs are clearly identical to Christian Identity. Those who the world knows to be Jews, those who worship in synagogues, 95% of all the world's Jews, Ashkenazim, Sephardic, Khazar Jews are identified by Arnold Murray as Kenites, who he claims are literal descendants of Satan from his supposed sexual romp with Adam and Eve. Anyone can clearly see that is slandering the real Jews of the world as well as endangering their lives.

        Neither Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant sects of Christianity believe that Satan had sex with Adam and Eve. Also all Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant sects of Christianity know from scripture that ALL HUMANITY is descended from Adam and Eve. Christian Identity and Arnold Murray falsely claim that God made all the races and ethnic groups separately and only implanted God's spirit in the Aryan, Adamic (German Gaelic ethnic group) on their mythical eight day of creation.

        Anyone, repeat anyone, knows that claiming the Jews are the children of Satan and God creating the races separately is not Christian and is racist!

        Anyone can see that the differences between Catholics, Orthodox, Protestant Sects are mole hills compared to the mountainous differences between Christian beliefs and Christian Identity which includes Arnold Murray's Shepherds Chapel.

        Those two differences in beliefs (Serpent Seed, Seperate Creations) between Christianity and Christian Identity, Shepherds Chapel, Aryan Nations, Ku Klux Klan included, clearly makes Shepherds Chapel heretical, Arnold Murray BLASPHEMOUS and DANGEROUS!
        "Christian Identity and Arnold Murray falsely claim that God made all the races and ethnic groups separately and only implanted God's spirit in the Aryan, Adamic (German Gaelic ethnic group) on their mythical eight day of creation."

        Tell us when you will stop lying about the SC Frankie. Until then I'll be ignoring your posts. You continually ignore anyone who disagrees with you. Two can play that game.

        Comment


        • Turtle,

          If people read my posts they will know how much I love Scofield, but he is not in ERROR on this doctrine. This is from Wikipedia on Serpent Seed - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent_seed

          In The Scofield Study Bible Scofield says, "The serpent, in his Edenic form, is not to be thought of as a writhing reptile. That is the effect of the curse (Gen. 3:14). The creature which lent itself to Satan may well have been the most beautiful as it was the most "subtle" of creatures less than man".[11] Scofield's notes are silent as to the idea of Cain being the serpent's seed, however in Genesis 6:2 his notes claimed that while it was an "error" to believe that the offspring mentioned were the product of supernatural unions, it was instead the intermarriage of the "godly line of Seth" with the "godless line of Cain" being referred to.[12] Advocates suggest that modern Christian translations of the Old Testament reduce emphasis on this concept, which they believe indicated the serpent had been an upright, human-like creature."

          Comment


          • Turtle,

            You read my post wrong. Go back and read it again.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by smyrna View Post
              Why does anyone have to "define" Jesus as God who is a professed Christian? Look somewhere else for a witch, Easeltine. As for the rest of your comment, it may be impressive for a Catholic to respect how the Pope defines a Christian.

              Finally, you have no authority to refer to anyone as a heretic, but you do have a right to give a silly opinion.
              A church, and a theologian teach heresy if they do not define Jesus Christ as God Almighty, the 2nd Persona of the Trinity, and the One who through all things were made in their Statement of Faith.

              Dominus Iesus gives the Scriptural, and logical reasons why the Statement of Faith of Shepherds Chapel is heresy.
              Stay away from this CULT!

              Comment


              • Just had my morning chuckle with my coffee before going to work reading a Cult Defender throw up smokescreens, doing the impossible, attempting to defend Arnold Murray's racist Cult.

                Everyone opposed to Murray here has substance, mainly centered around scripture. But also the stated and known Christian Identity beliefs taught by the originator and Arnold Murray's own Pastor, Wesley Swift, racist Klansman, who Arnold Murray was a Deacon for, for many years in California and who started along with Thomas Robb, Grand Wizard, of the Christian Identity Ku Klux Klan, the Church of Jesus Christ, Christian, same name of Wesley Swift's Church.

                What does Arnold Murray's internet Damage Control Chieftain have? Smoke and mirrors. Allusions to non scriptural sources that don't amount to a hill of beans. What does some Jewish Rabbi's opinion of gentiles have to do with the discussion about the mythical Serpent Seed and separate creations of the races and ethnic groups that is blasphemy to all three of the only member religions of the Abrahamic faiths, Judaism, Christianity and Islam?

                Arnold Murray has NEVER denounced Wesley Swift, Thomas Robb or any of the other notorious racist, antisemites who ordained Arnold Murray, signed his ministerial license. Never.

                It is well known that Arnold Murray's Shepherd Chapel teaches the in depth Christian Identity racist, antisemitic teachings away from the television cameras instead of the milquetoast version it delivers on the air. Murray's tapes that are sent out to donors have all the evidence of Murray's NON Christian, racist, antisemitic blasphemies we have displayed here for readers.

                The major problem with heretics, blasphemers when they butcher the Bible six ways for Sunday is they can't have it both ways when the massive contradictions instantly pop up.

                If according to Aryan Nations, Ku Klux Klan and Arnold Murray the Genesis 1 man (Adam) is not the same man as the Genesis 2 man (Adam) then God only breathes His spirit into the Genesis 2 created man, not the Genesis 1 man. Any child can see that.

                So if racist heretics are going to pervert God's Holy Word then they can never explain the contradictions they cause when they do. Making the creations of man separate means that only German Gaelics, (Adamic man according to Wesley Swift, Murray's Pastor) have souls. The rest of humanity does not.

                Oh what a deceptive web racists weave when the start to deceive. Christian Identity's bucket has many, many holes in it and the liquid oozing out is pure racist poison!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by jeff_franklin View Post
                  Just had my morning chuckle with my coffee before going to work reading a Cult Defender throw up smokescreens, doing the impossible, attempting to defend Arnold Murray's racist Cult.

                  Everyone opposed to Murray here has substance, mainly centered around scripture. But also the stated and known Christian Identity beliefs taught by the originator and Arnold Murray's own Pastor, Wesley Swift, racist Klansman, who Arnold Murray was a Deacon for, for many years in California and who started along with Thomas Robb, Grand Wizard, of the Christian Identity Ku Klux Klan, the Church of Jesus Christ, Christian, same name of Wesley Swift's Church.

                  What does Arnold Murray's internet Damage Control Chieftain have? Smoke and mirrors. Allusions to non scriptural sources that don't amount to a hill of beans. What does some Jewish Rabbi's opinion of gentiles have to do with the discussion about the mythical Serpent Seed and separate creations of the races and ethnic groups that is blasphemy to all three of the only member religions of the Abrahamic faiths, Judaism, Christianity and Islam?

                  Arnold Murray has NEVER denounced Wesley Swift, Thomas Robb or any of the other notorious racist, antisemites who ordained Arnold Murray, signed his ministerial license. Never.

                  It is well known that Arnold Murray's Shepherd Chapel teaches the in depth Christian Identity racist, antisemitic teachings away from the television cameras instead of the milquetoast version it delivers on the air. Murray's tapes that are sent out to donors have all the evidence of Murray's NON Christian, racist, antisemitic blasphemies we have displayed here for readers.

                  The major problem with heretics, blasphemers when they butcher the Bible six ways for Sunday is they can't have it both ways when the massive contradictions instantly pop up.

                  If according to Aryan Nations, Ku Klux Klan and Arnold Murray the Genesis 1 man (Adam) is not the same man as the Genesis 2 man (Adam) then God only breathes His spirit into the Genesis 2 created man, not the Genesis 1 man. Any child can see that.

                  So if racist heretics are going to pervert God's Holy Word then they can never explain the contradictions they cause when they do. Making the creations of man separate means that only German Gaelics, (Adamic man according to Wesley Swift, Murray's Pastor) have souls. The rest of humanity does not.

                  Oh what a deceptive web racists weave when the start to deceive. Christian Identity's bucket has many, many holes in it and the liquid oozing out is pure racist poison!
                  "What does Arnold Murray's internet Damage Control Chieftain have?"

                  And who may that be, Frankiln?

                  "It is well known that Arnold Murray's Shepherd Chapel teaches the in depth Christian Identity racist, antisemitic teachings away from the television cameras instead of the milquetoast version it delivers on the air. Murray's tapes that are sent out to donors have all the evidence of Murray's NON Christian, racist, antisemitic blasphemies we have displayed here for readers"

                  Really? The why doesn't the ADL or SPLC list the SC as a hate group? See, you can keep up the foolishness, but you can't prove what you claim.

                  Anybody can make allegations, but few are able to prove them. Until you explain why the ADL and SPLC don't list Murray and the SC on any of their lists of CI or hate groups, you are a failure.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by easeltine View Post
                    A church, and a theologian teach heresy if they do not define Jesus Christ as God Almighty, the 2nd Persona of the Trinity, and the One who through all things were made in their Statement of Faith.

                    Dominus Iesus gives the Scriptural, and logical reasons why the Statement of Faith of Shepherds Chapel is heresy.
                    Stay away from this CULT!
                    It's debatable the SC fits the definition of a cult, in the loose sense it is used today. The term Cult in it's classic historical applications is defined this way:

                    1: formal religious veneration : worship


                    2: a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents

                    Christ is who SC students worship, ritual, is for instance how Christ told His disciples how to pray to the father, and to drink wine and eat bread in memory of him.

                    Once again, Easeltine, you have no right to call the SC a cult, but you do have a right to make silly comments.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by easeltine View Post
                      Turtle,

                      You read my post wrong. Go back and read it again.

                      EAseltine I am surprised at you, you know my post well enough and then you go and edit your post to change what you said. Hmm. Then you go and use wikinipeg to top it all off to prove you agree doctrinally with eve having sex with someone other then adam. Come on. Your problem easeltine is this, you choose to type what you well and believe as you want makes no never mind to me, however remember this. Sooner or later it will catch up to you and I got a feeling it just did on these boards.

                      No matter how ell you know scripture it still does not change the fact a donkey talked to baalam and a snake to eve. God stopped baalam but did not stop eve, one might ask why. Eve had no fear of a loving God but baalam had fear of the wrath of God on what he was aware of. Think about it.

                      Comment


                      • FRANKLIN'S SHALLOW AND MEANINGLESS CAMPAIGN AGAINST THE SC

                        He rants and raves about Christian Identity, continuously groups the SC within the CI movement, when two major organizations dedicated to exposing racism and antisemitism don't even list the SC on any hate group lists they publish. Yet, on his own website there are no CI groups profiled, while he attacks such obscure groups such as 'Ho Ho Hana Sanpogyo Hogen Fukunaga' some Japanese "foot cult".

                        His attacks on CI are nothing but his continuing agenda to attack only the SC, because students of the SC have aggravated him for five years, embarrassed him, and shown how wrong he is. He ignores any real hate groups, and continues to try and label the SC as one, even though the ADL ad SPLC do not.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by stage director View Post
                          This is the same Council that decreed:

                          (Canon XXIX) Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lordís Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.

                          In other words, they acknowledged that the 7th day was indeed the sabbath, and yet placed themselves above God's decree concerning it.
                          Stage: It is with the knowledge of such things as these that I've long said: All Christian denominations have many many faults.

                          Just as I know that, I do also know this !!!

                          Those whom are beholding to a denomination will all cry: Not my CHURCH ..... No Way !!! ..... We are HOLY PEOPLE.

                          That of course leaves me with having to say one of my all time favorite lines: .. Ya Right !!!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by shadowcat View Post
                            So we should be resting from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday instead of Sunday?
                            Shadowcat: Christ said to Keep the Sabbath holy....

                            That means Saturday.

                            I myself am a sinner as I never have kept Satuday or Sunday as a Holy day, so don't imagine it to where I'm trying to be the judge of anybody on this matter.

                            Though in a some what worthless defence of myself for not doing so: There is not one single day that goes by where I don't at leaste think of God 20 times or better, and I do mean every day !!!

                            You know what I mean ??

                            Dob!!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by easeltine View Post
                              Smyrna,

                              The Nicene and Athanasian Creeds specifically anathemizes those that do not believe in the Deity of Jesus Christ. Pope Benedict, when he was Cardinal Ratzinger, and signed by Pope John Paul the II, defines in Dominus Iesus the minimum requirement a person needs to believe in to be considered a Christian. Pope Benedict presents many Scriptures on this subject. Murray's Statement of Faith fails to meet the minimum requirements proven by Scripture in Dominus Iesus to be considered a Christian.
                              Easeltine:

                              I can easily see: That the day shall never come for you to stop putting your trust in men.

                              In this post you obviously rely upon the words of men to tell you whom a Christian is.

                              Easeltine do you know what the Bible has to says about people like yourself who play HOST to these High Ones.
                              [Cardinals, Bishops, Popes, High Priests, Nicene council, long dead ministers, ect. ect. ect.]

                              Do please allow me to show you ......

                              Now pay close attention as this verse is going to mention what I've just said about people like yourself as being the HOST to these high ones.

                              Isa.24:21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shal punish the HOST of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon earth.

                              So like I've been saying all along Easeltine do enjoy your praising of these men for all that your capable of doing. Though before you do I'll post you for you what the next verses says that follows verse 21.

                              Eze,24:22 /// And they shall be gathered, as prisoners are gathered in the PIT ///

                              Have a nice trip ......

                              He He He !!!

                              Dob's still loves ya...

                              Dob!!
                              Last edited by dobman53; 10-18-2011, 10:00 PM.

                              Comment


                              • There is no Trinity ......... Period !!!

                                God the father has one begotten son.

                                The word begotten means only born child.

                                Christ made us.

                                So that leaves it where God the father is a grandfather to all of us. And beings God has only one begotten son, it's only through the son that we can be with the Father.

                                Gods Holy Spirit is not a person. The Holy spirit is the sum total of all God goodness. The breath of life being #1 ... it's the air it's self...

                                There is no third thrown upon Gods montain......... Period !!!

                                Quote all the men you like from now on untill the last day of Satan, and it ain't gonna change a darn think !!!

                                // And they shall be gathered as prisoners are gathered in the pit //

                                Have a nice day ..

                                Dob!!

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