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  • Here is what I found in the Catholic Encyclopedia:


    At the dawn of history in the middle of the fifth millennium before Christ we find in the Euphrates Valley a number of city-states, or rather city-monarchies, in rivalry with one another and in such a condition of culture and progress, that this valley has been called the cradle of civilization, not only of the Semitic world, but most likely also of Egypt. The people dwelling in this valley were certainly not all of one race; they differed in type and language. The primitive inhabitants were probably of Mongolian ancestry, they are styled Sumerians, or inhabitants of Sumer, Sungir, Sennaar. They invented the cuneiform script, built the oldest cities, and brought the country to a great height of peaceful prosperity.

    And

    Ur, Abraham's birthplace, about twenty-five miles northeast of Eridu, at present Mughair

    And very interesting:


    (5) According to Genesis 11:28 and 31, Abraham was a Babylonian from the city of Ur. It is remarkable that the name Abu ramu (Honored Father) occurs in the eponym lists for 677 B.C., and Abe ramu, a similar name, on a contract-tablet in the reign of Apil-Sin, thus showing that Abram was a Babylonian name in use long before and after the date of the Patriarch. His father removed from Ur to Harran, from the old centre of the Moon-cult to the new. Talmudic tradition makes Terah an idolater, and his religion may have had to do with his emigration. No excavations have as yet taken place at Harran, and Abraham's ancestry remains obscure. Aberamu of Apil-Sin's reign had a son Sha-Amurri, which fact shows the early intercourse between Babylonia and the Amorite land, or Palestine. In Chanaan Abraham remained within the sphere of Babylonian language and influence, or perhaps even authority. Several centuries later, when Palestine was no longer part of the Babylonian Empire, Abd-Hiba, the King of Jerusalem, in his intercourse with his over-lord of Egypt, wrote neither his own language nor that of Pharao, but Babylonian, the universal language of the day. Even when passing into Egypt, Abraham remained under Semitic rule, for the Hyksos reigned there.
    (6) Considering that the progenitor of the Hebrew race was a Babylonian, and that Babylonian culture remained paramount in Western Asia for more than 1000 years, the most astounding feature of the Hebrew Scriptures is the almost complete absence of Babylonian religious ideas, the more so as Babylonian religion, though Oriental polytheism, possessed a refinement, a nobility of thought, and a piety, which are often admirable. The Babylonian account of creation, though often compared with the Biblical one, differs from it on main and essential points for
    • it contains no direct statement of the Creation of the world: Tiamtu and Apsu, the watery waste and the abyss wedded together, beget the universe; Marduk, the conqueror of chaos, shapes and orders all things; but this is the mythological garb of evolution as opposed to creation.
    • It does not make the Deity the first and only cause of the existence of all things; the gods themselves are but the outcome of pre-existent, apparently eternal, forces; they are not cause, but effect.
    • It makes the present world the outcome of a great war; it is the story of Resistance and Struggle, which is the exact opposite of the Biblical account.
    • It does not arrange the things created into groups or classes, which is one of the main features of the story in Genesis.
    • The work of creation is not divided into a number of days — the principal literary characteristic of the Biblical account.
    The Babylonian mythology possesses something analogous to the biblical Garden of Eden. But though they apparently possessed the word Edina, not only as meaning "the Plain", but as a geographical name, their garden of delight is placed in Eridu, where "a dark vine grew; it was made a glorious place, planted beside the abyss. In the glorious house, which is like a forest, its shadow extends; no man enters its midst. In its interior is the Sun-god Tammuz. Between the mouths of the rivers, which are on both sides." This passage bears a striking analogy to Genesis 2:8-17. The Babylonians, however, seem to have possessed no account of the Fall. It seems likely that the name of Ea, or Ya, or Aa, the oldest god of the Babylonian Pantheon, is connected with the name Jahve, Jahu, or Ja, of the Old Testament. Professor Delitzsch recently claimed to have found the name Jahve-ilu on a Babylonian tablet, but the reading has been strongly disputed by other scholars. The greatest similarity between Hebrew and Babylonian records is in their accounts of the Flood. Pir-napistum, the Babylonian Noah, commanded by Ea, builds a ship and transfers hither his family, the beasts of the field, and the sons of the artificers, and he shuts the door. Six days and nights the wind blew, the flood overwhelmed the land. The seventh day the storm ceased; quieted, the sea shrank back; all mankind had turned to corruption. The ship stopped at the land of Nisir. Pir-napistum sends out first a dove, which returns; then a swallow, and it returns, then a raven, and it does not return. He leaves the ship, pours out a libation, makes an offering on the peak of the mountain. "The gods smelled a savour, the gods smelled a sweet savour, the gods gathered like flies over the sacrificer." No one reading the Babylonian account of the Flood can deny its intimate connection with the narrative in Genesis, yet the former is so intimately bound up with Babylonian mythology, that the inspired character of the Hebrew account is the better appreciated by the contrast.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by smyrna View Post
      Cat, Looks like Frankie went to do some homework, at least we can hope he does.

      Have you ever read about the Hyksos? Some researchers think they were Israelites who influenced Egyptian religion in such a way that it went from being Polytheistic to Theistic, at least to my fuzzy recollection.
      Yup, I have 2 really good scholarly books about it. The Hyksos were a semitic people, this has been proven now in archaeology. The 2 books I have are: "The Scepter of Egypt II A Background for the Study of the Egyptian Antiquities in the Metropolitan Museum of Art - The Hyksos Period And The New Kingdom (1675-1080 B.C)" by William C Hayes and
      "The Hyksos: New Historical and Archaeological Perspectives, The University of Pennsylvania Museum" Editor Eliezer Oren. Both are very good works.

      Simcha Jacobovici did a documentary called The Exodus Decoded that dealth with the very subject of the Hyksos being the Israelites.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by shadowcat View Post
        Here is what I found in the Catholic Encyclopedia:


        At the dawn of history in the middle of the fifth millennium before Christ we find in the Euphrates Valley a number of city-states, or rather city-monarchies, in rivalry with one another and in such a condition of culture and progress, that this valley has been called the cradle of civilization, not only of the Semitic world, but most likely also of Egypt. The people dwelling in this valley were certainly not all of one race; they differed in type and language. The primitive inhabitants were probably of Mongolian ancestry, they are styled Sumerians, or inhabitants of Sumer, Sungir, Sennaar. They invented the cuneiform script, built the oldest cities, and brought the country to a great height of peaceful prosperity.

        And

        Ur, Abraham's birthplace, about twenty-five miles northeast of Eridu, at present Mughair

        And very interesting:


        (5) According to Genesis 11:28 and 31, Abraham was a Babylonian from the city of Ur. It is remarkable that the name Abu ramu (Honored Father) occurs in the eponym lists for 677 B.C., and Abe ramu, a similar name, on a contract-tablet in the reign of Apil-Sin, thus showing that Abram was a Babylonian name in use long before and after the date of the Patriarch. His father removed from Ur to Harran, from the old centre of the Moon-cult to the new. Talmudic tradition makes Terah an idolater, and his religion may have had to do with his emigration. No excavations have as yet taken place at Harran, and Abraham's ancestry remains obscure. Aberamu of Apil-Sin's reign had a son Sha-Amurri, which fact shows the early intercourse between Babylonia and the Amorite land, or Palestine. In Chanaan Abraham remained within the sphere of Babylonian language and influence, or perhaps even authority. Several centuries later, when Palestine was no longer part of the Babylonian Empire, Abd-Hiba, the King of Jerusalem, in his intercourse with his over-lord of Egypt, wrote neither his own language nor that of Pharao, but Babylonian, the universal language of the day. Even when passing into Egypt, Abraham remained under Semitic rule, for the Hyksos reigned there.
        (6) Considering that the progenitor of the Hebrew race was a Babylonian, and that Babylonian culture remained paramount in Western Asia for more than 1000 years, the most astounding feature of the Hebrew Scriptures is the almost complete absence of Babylonian religious ideas, the more so as Babylonian religion, though Oriental polytheism, possessed a refinement, a nobility of thought, and a piety, which are often admirable. The Babylonian account of creation, though often compared with the Biblical one, differs from it on main and essential points for
        • it contains no direct statement of the Creation of the world: Tiamtu and Apsu, the watery waste and the abyss wedded together, beget the universe; Marduk, the conqueror of chaos, shapes and orders all things; but this is the mythological garb of evolution as opposed to creation.
        • It does not make the Deity the first and only cause of the existence of all things; the gods themselves are but the outcome of pre-existent, apparently eternal, forces; they are not cause, but effect.
        • It makes the present world the outcome of a great war; it is the story of Resistance and Struggle, which is the exact opposite of the Biblical account.
        • It does not arrange the things created into groups or classes, which is one of the main features of the story in Genesis.
        • The work of creation is not divided into a number of days — the principal literary characteristic of the Biblical account.
        The Babylonian mythology possesses something analogous to the biblical Garden of Eden. But though they apparently possessed the word Edina, not only as meaning "the Plain", but as a geographical name, their garden of delight is placed in Eridu, where "a dark vine grew; it was made a glorious place, planted beside the abyss. In the glorious house, which is like a forest, its shadow extends; no man enters its midst. In its interior is the Sun-god Tammuz. Between the mouths of the rivers, which are on both sides." This passage bears a striking analogy to Genesis 2:8-17. The Babylonians, however, seem to have possessed no account of the Fall. It seems likely that the name of Ea, or Ya, or Aa, the oldest god of the Babylonian Pantheon, is connected with the name Jahve, Jahu, or Ja, of the Old Testament. Professor Delitzsch recently claimed to have found the name Jahve-ilu on a Babylonian tablet, but the reading has been strongly disputed by other scholars. The greatest similarity between Hebrew and Babylonian records is in their accounts of the Flood. Pir-napistum, the Babylonian Noah, commanded by Ea, builds a ship and transfers hither his family, the beasts of the field, and the sons of the artificers, and he shuts the door. Six days and nights the wind blew, the flood overwhelmed the land. The seventh day the storm ceased; quieted, the sea shrank back; all mankind had turned to corruption. The ship stopped at the land of Nisir. Pir-napistum sends out first a dove, which returns; then a swallow, and it returns, then a raven, and it does not return. He leaves the ship, pours out a libation, makes an offering on the peak of the mountain. "The gods smelled a savour, the gods smelled a sweet savour, the gods gathered like flies over the sacrificer." No one reading the Babylonian account of the Flood can deny its intimate connection with the narrative in Genesis, yet the former is so intimately bound up with Babylonian mythology, that the inspired character of the Hebrew account is the better appreciated by the contrast.
        Very interesting. There's so much there, but my mind wandered to Zechariah Sitchin's work with Sumerian/Babylonian mythology. Of course, it doesn't help that I'm listening to Coast to Coast AM! (Whitley Strieber/UFOs)

        Comment


        • Originally posted by shadowcat View Post
          Yup, I have 2 really good scholarly books about it. The Hyksos were a semitic people, this has been proven now in archaeology. The 2 books I have are: "The Scepter of Egypt II A Background for the Study of the Egyptian Antiquities in the Metropolitan Museum of Art - The Hyksos Period And The New Kingdom (1675-1080 B.C)" by William C Hayes and
          "The Hyksos: New Historical and Archaeological Perspectives, The University of Pennsylvania Museum" Editor Eliezer Oren. Both are very good works.

          Simcha Jacobovici did a documentary called The Exodus Decoded that dealth with the very subject of the Hyksos being the Israelites.

          Excellent, thank you. I've also read that the Pheonecians (sp?) were seafaring Israelites.

          I think this Diaspora moved through history and many as you noted also became Christianized, how much does our society owe to the early Church missionaries, many of them monks, and their advances in so many areas of human endeavor?

          Comment


          • Totally Off Topic

            But Wiki is down in protest to our totalitarian Obama regime's Internet Piracy Bill, which as most of Obama sanctioned bills go, is over reaching, intrusive, and stifling, reminding us we are closer to China than we are being led to believe. What's next, a one child per family law?

            I loved Newt in last night's debate. He kicked butt big time!

            Comment


            • Also from the article in the Catholic Encyclopedia, this is very interesting about the Babylonian creation story:

              "It makes the present world the outcome of a great war;"

              Comment


              • Originally posted by smyrna View Post
                Totally Off Topic

                But Wiki is down in protest to our totalitarian Obama regime's Internet Piracy Bill, which as most of Obama sanctioned bills go, is over reaching, intrusive, and stifling, reminding us we are closer to China than we are being led to believe. What's next, a one child per family law?

                I loved Newt in last night's debate. He kicked butt big time!
                Yeah wordpress is protesting this too. The whole thing is total bs and yes it is very close to China.

                I'm starting to think the entire US government has been infiltrated by the League of Shadows. lol I just love Batman Begins!

                Comment


                • http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/b...g/dasboot1.jpg

                  Damage Control Chief of "S.S. Arnold Murray" sounds the "ALAAAAAARM!" as it's being depth charged by "U.S.S. TRUTH" above! Arnold Murray's Cult Defenders scurry to repair the leaks as the waters of God's truth rushes in, sinking their Cult's doomed ship!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by smyrna View Post
                    Excellent, thank you. I've also read that the Pheonecians (sp?) were seafaring Israelites.
                    Yes some of them were. They are also related to the Lebanese. This is an article about what they have found concerning Phoenician dna results.

                    http://phoenicia.org/genetics.html
                    Conclusion
                    The major conclusion reached that relates to the Lebanese indicates that they belong to the "older" Mediterranean substratum. This means that the Lebanese share the same genetic identifiers like the Macedonians*, Iberians (including Basques), North Africans, Italians, French, Cretans, Jews, Anatolians (aboriginal Turks), Armenians and Iranians.


                    Read more: Proving History Through Science -- Phoenician’s Reborn through the DNA "Alphabet," the Y Chromosome http://phoenicia.org/genetics.html#ixzz1jnaylXXr

                    Comment


                    • "Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do."

                      1 Timothy 1:4


                      "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

                      Galatians 3:28

                      OBEY GOD'S COMMANDS!

                      Comment


                      • Hey Frankie, I don't see why Sammael was banned for doing what you're doing with the big graphics and incendiary rehtoric. You've got less than five minutes to remove that post, otherwise it's gettting reported.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by jeff_franklin View Post
                          "Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do."

                          1 Timothy 1:4


                          "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

                          Galatians 3:28

                          OBEY GOD'S COMMANDS!
                          Out of context Mr. Bible scholar. This is why you consistently disqualify yourself from civil discussions or debates. You always get into your heckler and childish actions mode. Is that how you compensate for the discussion going way over your head?

                          Comment


                          • Franklin, what damage control are you talking about? I haven't mentioned anything about Murray. I have only commented on the fact that the man that wrote that book has Jewish roots, his last name is Jewish. I also put up some info on William Potter Gale who coined the term Christian Identity, was Swift's teacher and the grandfather of the Christian Identity movement who also was Jewish.

                            According to all of the articles you have put up and the articles I have read it states that Christian Identity states that other races are mud people. William Potter Gale taught this and he was Jewish. Murray doesn't teach this. Why do you keep insisting that he does??

                            Comment


                            • Your 5 minutes is up Frankie, I'm reporting your offending post.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by smyrna View Post
                                Hey Frankie, I don't see why Sammael was banned for doing what you're doing with the big graphics and incendiary rehtoric. You've got less than five minutes to remove that post, otherwise it's gettting reported.
                                I was just getting ready to say something about this too. This is why sam got banned. Also franklin has called us Arnold Murray Cult Defenders along with the graphic.

                                Comment

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