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  • Where Did Cain's Wife Come From?

    In Biblical mythology, Cain is said to have left the “Garden of Eden” and started a family that Shepherds Chapel students believe were the progenitors of a genetic line they call Kenites (Spawn of Satan).

    My question is, who were the people that Cain found outside of the "Garden" that were not part of Adam and Eve’s progeny where he found a woman to marry and have children? Where did they come from? Wouldn’t this conflict with the biblical story that Adam and Eve were the first man and woman created by the God of the Old Testament?

  • #2
    Genesis 4:17
    (17) And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.


    Genesis 5:1-4
    (1) This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
    (2) Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
    (3) And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:
    (4) And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

    The word that is underline is the word their in bold. Why because it shows the adamic race of people. One has to remember that Eve was the mother of all living verse is in chapter 3 of Genesis. However what we know is there were other sons and daughters besides, Cain, Seth and Abel the one that died. It is possible that eve had children every time her children were weaned from the breast. For breast feeding does cause a female not to easily conceive, but no guarantee she won't. It is possible that before Cain left he was already married.

    However the problem arise was Cain cast out of adam and eve site or only the Lord God's sight. Bible says Lord God not necessarily out of the parents site. With that cain had family visits being the next peace of property over.

    Comment


    • #3
      Smyrna moving to blogger.com a google property

      Here's why:

      "Additionally, we are aware that there may be content on Blogger that is personal in nature or feels invasive. Please note that Blogger is a provider of content creation tools, not a mediator of that content. We allow our users to create blogs, but we don't make any claims about the content of these pages. We strongly believe in freedom of expression, even if a blog contains unappealing or distasteful content or presents unpopular viewpoints. We realize this may be frustrating, and we regret any inconvenience this may cause you. In cases where contact information for the author is listed on the page, we recommend that you work directly with this person to have the content in question removed or changed.

      Here are some examples of content we will not remove unless provided with a court order:

      • Personal attacks or alleged defamation
      • Parody or satire of individuals
      • Distasteful imagery or language
      • Political or social commentary
      This way, I can go on full attack against all SC detractors, their online characters and their websites.

      My Blog Title: Smyrna: Shepherd's Chapel Defender

      www.blogger.com All comments are welcome pro or con, and will not be edited.

      You detractors will hear and see what I REALLY have to say, UNMODERATED! And I could care less whether you have the guts to show up there or not.

      Like Wulfgar says: "There is NO Security"


      Blog Title

      Smyrna: Shepherd's Chapel Defender

      Comment


      • #4
        Turtle -- You said that it’s possible that when Cain fled from the imaginary Garden of Eden in biblical mythology into “The Land of Nod,” he was “already married.” I guess this means he married a sister or a cousin. If you believe all of this, it seems incest was natural and necessary in order to propagate humanity.

        I suppose you believe that Adam was 130 years old when Seth was born; and that he lived for 930 years; that Seth lived for 912 years; that Enos lived for 905 years; that Cainan lived for 910 years; that Mahalaleel lived 895 years; that Jarad lived 962 years; that Methuselah lived 969 years; and that Lamech lived for 777 years as written in Genesis 5. Biblical mythology has it that Noah was 600 years old when the “flood” came, and that he lived for another 350 years after the “flood; making him 950 years old when he died. You believe that too?

        You really have to suspend disbelief in order to justify what you find in the Bible, don’t you?

        Comment


        • #5
          Dodge sorry but you are wrong, I meant the land outside of eden, Cain went to an area called Nod. preflood. As far as marrying sister being incest. It was not incest until when do you know. Try Leviticus 18, Not Genesis 4 and second of all Abraham married his half sister. Third the incest laws we have today in the world came about in 1900. Do a little research will you dodge.

          Comment


          • #6
            Garden of Eden and a Land Called Nod?

            Turtle -- You mentioned “the land outside of Eden,” referred to as “Nod.” This is part of biblical mythology, and has nothing to do with reality. There never was a “Garden of Eden,” a land called “Nod,” or a couple named “Adam and Eve.” The Garden of Eden refers to some sort of “primordial paradise,” a “lost land” like Atlantis (a more desirable condition in the mythic past) where age and disease don‘t exist and everyone is happy, healthy and content (unlike the real world). It’s part of the Genesis creation narrative and theodicy of the Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Islam, and Christianity) and used to explain the origin of sin; and you seem to believe it for some reason (religious faith).

            Comment


            • #7
              Dodge you and I have hashed this and you decide to twist my words repeatly. The place outside of eden was not Nod. Nod was outside the place adam and eve lived after being kicked out of eden. Now do you understand. YOu believe God is a myth, I believe He is real. Why because He real inside my heart. However you want evidence. I gave you scientific, and I gave you Biblical proof of prophecy. What else do you want. Oh that right you want to see God face to face for yourself. Well that will not happen unless you have a vision of Christ or He appears at the side of the road before you. Oh wait He has appeared through many of believers that have testified to you of His wonderful works and His creation. You can use your physics, and you can use your math to calculate things but I guarantee you will never see God until judgment day. May God have mercy on your soul dodge. I sure have no more mercy to talk to you. Have a nice day.

              Comment


              • #8
                Biblical Indoctrination

                Turtle -- You can believe anything you want, but that doesn’t make it real. You wrote that God is “real inside my heart.” Essentially that’s saying this mythic supernatural being only exists in your mind and nowhere else; which is pretty accurate. Unless, of course, you really believe that there’s a god living in your actual heart amongst the blood and valves.

                You also mentioned something about a “vision of Christ.” Where would that take place other than in your own mind? Unless, of course, you were able to project that image out into objective reality so that other people could see it. Now that would be impressive. I bet that would make primetime CNN news.

                Then you talk about seeing God on “judgment day.” What does that mean? Are all the people who ever lived going to pop up out of their graves and line up to be judged at the “end of time” and separated into “good and bad,” where the “good” will go to some sort of eternal paradise and the “bad” tossed into a fiery lake to be tortured for eternity? Is it all black and white to you? What about the “sort of good,” and the “not quite bad?” Is there a “sort of heaven and not quite hell where they go?

                I’m constantly amazed at what people believe by being biblically indoctrinated.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Dodge I am glad you asked, oh that right you didn't. Oh well that life. Dodge, just because you say there is no God it does not make it so. See you can say there is not all you want, and I can say there is. However death we will both know the answer, mind not only in my heart, but where I spend eternity. However you will know and then be cast where? Well considering you do not believe in God can you at least respect the law of unconditional law that is of God. Unconditional love meaning loving people despite what they do to you. Man never seem to get that one mastered, whether unbeliever or believers. So can you love unconditionally without using insults to people that disagree with you. And just state fact of your convictions of atheism. Or do you have to find a way to boost your ego? I mean it is your choice. I mean really, Does my beliefs hurt you. I mean do I go around and force you to believe what I do, of course not. I state more then once through out factnet Jesus is a free choice. However do you embrace the teaching of Christ in the since of love, compassion for mankind, or do you beat a person to a pulp with your words, and are amazed if they stand back up. I heard a story where a man was dragged behind a car, that was the final breath, yet, what did he do to deserve it, nothing. He was a target for hate crime. So factnet against abuse Do you hate people that believe in God. I do not atheist, neither does God. Dodge I can make you believe, it something God can only speak to your heart about. I am not the one that has to convience He exist. God got to do that. I just have to share my beliefs. I might be introducer, but unless a person desires a relationship with God they will never know the joy of knowing God. And I might be able to express it and you might try and take that joy away. However you can not. It something within my heart. The Spirit of God, which hovers over the earth, fits within my heart and is everywhere. Bible declares it but even without a book God is still there. Jesus is alive dodge, whether you want to believe it or not. That is a choice as well. And in all truth you and I can go around head to head and toe to toe and you and I will not agree.

                  However one more thing I will state to you. You are interested in Shepherds chapel why. Do you wish to destroy it, by trying to understand there beliefs. Or do you wish to learn about God. See in America we have a constitutional right to believe in God. What you do not have a right to do is destroy a church that believes different then you, unless something is happening that is illegal and then it is up to Government to step in. However interesting enough Government does little unless there are killings, torture, controlling of people's minds, and abuse of people. However all these things got to be proven. A belief in God is not abuse. It can be, if all that person can do is communciate faith and not brush there teeth, or watch the latest on tv, or keep up with their families and so forth. And you sir desire to tear my faith down, for what purpose.

                  Of course my comments need adjustment too at times especially with you. Cause I really like to see you saved dodge, but I do respect your right to disagree. Shepherd's chapel can believe whatever they like. However if abuse is happening it is a problem. Is Shepherd's chapel abusive. Well sometimes people reactions can be disruptive and response can be equally as bad. And in all retrospect I think you defend your cause in what way? If you answer any of the above question you know. If you can decide to disagree, and not use insulting words to believers like mythology concerning their beliefs you go much further. YOu can say so shepherd chapel believes this or that. You can imply you do not agree. You can even say you believe it is a myth. However to say to someone they are mental because they believe something different then you is insult. A man I respect in the working force had told me he was atheist. I said okay. Now here i type all day on message boards offending my beleifs, not necessarily shepherd's chapel and what Bible actually says. And all I can say is okay. Reason is simple some people with evidence still will not believe until they have a need of God in their lives. And what I mean by need is, not bread, water, or basics, but salvation from sin. Some even say Darwin on his death bed confessed Christ. Point dodge it is individual right. However what is not abuse of children, abuse of adults with limiting mind or disabled in someway.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Do You Love Me?

                    Just sharing my opinions, Turtle; which is what a discussion board is for. One of these opinions is that supernatural beings such as the mythic characters found in the Bible only exist in your mind and nowhere else. I’m sorry that you feel this insults you.

                    You asked me if I respected the “law of unconditional love.” No, because as far as I know there is no such “law.” Your mythic Christ is said to have taught that we should love our enemies, bless them that curse us, do good to them that hate us, pray for them that persecute us, and love our neighbors as we love ourselves.

                    I’ll be honest and tell you that I don’t love you. I don’t even like you. Based on my experiences trying to communicate with you over the years, reading your responses and seeing the level of your communication skills; it’s my opinion that you don’t understand most of what you read, and are incapable of intelligently expressing yourself in a mature exchange of ideas. If English is your native language, then it may be that you suffer from developmental retardation. I would suggest taking remedial English grammar classes at your local high school to improve your communication skills, Turtle; but I think your basic problem is immersion in the Bible to the exclusion of everything else.

                    These are only my opinions and subjective impressions based on several years of reading the things that you write here in these FACTnet threads, in the spirit of open and honest communication. If you like, I could give you examples from your writing that lend support to my conclusions.

                    It is also my opinion that your beliefs in invisible supernatural mythic entities that you find in the Bible such as angels, demons, Satan, and imaginary places and events such as the Garden of Eden and Noah’s Ark, are delusional and based on scriptural indoctrination that has compromised your ability to reason.

                    Now, Turtle, do you, as a professed Christian, love me unconditionally, as much as you love yourself? Are you blessing me and praying for me right now? Do you have forgiveness and compassion in your heart to the extent of wanting to do good for me? Do you practice what you preach?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by dodge View Post
                      Just sharing my opinions, Turtle; which is what a discussion board is for. One of these opinions is that supernatural beings such as the mythic characters found in the Bible only exist in your mind and nowhere else. I’m sorry that you feel this insults you.

                      You asked me if I respected the “law of unconditional love.” No, because as far as I know there is no such “law.” Your mythic Christ is said to have taught that we should love our enemies, bless them that curse us, do good to them that hate us, pray for them that persecute us, and love our neighbors as we love ourselves.

                      I’ll be honest and tell you that I don’t love you. I don’t even like you. Based on my experiences trying to communicate with you over the years, reading your responses and seeing the level of your communication skills; it’s my opinion that you don’t understand most of what you read, and are incapable of intelligently expressing yourself in a mature exchange of ideas. If English is your native language, then it may be that you suffer from developmental retardation. I would suggest taking remedial English grammar classes at your local high school to improve your communication skills, Turtle; but I think your basic problem is immersion in the Bible to the exclusion of everything else.

                      These are only my opinions and subjective impressions based on several years of reading the things that you write here in these FACTnet threads, in the spirit of open and honest communication. If you like, I could give you examples from your writing that lend support to my conclusions.

                      It is also my opinion that your beliefs in invisible supernatural mythic entities that you find in the Bible such as angels, demons, Satan, and imaginary places and events such as the Garden of Eden and Noah’s Ark, are delusional and based on scriptural indoctrination that has compromised your ability to reason.

                      Now, Turtle, do you, as a professed Christian, love me unconditionally, as much as you love yourself? Are you blessing me and praying for me right now? Do you have forgiveness and compassion in your heart to the extent of wanting to do good for me? Do you practice what you preach?


                      Unconditional love in what state as love to another human as a class A strange yes. If you were on the side of the road and I knew who you were and I had the ability to help I probably would. Let say you need a ride to your house because you broke down. And my vehicle held four people. I would give you lift or if I had a cell phone with me I loan it to you to call a wrecker. However if you had hurt me, I might want to pass you by, but see something about someone needing a cell to call at least a wreck would mean I was offering you at least a bit of help, however if you were dangerous I might just call 911 for you instead and not stop. Why because I still be helping without getting out of my vehcile to left my own finger, except to dial a phone.



                      Now the Bible is based on historical accounts. Do you remember in history studying old king Darius babylonian ruler. Of course you perhaps do or let say time of Paul, Felix governor of Rome I think. What was going on at the time gladiators. Were Christians not being feed to the lions, something you like to perhaps see happen to me. So you never see one of my post again.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The Catholic theological viewpoint is essentially the same as most Protestants on this subject:

                        "His wife... She was a daughter of Adam, and Cain's own sister; God dispensing with such marriages in the beginning of the world, as mankind could not otherwise be propagated. (Challoner)"

                        http://www.newadvent.org/bible/gen004.htm

                        From R.A. Torrey's book, "Difficulty In The Bible."

                        WHERE DID CAIN GET HIS WIFE?

                        In almost every place that I have visited in going around the world I have given skeptics and others an opportunity of asking questions at one or two meetings. I do not think that I have ever held a question meeting at which someone has not put in the question “Where did Cain get his wife?” This seems to be a favorite question with unbelievers of a certain class. I have also met young Christians who have been greatly puzzled and perplexed over this question. But if one will study his Bible carefully and note exactly what it says, there is really no great difficulty in the question.

                        Unbelievers constantly assert that the Bible says that Cain went into the land of Nod and took to himself a wife. In point of fact, it says nothing of the kind. An unbeliever in Edinburgh came to me with the assertion that the Bible did say this, and when I told him it did not, he offered to bet me one hundred pounds that it did. What the Bible does say is that “Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden. And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch” (Genesis 4:16–17). What the Bible means by “knew” in such connection anyone can discover for himself by taking his concordance and looking it up. He will discover that the word used in this connotation does not mean to get acquainted with, but is connected with the procreation of the species (see Genesis 4:1; Judges 11:39; 1 Samuel 1:19; Matthew 1:25). Cain doubtless had his wife before going to the land of Nod and took her there with him.

                        But who was she, and where did he get her?

                        In Genesis 5:3–4 we learn that Adam in his long life of 930 years begat many sons and daughters. There can be but little doubt that Cain married one of those numerous daughters.

                        But someone will say, “In that case Cain married his own sister!”

                        Yes, that was a necessity. If the whole Adamic race was to descend from a single pair, the sons and daughters must intermarry. But as the race increased, it remained no longer necessary for men to marry their own sisters, and the practice, if continued, would result in great mischief to the race. Indeed, even the intermarriage of cousins in the present day can bring frightful consequences. There are parts of the globe where the inhabitants have been largely shut out from intercourse with other people and intermarriage of cousins has been frequent, and the physical and mental results have been very bad. But in the dawn of human history, such intermarriage was not surrounded with these dangers. As late as the time of Abraham, that patriarch married his half sister (Genesis 20:12). But as the race multiplied and such intermarriages became unnecessary, and as they were accompanied with great dangers, God by special commandment forbade the marriage of brother and sister, and such marriage would now be sin because of the commandment of God; but it was not sin in the dawn of the race when the only male and female inhabitants of the earth were brothers and sisters. Such marriage today would be a crime, the crime of incest, but we cannot reasonably carry back the conditions of today into the time of the dawn of human history and judge actions performed then by the conditions and laws existing today.

                        If we were to throw the Bible account overboard and adopt the evolutionary hypothesis as to the origin of the human race we would not relieve matters at all, for in that case our early ancestors would have been beasts, and the father and mother of the human race would be descendants of the same pair of beasts, brother and sister beasts. Take whatever theory of the origin of the human race that we may, we are driven to the conclusion that in the early history of the race, there was the necessary intermarriage of the children of the same pair.

                        To sum it all up, Cain married one of the many daughters of Adam and Eve, and the so-called impenetrable mystery of where Cain got his wife is found to be no mystery whatever.

                        http://ratorrey.webs.com/DifficultiesInTheBible.htm Freeweb Col.! LOL!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Easeltine -- All it says about Cain and his wife was that Cain “went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.” (Gen. 5:16) Then he “knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch.”

                          From this, Reuben Archer Torrey (the guy who wrote the article in the link you posted) concludes that it must have been one of the daughters of Adam and Eve, his sister, that he married? Isn’t this filling unknown gaps with preconceived ideas?

                          The “land of Nod” is only a way of saying he wandered around, that Cain was a nomad after leaving the place where Adam and Eve lived. Cain wandered around and somewhere found a woman that he married, and they had a son who they named Enoch. We don’t even know what her name was.

                          It just religious mythology! There is no logic to any of it; so filling in the blanks with subjective opinions is pointless. There never was such a person named Cain or a place called the Land of Nod. They’re just stories in an old book. Let’s get back to reality.

                          The fact is that we, as humans, belong to the hominid family of animals; and our cousins are chimpanzees, gorillas, and orangutans. Humans, Homo sapiens, evolved from archaic humans in East Africa about 200,000 years ago, and began to expand into South Africa and into Southwest Asia (Israel) by about 100,000 to 115,000 years ago. The rest is evolutionary history.

                          You’re arguing about characters in an imaginary story. Your time would be better spent catching up on current science and educating yourself.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Let me throw this in the mix. ice age came, which I believe is time of the flood. The water depth making the temptature like ice. Now with this where was habitance during the ice age beginning. Let forget about Adam and eve for a moment and go to this time period.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Turtle -- Are you theorizing that the biblical flood took place during the last “ice age?” The last “glacial maximum,” where the advancing glaciers reached their thickest and furthest points, happened about 20,000 years ago. Then there was a warming phase, where melting ice caused the world oceans to rise. There were two major thaws; one around 14,000 years ago and the other around 11,500 years ago. There was flooding of coastlines and the mouths of rivers; and Britain became an island separated from the mainland continent somewhere around 8,250 years ago.

                              Your theory must be that the legendary flood was the result of melting glaciers; but that’s a slow process, taking place over thousands of years. Your Bible tells us that it all happened within forty days when a “flood of water” was released by your mythical god.

                              I think it would be more beneficial to understand where the Genesis Ark story came from, which was from Babylonian myth in the story of Gilgamesh. It describes how the god Enlil was annoyed by all the noise that humans were making; so he talked the other gods into destroying them with a great flood. Ea, one of the gods, objected; and told Utnapishtim to build a great boat to save a few humans and some animals.

                              Also, in the Gilgamesh story, there is a couple (Enkidu and Shamhat). The man is created from the earth in the image of a god, lives in a natural setting with animals for companions; and then a woman is introduced. They were naked; and when clothed themselves were unable to return to their former natural state. Sound familiar?

                              The Epic of Gilgamesh has the earliest version of the Flood Story, which only later appeared in Genesis. This takes us back to more than four thousand years ago. Where did the ancient Babylonians get these stories? Oral traditions? Perhaps there was a devastating flood, and its memory has been preserved through the millennia through story-tellers, and it became part of our collective consciousness; and found its way into religious myths.

                              I think the best way to discover the truth behind this is through science; and look for evidence of massive flooding prior to four or five thousand years ago. That would take some time to research. I’ll look into it and see what I can find. This is interesting.

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