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  • Anyone Know Sam Fife

    I would be interested in speaking/corresponding with anyone who has had direct contact with either Bro. Sam Fife or "The Move" or anyone even remotely related to this movement. I am researching a book on this movement, having spent time at several farms myself over the years, namely Graham River, Blueberry, Shiloh, Evergreen and Hoonah, Alaska. If you have any information, please don't hesitate to write me at rose.ong@primus.ca
    Thank you

  • #2
    Are you the auther of the Uni

    Are you the auther of the Uniquely Me web site? If not you might wnat to go there anf take a look.

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    • #3
      I lived at Blueberry when it w

      I lived at Blueberry when it was first started and later moved to Headwaters. I personally feel that when my parents got involved with the Move, it was the beginning to the end of any sort of a normal childhood for my siblings and I. Being in the Move literally damaged family relationships, destoyed families and took away rights and privilages that children are entitled to when they are growing up. These include the right to be loved, to be protected, to love themselves, to develop naturally in a safe environment and the right to protection from abuse. They took away our rights to an education. I have never seen so much abuse in my whole life. Little babies literally nearly smothered to stop them from crying during long services and beatings no child should have to endure. Children were so isolated that there was no one to turn to. Adults could not be trusted so who did they have to protect them. If I were to write a book on things that went on while living at the farms, "normal" people would be appalled! I see movies and read books that shock others and the contents just roll off of my shoulders because I have lived many of these nightmares. We were told God was a God of love but we never saw that love. That is why so many who lived there and left turned against God. It was too confusing to seperate the God they preached from what may possibly be a true God of Love. Many years have gone by and I have seperated myself from the Move since the month that Sam Fife died. My parents are still involved and although we have a relationship with them, it is not the type of a relationship that I would want to have with my children. My children have grandparents who love them but really don't know them. I love them but do not really feel like I have parents. I am not saying that there were no good people in the Move, there were but they too were blind-folded and if they did see wrong, did not do anything to stop it. Many people have had their lives torn apart by the Move and the people who were in charge. All I can say now is that it is a bad dream from the past and although I have moved ahead and have built my own life, there are still areas in my life where the past overshadows the present and just can't be avoided. Our children, who have never been a part of it, in small ways are still affected by it. I often wonder if those who influenced the whole Move and the exodus to the "wilderness" ever took into consideration this would have on individuals lives and generations to follow. But then on second thought i guess they really did not care because after all, was the world not supposed to end?

      Comment


      • #4
        I dont know Sam Fife but I mig

        I dont know Sam Fife but I might have seen his brother in Mayberry. I do believe he was protecting the peace. His name is Barney.

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        • #5
          My name is Lorraine Girouard.

          My name is Lorraine Girouard. We came into knowledge of ‘the move’, lead by Sam Fife, back in 1970 (it began on October 2, 1962 – I remembered that, because one of our children was born on that day).

          Within 2 years, we had heard ‘the wilderness message’ and felt the call of God, to follow. We sold everything we owned, my husband quit a good job, we bought a school bus (converted it); then, we (and 8 of our children) were ‘off’ for the wilderness. (August 1, 1972) We were turned back at the Montreal, Quebec border.

          After getting in touch with Sam Fife, at a Pennsylvania convention – we were told to cross the country, on the USA side of the continent. We were also told to stop at Harvey and Mila Erickson’s farm, in Minnesota and wait for a ‘job offer’ from a ministry in Canada – which enabled us to become landed immigrants in this country (where we now live).

          The story goes on and on…for the 3 years and 9 months that we lived at the Graham River farm. (We were there from the first year that it began.) The story can be read in “Uniquely Me!” – a web site that I put online, a few years ago. http://members.tripod.com/~lorgrd/home.html

          I also have another web site that I have online; it contains Christian Poetry (for the most part, it consists of past teachings and experiences…that made me draw closer to God). I wrote under the name of Aimee Love, because Aimee is the name that I counselled under, for the four years that I went into a Christian Chat room…it is my registered Pen Name. http://members.tripod.com/~aimeelo/home.html

          As I read some of the horror stories that are on this Message Board, it brought back memories of things that I had seen, experienced, heard about…so many times, through the years. I could add to those stories, but shall not – because there is no life in them.

          For myself, I’ve learned that nothing comes to us, except it first pass through the hand of God. (This was said by Chuck Swindol, and it’s true.) Nothing can happen to a ‘believer’, unless God allows it…and it always works together for good, because we do “love the Lord and are the called, according to His purpose”…right?!

          Was there error in the teachings? Did prophetic words not come to pass?…we know that the Bible says this is how we can tell if a prophet is a true prophet. We could hash this out forever, but what good would it do…except, perhaps, to take a look within. We can learn a whole lot about ourselves, when we do that: and it’s all good – if we allow God to “create in me a clean heart and renew a right spirit within me”.

          If I stand back and really listen to each one’s heart-cry… if I know anything about that particular person, I can see that the experiences they went through had a purpose. Ultimately, these experiences will cause us to walk closer and closer to God – where we can hear His still, small voice…daily.

          It’s our choice – whether we will become bitter and turn inward; become crippled in our walk with the Lord. Or… we can do as He said, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” Were they right…did they do wrong? Are we always right…and never do wrong?

          I have found great comfort in the ‘Serenity Prayer’… the man who wrote it, had to have known the very things that we wrestle with. Truly inspired writings…do not come out of thin air; they come from life’s experiences.

          And, so…my wish for everyone who has been or still are in ‘the move’…is that they come to know, experientially… that God is Love.
          ********** **

          1 John 4:7-12 “Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.

          Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

          This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him.

          This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.

          Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

          No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.” (NIV)

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          • #6
            niwk: I'd like to thank yo

            niwk: I'd like to thank you for shining a light on an area in my life. I had listened to others and felt they were right - I was wrong! To quote myself (in post, above).
            *****
            For myself, I’ve learned that nothing comes to us, except it first pass through the hand of God. (This was said by Chuck Swindol, and it’s true.) Nothing can happen to a ‘believer’, unless God allows it…and it always works together for good, because we do “love the Lord and are the called, according to His purpose”…right?!
            *****
            Many things happen, all around us, that never came even close to the hand of God. Thank you, again, Niwk, for enlightening me: I really needed to see that.

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks for making the effort t

              Thanks for making the effort to listen... not many do. And sometimes they do, but they don't hear.
              One thing I have learned in my life is that I learn something new everyday. I don't just believe something because someone else said it, I don't have enough trust in me for that. But if it proves to be right, I'll believe it, if it doesn't it gets filed away. But I do believe that when we think we know it all and stop wanting to learn new stuff, we stop hearing what is said around us. In plain english I call it bull-headedness. I do believe that things happen to people and God did not will it or have anything to do with it. Can't go through life blaming God for everything. This world is full of humans and they mess up and they do it all on their own.
              I just want to thank you for being open-minded enough to hear, not many do.

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              • #8
                I was so amazed to find this s

                I was so amazed to find this site. I too was involvled in the move ( I wont dignify it with the capitalization.) I do not want to give specifics because I do not want to be identfied personally. I met Sam Fife personnally, knew Buddy, John, Joe and most of the other father ministry personally so I know what of I speak. I left association with the move in 1982 after more than 10 years of involvement. It is very sad to me to see so much pain and suffering expressed after so long a time. I just wanted to say a few things to those in pain and to those who think they should just move on in their lives. First of all it is a very human reaction to want to shush those in pain.We try to comfort the suffering by telling them to be quiet but mostly we say shshsh! because it is too difficult for us to witness the suffering. Pain is a symptom of injury or dis-ease and saying shush without treating the cause of the pain is pointless. Many, many innocent people were hurt or traumatized by their association with the move, no one, no human being, has the right to judge how much or how deeply another was hurt. No one can say how long it takes some one else to heal, we are all differently abled, some more resilient than others. No one should address those who are still suffering with placebos about time and truth. Anyone who was or is involved in the move should be or have become painfully aware that truth with a Capital T is an illusive quality. In the biological study of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder it has been found that traumatic experiences are stored in the sensory memory of the brain not in language based memory centers. It has been theorized and some good research confirms that trauma victims who are able to talk about their experience are able to shift the memories into the language centers. When this shift occurs the individual has fewer symptoms of the stress disorder i.e. flash backs and being ovewhelmed with emotions that do not match their current living experience. So when Colombine and 9/11 happened the second responders were couselors who encouraged the victims to talk about it. Talking about it, telling the story over and over again helps the victim make sense of the experience and promotes healing.This is of course truth from a "natural science" and not from the Bible so many may not give it credence. It is my belief that all truth is God's truth and we can know the quality of the imformation we receive by the fruit it produces.Many of us who asked questions were silenced or shamed by others in the move. I do not want to do to others what was done to me. I encourage those who are in pain to fully express their pain until they receive healing, other wise how will we know when the healing is trully complete. A few words about forgiveness. To Err is human, to forgive Divine,you may not have the capacity to forgive.Do not be condemned about it Jesus came to forgive not to condemn.That is not to say those who hurt us are blameless, or that they should not be held resonsible for what they did. To live in the truth and to be free we must know the truth and knowing what was wrong with the move and it's ministry is very freeing. To tell the victims that they should not talk about it or that there is something wrong with them that they can not get over it is blaming the victim and hurtful. Jesus said it would be better for religious leaders to have a millstone put around their neck and drowned in a pond than to hurt one of his little ones. The innocent trusting people of the move are not to blame for their own injury. Those who abused their power and position or assumed a place of power over others must be held responsible for their actions.I am not advocating taking them to court, just that those who were hurt need to know that what was done to them was wrong and who should be identified as responsible. I beleive God is the Ultimate Judge and there will be a day of reconning even if it is not public. Those who were in error will face God's truth and judgement about their actions as will we all. As for punishment or retribution, I do not think that is Christ's way. I have not so learned Jesus as to beleive He will seek vengence on my behalf. I think He will offer correction, grace and the re-establishment of right standing with God and man. There is nothing that human beings can do that will make up for the injuries they inflict. Those who hurt us may never say they are sorry but we can find healing and life after suffering any way.Healing is not found in denying injury but in understanding it. I have been told and found comfort in the observation that with every tragedy there is a great mystery and though we may never fully understand the tragedy we can find the peace that passes understanding. We can give to God those things that are God's and leave with man the things that are man's. God did not hurt us, fail us, deny us, or seek to destroy us - human beings did those things. We have not lost our faith we lost a religion. Faith, hope and the ability to love do remain. my thaughts and prayer are with you

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                • #9
                  Hi onechild: i am a regular po

                  Hi onechild: i am a regular poster to "the move" threads and i appreciate your candid post. i found this message board by googling Sam Fife. I wanted to get some information about how it all started and i was looking for first hand experience. I have been in touch with a few past members and present members on these boards and the responses are varied. i do advocate legal action. when a crime is committed, it should be exposed to the daylight and as you say, discussed to death by the person who experienced it. Silencing was a tool used and immediate disbelief in the victim was the method of shaming them into silence. i encourage anyone who has been a victim, a friend of a victim or just a casual observer or witness to seek justice thru our legal system. It is not a perfect system, but it has been somewhat effective in preventing future crimes, at least for the criminal him/her-self. If they go to jail, it stops the crime for a time.(not all judges pass sentences that fit crimes)Anyone who has been a victim of child abuse (and by this I mean ANY physical punishment--i know that is not how our department of human services defines it, but maybe one day..i hope our society will become more educated about what abuse really is) anyway victims of neglect, rape, molestation, extortion, blackmail, etc. MUST, if they want to help prevent others from suffering, they MUST report to the proper authorities. And by proper authorities, i dont mean the pastor. I think children should be taught discipline and i am all for learning the proper way to behave in a loving enviornment, but physical punishment is a tool of those who havent learned any other way or who are just too mentally ill, or too brainwashed and caught up in the "teachings of __________ (insert name)" to think for themselves. The abuses i witnessed as a child were quite enough for me to decide to never physically abuse anyone unless it was a matter of my health or a loved ones health. The problem i have with following the teachings of your God is that the "word" tells people to "spare the rod". I say "spare the child, spoil the rod". So, my point is that when you see that there has been a crime committed, please seek legal action. For the people who lived on farms back when i was a child, the statute of limitations is way long gone. The witnesses are gone and i doubt anyone would have testified on behalf of the victim because people were just too controlled. i would like to hear more from you. I was age 10 thru 18 when i was affiliated with a farm and i had some really good friends there. we were in mississippi.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    oh yeah, on the thing about no

                    oh yeah, on the thing about nothing comes to us but thru God--one of the biggest reasons i started to doubt.

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                    • #11
                      Dear Tangerine: I was not refe

                      Dear Tangerine: I was not referring to criminal behavior when I said I was not advocating taking action in court. I was thinking of the fraud perpetrated against so many trusting souls. In my case trying to face all that pain publicly is not something I would want to do, no damages recovered would compensate for the additional trauma. If these were Christian peaple, as they claim, going to the elders and the father ministry should have been enough to elicit a move toward justice. By their fruit is their true nature revealed. I have come to see that their religiousity has covered a complete lack of morality. They are not able to act morally because they do not even consider the moral nature of their behavior. Their hubris is the stance they take that as God's chosen they are not subject to human moral codes. Christ was supralegal in that he fulfilled the law at it's highest level. The father ministry sidestep the issue of their morality and the morality of their flock by focusing on a higher revelation guiding human behavior and blaming failures of moral judgement on the depraved nature of the "flesh" or the deceit of "satanic influence" on frail humanity.It is interesing to note that when an error has been made the flesh of individuals is blamed and no corporate restitution can be made for individual errors. As I was told "it ( the exploitation of committed hearts) happens all the time on farms and there is nothing we can do about it". I realized that if they the father ministry could not or would not do anything about it, they were not much of covering. I thaught I had traded unquestioning obedience for support and nurturing. I found then and continue to believe I was and am better off taking care of and protecting my self.I like the idea of a handmade life, a kind of do-it yourself walk of faith. Take the scraps left from that other life and patch together into a durable and comfortable well worn way of life. I first started questioning "the message" when it did not comform to my personal experience of God. When I was asked by a father ministry why I was in fellowhsip with the move if I so deeply questioned the basic message, my answer was that they were the only people I had known since I was 15. I loved the people not the message. The question " why are you here?" was freeing. I left to pursue my real life and the fellowship I had with the Lord of my childhood not the god that led the move. My comments about letting others who moved on talk about their hurt until they are comforted and healed comes from the fact that when I left I had no one with whom to talk. No one who could affirm my feelings or my thaughts. I had no one with whom I could sort out the craziness.I talked to other Christians with mixed reviews, nothing like being an obvious ex-cultite to dampen the enthusiasim of newfound friends. I really did not enjoy having my pain be the most interesting topic at the prayer circle. I know my solitude was damaging and maintianed my inner sense of failure and loss. Hearing others speak the same perspective I held in secret so long has been a pleasent suprise. I just hope that this forum gives those in pain the freedom to express the pain and so come to terms with the injury in a compassionate and empathetic cloud of witnesses. So while I do not see what good it would do to take the move to court after all these years for financial exploitation, I clearly understand the desire to do so. I was not really thinking about the criminal nature of the ministries actions. It may be that the father ministry are much like the Catholic Church hierarchy who protected pedofiles rather than dishonor the image of the church. This would be more than a shame, it would be criminal. Just my thaughts. onechildofGod.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Tangerine: I forgot to say I w

                        Tangerine: I forgot to say I was in the North and only visited Bowens Mill for conventions. I was never on or visited a Mississippi farm. I grew up on the fringe of the move and lived on a farm from age 21 to 28. It was a wilderness experience alright I never felt so lost. love onechildofGod

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                        • #13
                          B.C by any chance or northern

                          B.C by any chance or northern U.S.A.?

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                          • #14
                            Hey onechild, thanks for your

                            Hey onechild, thanks for your post. You are so right about healing thru talking about the past. I am not sure either about the financial aspect. Have you seen the link to the group that is mentioned in the other threads on sam fife? if not let me know? i would like to talk with you more.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I have never seen anything but

                              I have never seen anything but this thread. I am new to the computer in some ways and never thaught about old moviees talking this way. I really do not want to identify myself because my parents could be hurt by my reflections on the move. They are old people now and fragile. If we can talk with out me disclosing specifics about who I am, I would like to. Seems so funny to be so sort of clandestine about it but hearts have been so carelessly cast aside that I remain cautious. It was always my observation that common decency was set aside for corporate order and courtesy, not considered a fruit of the Spirit, received short service in the move. Individual people could be the soul of kindness while corporateness was callous and arrogant.In looking back, the times I felt the most certian that I was moving in divine order were the times I was the most wrong and in which I wronged others the most. I try to be kind to my parents now whether they deserve it or not,I would rather be kind than certain.So if you will respect my desire to protect their privacy I would like to talk with you also.with best intentions onechildofGod

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