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  • Hammites

    I recently heard a member of the TT's refer to "Hammites." Firstly I heard the person say something like "hahmyte" "HUH?" I thought. What's a Hahmyte?" Then I realized the person was referring to the descendants of Noah.

    When the person originally said the word, although I didn't know what they meant, I knew it wasn't good. It kind of had a "nigger"-type disdain to its expression. What the person meant were "blacks."

    I dont' want to say in what context it was used, other than that the Hammites were carrying-on, (again). (Not my word's...theirs).

    I realized that the word Hammite meant something more to this person than it did to me and that it was derogatory. I've also heard that there is some kind of teaching about the "Hammites" in the TT's that is somewhat bigotted. (My words, perhaps I have overstated this.)

    From a person in the Adah (community) which professes love and understanding, I found this to be in somewhat of a conflict to that love message.

    Can anyone fill me in a bit on all this Hammite stuff and what they mean? Thank you.

  • #2
    Here are several teachings on

    Here are several teachings on the subject...

    http://neirr.org/cham.html

    http://neirr.org/unravel.html

    When your done there, you can go to this link,
    http://neirr.org/mcconclu.html
    click on the red "Teachings" link http://neirr.org/teaching.html and read more. Also any of the red headings are links that are all very informative...

    In my personal experiences, the Cham teachings were usually not spoke of too often and were also taught to the Chammite members privately, usually by the black elders Yohanan Abraham or Lo Nekar.

    It was hard to get a straight or affirmative answer from other shephards because they werent sure themselves. It seemed one of the TTs only "grey" areas.
    I asked the question was the whole black race cursed or just the Canaanites. I heard several answers. The other blacks started slavery by incarcerating Canaans' decendants in Africa...blah blah blah... then also that they were all cursed and that slavery was good for them because they needed Shem to rule over their wicked hearts and that the curse can only be lifted by joining the TT.They believe Abraham Lincoln was a tyrant and Martin Luther King was pure evil. They promote the books "The South was Right" and "Time on the Cross". Both which are pro-slavery... Also that ALLthose outside of the TT were twice cursed because they were rebellious and had come out of the tents of Shem and served themselves. This supposedly is reflected through their lives and neighborhoods(ghettos) in the USA. Crime, drugs, rape, murder, gangs, aids etc.
    So it is thought it takes Cham to recruit Cham. Thats why several years ago all the blacks in the TT were sent to live in the 2 communities in Georgia. The same idea went with Ithaca Ny and the Jews in the TT.

    Comment


    • #3
      >So it is thought it takes

      >So it is thought it takes Cham to recruit Cham. >Thats why several years ago all the blacks in >the TT were sent to live in the 2 communities >in Georgia. The same idea went with Ithaca Ny >and the Jews in the TT.


      Hmmmm... sounds like biblically justified racism, a la the south all over again! OY!

      "We want them blacks over thar and them Jioooooooz over thar!" "Don't go a marryin' 'em!"

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      • #4
        I had just read the 91 teachin

        I had just read the 91 teaching from Island Pond and Yoneq's teaching. It REALLY upset me. REALLY. I guess I was correct in what I had sensed. According to this teaching, a black person, who is not a slave, is going to go wild and crazy, unless they are in the TT's, because they are supposed to be slaves. This is exactly what I had discerned from the member's comment to me, that was at the heart of my original inquiry.

        Thank you, David.

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        • #5
          is this why 'no pork',

          is this why 'no pork', because according to them, Cham ain't quite kosher?

          (sorry... I couldn't resist)

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          • #6
            I personally sat in on teachin

            I personally sat in on teachings about Cham where I was told that the KKK "started out as very righteous" poeple, and really nothing negative was said about them (the KKK).

            Exyathed, did you ever sit through any of those types of meetings while you were in Brunswick?

            I knew African/Americans in there that were absolutely mortified when those teachings came out, but did not know what to do about it. They simply got depressed and quiet. They waited for things to change, which actually MAY be what is happening!

            The TT are very curious group in that they change in their teachings as they go along. I think exyathed was right about what he said about how they vascillate.

            (Side note- I think this is a means of being able to maintain control, because then they don't even have to be nailed to their own teachings!)

            On one hand, they are truly trying to figure it all out... ("We are a faulty people").

            On the other, what exactly ARE they trying to figure out?!

            I experienced so many different sides of the Chammite teaching, my personal feeling is that it is a doctrine that is BEING developed, not carved in stone, like so many of the other teachings.

            Exyathed can tell you about what they said about him going on a waiting period with a Chammite woman (another thread which shocked me, because I had been with the same woman when she was NOT ALLOWED to go on a waiting period with someone BECAUSE he was white!) -

            Exy's case was first I had ever heard of something like that in there, but evidence that perhaps they are "making it up as they go along".

            Comment


            • #7
              I know this about the TT's

              I know this about the TT's teaching, as I have been watching them for awhile. I mean the fact that their teaching and positions evolve. I guess the fact that they are the only ones who have the Ruach Hakodesh (Holy Spirit) enables them to make it up as they go and to be right about it, beyond reproach and beyond criticism, as they do.

              KKK started out right,huh? Hmmm... I am not going to go out on a limb and proclaim the TT's are a white supremacist group. They are not, but they sure do have some undercurrents of white supremecy in some of Yoneq's teachings. They are Yoneq's, clearly his and not God's. You more I read his stuff, the more clear I am on the fact that the stuff he teaches is way off.

              This whole Chammite thing has my family and me sick.

              Comment


              • #8
                No obro, I never did. They mus

                No obro, I never did. They must had had them when I wasnt there. Shachar also was close to a waiting period with Bekor,the artist, in Jog Run but they wisked her off to Brunswick and they never did get permission to corresponde although Bekor tried his best to get it. He was and still is heartsick.
                They also said she lost her hair due to the fact that she resented being Chammite and was attracted to only white men...

                Comment


                • #9
                  I heard the Ham teaching for t

                  I heard the Ham teaching for the first time when I wasn't even baptized yet. So, at least in 1988 it wasn't a secret teaching or anything, everybody got to hear it, community members and guests, regardless of their skin color. (Well, at the time there were only 5 black people living in Sus anyway... Yochanan Abraham and his family.)

                  The brother next to me saw that I was fuming and mentioned it to Yoceph who was teaching that night. Yoceph stopped and asked me if I had a hard time with this teaching, and I almost yelled: "If I have a hard time??? I wonder what he (pointing towards Yochanan Abraham) thinks about all that???!!!"

                  But Yochanan only gently smiled at me and then explained very patiently that he had no problem whatsoever with that teaching. Yes, he said, God had cursed the descendants of Ham for their rebellious, stubborn and resentful nature, and (for those outside of the Edah) He has established an order that would bring healing to them... just like the order He has established between men and women.

                  BUT through Yahshua that curse was lifted
                  , he continued. In His Body there are no differences between black, white or yellow people. We ALL serve one another, ALL of us strive to follow the example of our Master Yahshua who was the GREATEST servant of all! In the Edah, the Hamites actually teach the Shemites and Japhethites how to serve because they have learned to be humble and submissive. As it says in the Scriptures, the first will be last and the last will be first. I am no longer a slave because Yahshua set me free, from the curse of Ham, from the curse of sin, and I am so thankful! But you know what? I nevertheless consider myself to be a slave. A bond slave to my Master and my brothers. Bond slaves were those men who used to be slaves and were then given their freedom by their masters, but they chose to stay with their masters because they had treated them well, cared for them and watched over them. That's what the Shemites are supposed to do for the Hamites, outside the Body. Our Father never wanted black people to be starved and beaten to death, all those atrocities that you connect with the word slavery is not what God had in mind when He established His order.

                  etc. etc. etc.

                  Well, Yochanan was an elder in Sus at the time, telling a lot of white brothers what to do, so I eventually shut my mouth. The way he explained the teaching, it did make sense, in a way...

                  And I must say in the defense of the community, that at least back then the word Hamite was never used disdainfully, it didn't have a negative connotation. In fact, one of the catch phrases was always: What a demonstration of Yahshua's power it is when people see us, Shem, Ham and Japeth living together in unity and serving each other.

                  Nevertheless it was taught that the races shouldn't mix. So, when did that change?

                  Kind regards,

                  Ully

                  P.S.: On a little side note: Andy_n, I just love your puns!!! Unkosher Cham! ROFL! ... I didn't get the one about the semi-colon though, which has been bugging me for two days now... LOL! (I'm German, so sometimes I miss the more subtle details.)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Good to see you here Ully.
                    Y

                    Good to see you here Ully.
                    You must admit thaty the temperment towards blacks in Europe, especially Deutschland! Actually when I was there the locals were fascinated by them and you couldnt compete with them when it came to the frauleins. The "niggers" of Germany were the Turks.
                    Also it was apparent that the comminities in Europe were way more zealous than their American counterparts. You could tell that just by observing and listening to Yohannan Abrahams children.
                    Amaciyah even expressed that if he were to marry that Chammite woman(she also expressed this)he was on a waiting period with in England that he would never bring her children to the States or have their own children in fear of them being defiled by the American youths...

                    Y.A. was Yoneqs poster child for Chammites and no one questioned him or Yoneq! They both were larger than life!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      As a friend of the community t

                      As a friend of the community the teaching on Cham is my greatest stumbling block. I have spent a lot of time speaking to the brothers and sisters about it. It seems worse when I read the teachings away from them, because when I am with them, I see the love they have for all nations: Cham, Yapeth and Shem. They do not just tolerate (such a thin form of love) but they lay down their lives! They would gladly serve Cham, give up their beds, there possessions, their time. I live in a very white collar area and even though we all preach tolerance, none of my friends are anything other than middle class Shem. There does seem to be an invisible wall. I donít want to get high and mighty about how loving I am toward my Cham brothers and sisters, when I hardly know them. Everyone I know claims passionate opposition to slavery. For all our talk so much Africa grinds in abject poverty. And just look at us, politically correct Shem, we buy MADE IN INDONESIA etc. all the time. Isnít our whole existence is based on a form of slavery? The west is oppressive in itís greed and many are suffering for our lifestyle hunger. My hope in the twelve tribes is that I would at last not be guilty. I would live in a nation where there was no rich or poor and everyone was invited.

                      I cannot speak for the twelve tribes but here are a few answers I received to some of the questions being voiced here. I know that the twelve tribes do open forum on the subject and they can express much better than I can.

                      The word Cham is not derogatory at all. I am pretty sure it means hot.

                      Races do intermarry in the body, but they believe it takes special grace.

                      Whether Cham, Yapeth or Shem there is no freedom without messiah. Everyone is a slave of God in the obedience that leads to righteousness or they are enslaved in the world to sin that leads to death (Romans 6). Every race needs the One Good Master in order to be saved from this evil world.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        "I would live in a nation

                        "I would live in a nation where there was no rich or poor and everyone was invited."

                        If this is the case, you had better look further than the Twelve Tribes! They are riddled with hidden castes...

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                        • #13
                          ... and not everyone is invite

                          ... and not everyone is invited, as those who ask serious questions are excluded. They don't want followers of YHVH so much as followers of Yoneq.

                          Thanks Ully - I'm glad you are here also. Your input is always enlightening. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            xy - what do you mean shachar

                            xy - what do you mean shachar lost her hair.... cut off? or fell out?

                            why the jews in ithaca - are there a high population in ithaca (as opposed to elsewhere?)

                            anon-e ummm how are they not a supremacist group? they think that whites are to be served by the others.... that the proper place for blacks is as slaves - if that is not supremacy then what is?

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                            • #15
                              Well, they don't actively

                              Well, they don't actively purse a militaristic agenda of anarchy teaching white supremacy and the putting down of blacks. As a matter of fact, if you kind of tilt your head and slant your brain, you can kind of see how they are coming about believing that doctrine as biblical. I certainly don't agree or believe it and I find myself kind of feeling "yucky" being in any kind of place that seems to "justify" this twisted teaching.

                              Bottom Line: The teaching seems to never have been overtly meant to be biggotted or hate filled, but the comment issued by the member in question (why I originally asked the question) definitely was. You would have had to have been there to know what I mean. (Don't think that the person in question was a new member, either.) Personally, however, I think that the teaching is very biggotted, although it wasn't meant to be so and if you understand what I meant by saying that, MORE POWER TO YOU! ;)

                              A.

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