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  • Re: A Higher Power

    Hope this is the right spot! I'll begin again..

    Btw, Nabashalam and Threadmin, where's the winking emoticon? I depend on that when I want to let someone know that my comments are made without rancor!! ;-)

    I accept what can be proven, documented, and tested until it is established as a fact. Only then will I “believe” something to be true
    That's the thing, Dodge.. The existence of a Higher Power has been proven, documented, and tested by far more people than have proven the existence, say, of things like galaxies outside of our own, or dna structure, or the many other things we accept as fact basically because someone(s) in position as an authority on the subject has presented a case that we can accept. Do you believe there are galaxies outside of our own? If so, on what basis, since I daresay that you've never experienced them personally or been to one. Yet I'm guessing you do believe their existence is an established fact. So we could say that your belief is based upon faith in the opinions and research of others. Every civilization from millenia has known there is a Higher Power, even if they disagreed on It's name or nature. Matter of fact, every civilization is built around belief that this Power exists. That's one heck of a lot more proof, documentation and testing than most every other established fact. If people who believe in a Higher power are stupid and/or uniformed, as you often imply, than you are labeling almost all of mankind that has ever existed, because the percentage of the human race who have denied It's existence is infinitely minute by comparison. If eight billion plus people from every civilization have expressed belief in a Higher power based upon experience, education, their history and personal faith, then how can that possibly be considered less of an established fact than the naysayers who most likely have only numbered in the millions, at best, since the time that civilized man has been upon this earth? Not believing in a Higher Power depends on ignoring thousands of years of established fact, because It has been proven over and over and over again..

  • #2
    Stage director.... on the tool bar on the quick reply just click on the smiley face and it gives you multiple options...

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    • #3
      Hi Stage. You wrote that the existence of “a higher power” has been “proven, documented, and tested.” What are your sources for this statement?

      You ask if I believe that “there are galaxies outside of our own.” Of course. Here’s a link at the Hubble site where you can see pictures of other galaxies:

      http://hubblesite.org/gallery/album/galaxy/

      Do you have any pictures of this so-called “higher power” that you’re talking about?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by dodge View Post
        Hi Stage. You wrote that the existence of “a higher power” has been “proven, documented, and tested.” What are your sources for this statement?

        You ask if I believe that “there are galaxies outside of our own.” Of course. Here’s a link at the Hubble site where you can see pictures of other galaxies:

        http://hubblesite.org/gallery/album/galaxy/

        Do you have any pictures of this so-called “higher power” that you’re talking about?

        http://emilygracewriting.files.wordp...iley-face1.gif

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        • #5
          http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._7452016_n.jpg
          Last edited by dodge; 08-16-2011, 04:18 PM.

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          • #6
            How did this naturally-occurring infinitesimal singularity naturally occur 13.7 billion years ago?





            http://www1.ttcn.ne.jp/%7Ea-nishi/torus/ani01.gif

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            • #7
              Why does everyone that believes in a high power not believe that not everything began as egg. I mean for example when I take cake flour and certain ingredients and mix it, it becomes a cake, however I start with a cake all I have to do is ice it. God is able to create a whirl wind or turn a staff into a snake back into a staff, is not possibl to create the earth whole with all the aging process in place and all the aged dinosaurs bones in place as well as will as many other fossils.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by turtle View Post
                Why does everyone that believes in a high power not believe that not everything began as egg. I mean for example when I take cake flour and certain ingredients and mix it, it becomes a cake, however I start with a cake all I have to do is ice it. God is able to create a whirl wind or turn a staff into a snake back into a staff, is not possible to create the earth whole with all the aging process in place and all the aged dinosaurs bones in place as well as will as many other fossils.
                God would not do such a thing.
                All is done according to the Divine pattern.


                Genesis 1:25-27

                New King James Version (NKJV)

                25 And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
                26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
                27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

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                • #9
                  As far as your question of "where the singularity came from" -- The best minds in the world have been thinking about that question, FOAK, where this so-called “singularity” that evolved into the present Universe over a period of almost fourteen billion years “came from.” I could point you to some sources that may help you understand the current thinking.

                  Professor Ned Wright of UCLA has a website that answers a lot of question concerning cosmology that might be useful.

                  http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmology_faq.html

                  Maurizio Gasperini attempts to answer the question of a “pre-Big Bang scenario,” and “the transition from the pre-Big-Bang to the post-Big-Bang regime, which somehow represents the birth of the Universe in the form we are currently observing.” He describes “a process of scattering and reflection of the Wheeler-DeWitt wave function in mini-superspace.”

                  (Page 150 of The Universe Before the Big Bang: Cosmology and String Theory by Maurizio Gasperini, copyright 2008.)

                  A more accessible explanation can be found In The Grand Design, where Stephen Hawking tells us that a singularity is “a point in space-time at which a physical quantity becomes infinite” (page 186), and on page 129 he tells us that to a physicist, a singularity is where Einstein’s theory breaks down and therefore can’t be used to predict how the Universe began, only how it evolved afterward.

                  However, Hawking does get to the issue of the origin of the Universe, and explains that “general relativity has to be replaced by a more complete theory” that includes gravity. Even without a complete quantum theory of gravity, “we do know that the origin of the Universe was a quantum event,” and therefore “it should be accurately described by the Feynman sum over histories.”

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Feynman

                  Hawking’s answer is that M-theory is the “only model that has all the properties we think the final theory ought to have.” According to M-theory, says Hawking, “ours is not the only universe. Instead, M-theory predicts that a great many universes were created out of nothing,” and that “their creation does not require the intervention of some supernatural being or god. Rather, these multiple universes arise naturally from physical law. They are a prediction of science.” (pages 8-9)

                  M-theory is actually a network of theories that describes phenomena within a certain range. Wherever their ranges overlap, the various theories in the network agree, so they can all be said to be parts of the same theory. But no single theory within the network can describe every aspect of the Universe--all the forces of nature, the particles that feel those forces, and the framework of space and time in which it all plays out.

                  Hawking goes on to explain that M-theory has eleven space-time dimensions, not ten; and that M-theory can contain not only vibrating strings but also point particles, two-dimensional membranes, three-dimensional blobs, and other objects that are more difficult to picture. The laws of M-theory allow for different universes with different apparent laws, depending on how the internal space is curled.

                  I hope this helps you on the road to comprehending where the "big bang singularity" might have "come from." I would suggest, if you really want to understand these things, that you spend some time reading the readily available material by experts in the field.

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                  • #10
                    Psalms 102:25 KJV
                    (25) Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.

                    God created the earth in one day In the beginning God created the heavens and earth, Then it shown how it was created on day two

                    Genesis 1:6-10 KJV
                    (6) And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
                    (7) And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
                    (8) And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
                    (9) And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
                    (10) And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

                    Think how think and wide the earth is. If it was created by layers where layers come from, if not developed at the time of creation, not all layers just some of them. The ones we have no explanation for. beyond Bible dating, which is what how many thousands of years over six thousand from adam to noah and two thousand from noah to Christ.

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                    • #11
                      In other words neither you or your so called best minds in the world know the answer.
                      This is not just a universe question it is a where we come from question.
                      Science is not equipped to answer that question.

                      Sorry Dodge i really didn't think you would be fool enough to try and answer that question.
                      It was rhetorical on my end.
                      i already knew the answer.




                      Who lit the fuse?
                      http://www.daviddarling.info/images/Big_Bang_WMAP.jpg

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                      • #12
                        Hi FOAK -- Since you responded to my last post with “neither you or your so-called best minds in the world know the answer,” it’s obvious you didn’t read or understand what I wrote. The multiverse isn’t a theory, it’s a prediction based on reasonable extrapolations of gravity and quantum field theory. The idea of a multiple universe isn’t considered speculative or implausible any more by many physicists. Concepts about the multiverse come from quantum mechanics, and string theory-based cosmology.

                        If you made an effort to read credible experts in the field, you would be equipped to respond intelligently. I would suggest Visions of the Multiverse by Steven Manly, professor of physics at the University of Rochester (Ph.D. in high energy physics from Columbia). In this book, Professor Manly will guide you through multiverse concepts and provide you with non-technical background to understand them in an unintimidating and conversational tone.

                        http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._6889800_n.jpg

                        I downloaded that book into my Kindle some time ago, and am slowly going through it. I think you rely too much on the Bible and in your new age philosophy of “everything you need to know can be found within.” It shows in your distrust of science in general, and in the way you communicate in a cryptic and convoluted manner; and the way you compensate for substance with large images, youtube videos, biblical verses and large blocks of copy-and-paste quotations.

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                        • #13
                          Wow! You guys make such pretty pictures! Maybe we should have a computer graphics art contest!

                          The bigger the picture the bigger the insecurity being compensated for... Right?

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                          • #14
                            Not really, Nabashalam. When I looked for an image of the book that I was suggesting FOAK read, it came in that size. All I did was copy it and pasted it here. It was not I who determined how big it was. Therefore, “the bigger the picture the bigger the insecurity being compensated for” is only your projection.

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                            • #15
                              Actually Dodge it was meant as a giggle...

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