Brought over from old thread
Author Message
mklo
Member
Username: mklo
Post Number: 89
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 67.185.118.158
Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 12:44 pm:
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"I don't care what you think. I was here first, God is still God, the Bible is still the Bible, and if you don't like it, you can just leave."
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 244
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 12:44 pm:
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"What we are doing is more important than what we are thinking!"
"We can think about it, we can pray about it, we can ask about it, but what are we doing about it?"
"Sometimes the best thing to do is: Nothing." (Psalms 25:3)(Rom 14:23, 12:7)(1 Cor 4:5)
"Look before you leap. And don't leap if you don't like what you see!"
"Just because everybody else is 'doing it', doesn't mean I got to!"
"1 million lemmings can all be wrong!"
"Don't play leap-frog with your life!"
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 245
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 12:55 pm:
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"The ends never, ever justifies the means!"
"Good means produce good ends, and bad means will one day come to an end!"
"When one is forced, it is done because I have to. When one is called, it is done because I like it, I love it, I want more of it!"
"How can I be called of Christ, if I do it to please men?"
"Organizationalism compels the pleasure of another man than Christ Jesus!"
"Show me a preacher who is placed in a pulpit by another man, and I will show you a preacher who shall be removed from a pulpit by another man... that he has not pleased!"
"Organizational labors and serving Christ are an unequal yoking that shall not abide together..."
"A company man is a company's man, not God's!"
"If you're on Pastor's team, you're on God's team!" (Matthew 6:24)(1 Cor 10:21)
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 252
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 1:52 am:
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"You can't legislate righteousness!"
So, why all the rules?
He's right, and he wasn't ever trying to legislate righteousness, but rather all the rules and changes thereof were always meant to legislate the business!
1) Chaperoning rules: Legislating Partnerships.
People getting married in the ministry was always put in a negative light, without his personal aproval:
"I don't care if you ever get married! You didn't come here to get married!"
"You're not in love, you're in lust!"
The church business is more important than marriage, and the only good marriage is an aproved marriage of good business partners!
2) Fellowship Rules: Legislating Loyalty.
Contrary to Scriptural liberty in the body of Christ. Childish in it's nature. Intended only for political control and efforts to contain or block out 'subversive' behavior, or disloyal talk. It is for the sake of loyalty to the business!
3) TV Rules: Legislating Consecration.
Not for righteousness of faith, but for consecration to the business, by legislating against 'wasted' time: entertainments, etc...
Proof that the rules legislation had absolutely nothing to do with righteousness, but all to do with the business:
The rule brought in years ago of adulterers and fornicators lose their ministerial license for life. Why?
"If your Christianity don't matter to you, then maybe your ministry will!"
So, you see, it's not righteousness nor Christianity that is so important, but the business of the 'ministry': productivity of souls!
The rule was later changed to allow for restoration of license after a season. Why?
"Because a man ought to have some hope."
Of what? Heaven? Jesus Christ, The hope of glory? All have that by confession of faith and repentance. No, but rather the 'hope' of productivity in the ministerial business!
And who was it that the rule was changed for? Some poor slob out there trying to get right? Nah! No doubt some 'favorite son'. Anyone that has the hope of potential in business success!
tyworld
New member
Username: tyworld
Post Number: 19
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 70.90.19.97
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 12:40 pm:
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Authority Quotations
Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn:
You can have power over people as long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything, he's no longer in your power.
Carl Sagan:
But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
Cyrus Curtis:
There are two kinds of people who never amount to much: those who cannot do what they are told, and those who can do nothing else.
Dwight D. Eisenhower:
You do not lead by hitting people over the head - that's assault, not leadership.
HH the Dalai Lama:
This is my simple religion. There is no need for temples; no need for complicated philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our temple; the philosophy is kindness.
Henry Steele Commager:
Men in authority will always think that criticism of their policies is dangerous. They will always equate their policies with patriotism, and find criticism subversive.
James Russell Lowell:
He who is firmly seated in authority soon learns to think security, and not progress, the highest lesson of statecraft.
Kenneth Blanchard:
The key to successful leadership today is influence, not authority.
Leonard H. Robbins:
How a minority,
Reaching majority,
Seizing authority,
Hates a minority!
Leonardo da Vinci:
Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using his intelligence; he is just using his memory.
Mark Twain:
In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination, from authorities who have not themselves examined the questions at issue but have taken them at second-hand from other non-examiners, whose opinions about them were not worth a brass farthing.
Autobiography, 1959
Mark Twain:
Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their guard and give you an opportunity to commit more.
Molly Ivins:
What you need is sustained outrage...there's far too much unthinking respect given to authority.
Rabindranath Tagore:
Power takes as ingratitude the writhing of its victims.
Stanley Milgram:
The disappearance of a sense of responsibility is the most far-reaching consequence of submission to authority.
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 258
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 4:35 am:
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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination, from authorities who have not themselves examined the questions at issue but have taken them at second-hand from other non-examiners, whose opinions about them were not worth a brass farthing."
It's like the Catholic high school I subbed for. They had theology classes, so I asked them what they were being taught (I was not yet a Christian). They told me things that the church 'Fathers' taught: Augustine, etc... I asked them about the Bible, and they said: "Oh, we don't study that..." And so I says: "But you're only being taught what ancient commentators had to say about the Bible. So, why don't you read the bible for yourselves and see what you have to say about it??"
"There is only one authority of the Truth: The Bible. All else are commentaries, some right, some wrong, to whatever degree..."
"We don't judge the Bible by other books, but we judge all other books by the Bible..." (Acts 17:11)(Rom 3:4)
"Mark Twain was a great story-teller, and no Christian at all..."
"Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater..."
measinner
Advanced Member
Username: measinner
Post Number: 522
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 4.242.63.95
Posted on Saturday, May 20, 2006 - 9:11 pm:
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Some bootlick of the NTCC leadership posted:
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quote:
"Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren"
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From all the testimony I've heard, and NTCCers know whether or not this is true, only the first part of that verse is stringently maintained at NTCC churches. Rebuking younger men, rather than intreating them as brethren, appears to be quite de rigueur.
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 340
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.73.185
Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 10:32 am:
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Bootlick? Is that like Boot-strap? or I don't give a lick about boots? or I like boots so much I lick them? So, are they lick-booters? or booties? Isn't that the same word for many butts, or bums? So, maybe he is a bootylicker? Maybe he likes, or licks the booty, or spoils, from the big boots above him??
Confusius say:
"He that licketh boots must beware not to get face stepped on..." (Ha!)
"Lick not the boot to low, lest the boot step on the tongue!"
"Lick the boot to low, and lick up more than just the boot, but also what the boot step on!" (Ha!)
"Anit-chtrist followers have the mark of the beast in the foreheads and/or hands, and loyalty followers have the mark of the boot on their tongues!"
"You can always tell a loyalty follower by the imprint of his Leader's boot on his tongue"
"I proudly wear the shape of my master's boot on my tongue!"
"Hey Bro, what's the shape of a boot doing on your face? It's the mark of my master..."
"The real worshippers of gods on earth lick not just the tops of the boots, but the bottoms as well!"
So, are the bottoms of boots called the boot booties?? (HAHAHAHAHAHA!)
Song:
"These boots were made for walkin', and walkin's what they'll do, and one of these days these boots are gonna walk all over you!"! (Ha! NTCC National Anthem?!?)
-Especially the bootlickers! They like it, they love it, they want more of it! Just like I used to, but now them marks are long gone from my forehead, face, hands, and tongue! Not to mention that stupid little pen knife of his out of my back! No more blood of Jesus being drained out of me by false-minister following!
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 341
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.73.185
Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 10:49 am:
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"I was here first!"
Right, and not Jesus...
Condemnation of own words, that it is not Jesus' church, but Davis'!
Actually, it's not completely accurate to say he was there first, because he took a congregation from Church of God with him, like Denis did from his own, so really it is more correct to say:
"I was here with the others first, but I'm the only one left, because they all left me!"
So, the current departures are like Deja Vu all over again?
What did Davis say about those who keep getting married over again? "Maybe you're the problem!"
Ha! Davis, maybe you're the problem! And the generational leader following you, like all proselytes, are made by you a two-fold problem! twice as worse! My God, just think of it! Kekel in charge! On second thought, don't think of it, but rather 'Think on these things...' instead of that!
And Denis, being a really well trained, proselyte took two-fold as much with himself, than Davis did with himself! Bible really is the law of the universe! Which also proves, greater works shall ye do than your master! Sow bad & Reap two-fold!
"I trained you, and I can train another!"
Davis' response to a 'rebellious' trainee...
Out of own mouth once again: He's doing the training and building and making...
"Thar's a whole lotta trainin' goin' on out thar!"
"Ministers are not trainers, nor coaches!"
"Ministers of God serve the people for the Lord's sake, and for the peoples' prosperity, but ministers of Lucifer train the people for the church program's sake, and for the coach's success!"
matthew_wadsworth
New member
Username: matthew_wadsworth
Post Number: 22
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 137.229.66.207
Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 2:41 pm:
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"have enough wisdom to not tell the visitors the rules"
They know the rules are wacked, its why they don't want anyone to know.
I thought Christians did not join secret organizations such as the masons, because all that a Christian does should be open, honest, in the light, not secret, sneaky, subversive.
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 346
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.73.185
Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 3:28 pm:
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One Christian's open-faced honesty is another cult-leader's lack of 'wisdom'!"
"The wisdom from above is first pure, and the wisdom from beneath is first sneaky!" (James 3:15-17)
SneakyKekelly!
I mean, it's not like it's unheard of for colleges, especially Bible Colleges to have rules, so why all the secrecy? Because of the hypocrisy that the rules are for good moral conduct, and not for leaders' immoral personal control! And normal human beings see the difference right off, that is why we needed to be gradually sanctified to the leadership standards and cult, before we would readily accept such plain folly!
"Farmers don't want to count their chickens before they hatch, and church builders don't want to run off the contacts before they proselytize!"
(Fellowship rules, permission to borrow rules, wall rules, store rules after class!!!, etc...)
You ever begin to notice how, just like socialism and communism and fascism, personal control rules that are intrusive by nature are always justified as 'for our own good'?
You need permission from us to borrow, or even lend something to another 'brother', ney fellow 'minister', lest that one potentially take advantage of you, you poor child, lacking in basic judgment!
That is why they are called: Childish rules, because they are rules made for children, who are too stupid, immature, and totally lacking in any sense of common adult judgment to figure these things out for themselves, so we need Momma and Pappa cult-leaders to do it for us? And these are 'preachers', 'leaders' by example in training? Right!
They are mostly young pup ex-one-term GIs recruited from the ranks, while away from home, usually for the first time, and dropped into a boot camp for hustling up even more recruits elsewhere.
That’s the whole reason for denying the obvious: It is nothing but a business-scheme perpetrated in a largely untapped area, thru the corrupted device called a 'Serviceman’s Home', which no longer has any semblance to a home away from home in the pastor & wife's own home (Mom & Pop Gaylord), but is rather now nothing but a recruiting center & business house for Graham, and it's church-building programs elsewhere!
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 372
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.73.185
Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 1:12 pm:
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"Those who desire to make their mark in the ministry of God, leave the trodding of their footprints upon the backs of the sheep and the foulness of their toes in the unrestful waters. They wrest the Scriptures to push the people, and there is no rest nor peace in Mudville. Jack-booted thugs in the churches of God!"
-The evil effect of Ezek 34:19 upon Psalms 23:2...
But, if we return to the Word of God as it is written, then the One true Shepherd, Jesus, shall make us to lie down again beside the still waters, that are still unchanged by the additions and subtractions of great mark-making men in the church-building business!
The promised good effect of John 10:14 upon Ezek 34:19...
(Message edited by bro derrick on May 30, 2006)
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 376
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.73.185
Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 11:27 pm:
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"As Christians we have no best friends!"
Wrong on two counts:
1) Jesus. He is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother: The closest friend, closer than any other brother, we have!
2) Husband or wife: one flesh. For this cause we leave mother, father, sister, brother, friend, etc... and cleave to wife and husband. Closer to, and more responsible in our actions towards, than any other person on earth! Including the cult-ruling so-called minister of corruption...
"You're not in love! You're in lust!"
"You marry to avoid fornication..."
Twisted teaching that undermines the marriage (Setting up for higher loyalty and greater love for the really wonderful 'Pastor', over the marriage bond...)
1) If it is not love, but only lust, then obviously not saved, because God is love, and they that are born of God loveth God and one another... Christians know what 'true' love is!
2) Paul was not teaching that we get married just to avoid fornication! But, rather, he first taught it's good not to touch sensually before marriage, lest lust take over, and you cannot contain, and have to get married right away, to avoid fornication, because you did not heed the Scriptural instruction on good courtship!
In other words: Marrying to avoid fornication is the 2nd best reason to marry, but love, romance, equalness of faith, and friendship is the 1st best way to get started!! (And there is no 'timeline', nor rule of 'wall', on how long that takes!)
But, since people bear witness to what they know by experience, we see that this dude teaching such bilge-water was only passing on his own fouled-up relationship to others. Sort of like misery loves company! (Isn't that just plain disgusting and sick??) And how many have had their minds evilly-affected by such junk?
"You oughtta be glad your husband is not a lover-boy!"
O God, help us from such go-getting devils, who purposely ruin the relationship of others, making them feel 'guilty' for wanting romance in the marriage, for the sake of the 'higher' consecration to the church-building business!
Ye builders, that have rejected the Head of the corner!! And demolished the rest of the wall too!! All for success...
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 422
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.73.185
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 11:31 am:
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"Punkish people make puny statements without proving their point..."
"I believe I have made my point..."
-Kluckel, FACTNET, (Concerning why certain FACTNETTERS are devils and flesh workers... He can no longer just condemn FACTNET, because he is now officially one! But, the good kind of FACTNETTER that supports and defends himself and the other Leaders of his org. Not the bad kind that expose and condemn his ministerial manners upon the people...)
Who's right? Who's wrong? Look at the deeds, the posts, & the record in the Light of Scripture... (James 1:24-25)
"The Pharisees wrested the Scriptures in their pulpits, and brought no Bible to accuse Jesus..."
bro_derrick
Advanced Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 741
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.57.50
Posted on Tuesday, October 17, 2006 - 8:34 pm:
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Personal agendas are the substance of dishonesty, and loyalty is it's evidence.
God's Son is faithful and true, the Pastor's followers are loyal.
Christians have the cause of Christ, company men have the company's agenda.
Personal agendas of preachers destroy the common cause of Christ, and loyalty to the program corrupts the faith of the saints.
The difference between the cause of Christ and a personal agenda is the Person being followed, and the difference between the faith of Jesus and preacher loyalty is the Word being obeyed.
Is it written? Then it's Jesus faith and cause. Is it unwritten? Then it's the Pastor's loyalty and agenda!
"Company Men." Thieman: Loyalty Conference (Message preached by a man who wants one of those board members' chairs. If he keeps up his own loyalty, he will no doubt get one (for a season) and verily will have his reward...)
The organizational agenda transforms good Christians in the faith into bad ministers for loyalty's sake.
bro_derrick
Advanced Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 745
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.57.50
Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 1:59 pm:
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He's forgotten more about the Bible, than you ever knew!" Loyalists: About Davis, or any other great Leader that shouldn't be questioned in their teaching and leadership, nor needs any instruction from others in Christianity and the 'program' of God.
Those that have achieved that really high status of Bible Knowledge above all the rest. The 'man of God' knows all...
"Right. And he's twisted the Scriptures more than I ever wanted to!" Rebel: Response.
What is there to know except Jesus Christ and Him crucified?
'Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.' (1 Cor 8:1)
Every saint of God has all the knowledge he needs to live for Jesus by faith, and no one on earth knows enough about the truth of Scripture.
Many people conveniently forget what they don't want to remember, because it interferes with their personal agenda and program.
Some people who have forgotten a lot need to start remembering the basics once again. Pride causes us to forget where we all came from...
'But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.' (2 Peter 1:9)
Some people have gotten so grown and knowledgeable about what they're doing, that they can't be corrected by anyone, including the Lord and His written Word.
'And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.' (Heb 12:5,6)
'He that cannot be instructed of his brother whom you hath seen, how can he be instructed of God, whom he hath not seen?'
We can all be instructed of one another out of the Scriptures from babes (In whom God has perfected praise) to grown ups (Who ought to know better), and may all admonish one another and prophecy to one another (John 5:24)(Rom 15:14)(1 Cor 14:31)}.
There truly are no big I's and little u's in God's church. We all be but buck privates in the Man Christ Jesus' army!
victorjohanson
Intermediate Member
Username: victorjohanson
Post Number: 478
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 66.223.233.130
Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 5:25 pm:
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"The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with
illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is
always their victim". Gustave Le Bon;"The Crowd"
bro_derrick
Advanced Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 753
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.53.217
Posted on Wednesday, November 01, 2006 - 7:42 pm:
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On the surface I would agree with this, but in reality I find it different.
People are looking for the truth, but they just may not do it. Yet most people would still; rather know the truth for themselves, and then be left to make their own decsions about whether to do it or not.
The two problems I have found with most people that would minister is: 1) The minister then presumes to get the people to do it 2) They don't just give the written truth of God's Word, but most go on to slide in some or much of their own stuff and programs and try to get people to do that.
These very things disallusion many people. They either find that they have been recruited to church jobs by their attendance, or that they have been sold a bill of personal goods under the guise of preaching the Gospel.
Further, God does not destroy people's illusions with the truth of His Word, but rather He delivers to them a more heavenly calling, and then our illusions, delusions, and self-deceptions fade away as we acknowledge and apply the truth.
The illusion that Davis and other builders offer the people is a church-building enterprise to occupy their Christian time, because most believers do not wish to serve Christ in their own right as witnessess and ministers of the faith: Like many childish people, they want to be told what to do, and then do that, even if what they are told is not Scripture nor God's will for His people.
bro_derrick
Advanced Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 754
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.53.217
Posted on Wednesday, November 01, 2006 - 7:48 pm:
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'One right mite is more pleasing and acceptable to God than all the wrong mighties.'
(Mark 12:42,44)
mklo
Intermediate Member
Username: mklo
Post Number: 275
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 67.185.114.218
Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 12:19 am:
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Robert, do you not think that the quote supplied by Vic, above, can be applied to the crucifixion of Jesus? I mean, loosely and conceptually, without splitting semantical hairs.
victorjohanson
Intermediate Member
Username: victorjohanson
Post Number: 479
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 66.223.233.130
Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 2:01 am:
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Substitute "organization" for "government," and this quote has legs (from Dick Armey's recent column addressing his dispute with James Dobson):
When you boil it down, this debate centers on the role of two critical ideas: freedom and righteousness. In our private lives, living righteously is paramount. However, in our public lives — in our relationship with policymakers and our government — we should resist the belief that the power of government should be used to force righteous behavior in others. That’s the temptation facing religious conservatives.
Indeed, such efforts to impose righteousness are doomed to fail — society cannot truly become righteous simply because the government compels “righteous” behavior. God gave us free will, and true righteousness can only be found through a free exercise of personal choice. Although Dobson may not realize it, government-mandated righteousness is a pathway to tyranny.
The goal for Christians in our public lives, then, must be freedom -- freedom to practice our faith without government interference. Freedom to build churches and schools and businesses without being forced to supplicate before an ever-expanding government leviathan.
When we defend values, we win; when we impose values, we lose.
bro_derrick
Advanced Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 756
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.53.217
Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 2:40 am:
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When we defend values, we win; when we impose values, we lose. Amen.
I believe Lucifer's first error was trying to get the creatures to do the Word of the Creator that he ministered rightly. The next error was to get the creatures to do the minister's own word added to God's, or in place of: Proselytizer, Recruiter, new lord and master.
God says to preach what He says, not to get people to do it. That's Jesus' place, and He doesn't get anyone to do anything, but simply draws (knocks) and allows the souls to make their own decisions. (John 6:67)
Lucifer was the first go-getter in the ministry, which is the church-building business.
His best ministers: Cain, Nimrod, the Assyrian Pharoah, Caiaphas, Saul of Tarsus, Nicolas of Antioch, Davis, Denis... Really great men with mouths for doing God service, so long as you follow, work for, and prosper them and their organizations.
They are forever juggling the appearance of God manhood for the welfare of souls vs. the reality of their organizational politics for their own profit. It's the same disfunctional inner strifes and warrings of all organizations, because they are unscripturally made and dominated by self-called men (2 Peter 2:3), while pretending to the service of the ministry of the saints for Jesus' sake. (2 Cor 4:5)
bro_derrick
Advanced Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 757
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.53.217
Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 3:09 am:
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mic:
I believe that most all people would drink of the truth of Jesus and His cross, if bad ministers were not mixing the waters with their own personal church-building doctrines and programs. They cried for Barabas by the influence of the builders of Jesus' day.
How many people did you ever get complaints from because of the cross being preached?
Yet how many sensible people refused to join the organization due to their complaints about preachers' agendas??
Is that not why we finally left? Because it was ultimately more about men and obedience to man, rather than to God?
The very same people that I used to write off as rejectors of 'holiness' readily recieve and consent to the good sense of the Scriptures taught as they are written. They may not go on to do it, but they readily admit to the right sense of it and are not resentful for being told.
So also with the average American citizen. They are still decent value voters, and if a politician will tell them the truth and the need, then those same Americans will vote for it and support it.
False religion is the opiate of the masses, but the truth is the drink the masses are thirsting for! (John 4:35)
How do I know? Because I am one of the masses, and I got saved by the truth, and stay saved by it from the Bible and Jesus' faith. I was only made confused and almost derailed by the most-loved Leaders in builders' clothes. When people are left free to pray and read for ourselves, most will make the right decision.
God curse the builders for the damage they do to the sheep in Lucifer's service. (Judges 5:23)(Matthew 23:37-39)
The chicks don't go under Jesus' wings, neither the sheep after the Shepherd's voice, because of the intrusive and disruptive influence of go-getting teachers, rulers, shepherds, and builders, who want to mean more to the people than they ought: to be as christs themselves. (Matthew 24:23,24)
bro_derrick
Advanced Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 866
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.58.74
Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 4:51 pm:
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"BLAH"! ssv: Factnet
I like it. It fits so well.
bro_derrick
Advanced Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 903
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.58.74
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 3:15 pm:
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"You can be a fool for men, or a fool for Jesus. I choose Jesus everytime!" Anonymous
'I gave it all for a fool before, and was a fool. I might as well lay it all down now for Jesus.' ExNTCCr (Now Jesus Christian returning to the Author and Finisher of our faith)
'We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye [are] wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised.' (1 Cor 4:10)
'Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.' (John 10:17-18)
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 990
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 4:49 pm:
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Quotes from the emperor in Gladiator:
Commodus: I think I understand my own people.
Gracchus: Then perhaps Caesar will be so good as to teach us, out of his own extensive experience?
Commodus: I call it love, Gracchus. The people are my children, I am their father. I shall hold them to my bosom and embrace them tightly...
Gracchus: Have you ever embraced someone dying of plague, sire?
Commodus: No, but if you interrupt me again, I assure you that you will.
Commodus: You wrote to me once, listing the four chief virtues. Wisdom, Justice, Fortitude and Temperance. As I read the list, I knew I had none of them. But I have other virtues, father. Ambition, that can be a virtue when it drives us to excel. Resourcefulness. Courage. Perhaps not on the battlefield, but there are many forms of courage. Devotion, to my family, to you. But none of my virtues were on your list. Even then, it was as if you didn't want me for your son.
Commodus: [to Falco] Lucius will stay with me now. And if his mother so much as looks at me in a manner that displeases me, he will die. If she decides to be noble and takes her own life, he will die.
[to Lucilla]
Commodus: And as for you, you will love me as I loved you. You will provide me with an heir of pure blood, so that Commodus and his progeny will rule for a thousand years. Am I not merciful?
[Lucilla turns her head]
Commodus: AM I NOT MERCIFUL?
Commodus: It vexes me. I'm terribly vexed.
victorjohanson
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Username: victorjohanson
Post Number: 684
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 66.223.233.130
Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 5:35 pm:
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”Frantic orthodoxy is never rooted in faith but in doubt. It is when we are not sure that we are doubly sure. Fundamentalism is, therefore, inevitable in an age which has destroyed so many certainties by which faith once expressed itself and upon which it relied.”
Reinhold Niebuhr
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 991
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 5:38 pm:
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1. "The Lord told me that I sinned in that I loved 'the people' too much"
Yeah, (knee slap) that's a good one!
2. Self justification and conscience soother of any personal builder and loyal go-getter
3. "If it wasn't for my ministry where would you be" "none of you were saved before you came under this ministry" "If I have to answer the call, why don't you?" "there's the door don't let it hit you where the good Lord split you" "If you aren't soul winning you aren't saved" (why don't you go?)"The church is a business" "You all need all them sevices because you need all them offerings"
Anyone hear about the cadillac offering?
AM I NOT MERCIFUL?
4. "God, how am I supposed to make preachers of these people?" I am terribly vexed!
leftin1992
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Username: leftin1992
Post Number: 3
Registered: 1-2007
Posted From: 66.69.110.187
Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 11:00 pm:
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...53475448&hl=en
leftin1992
New member
Username: leftin1992
Post Number: 4
Registered: 1-2007
Posted From: 66.69.110.187
Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 11:10 pm:
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...53475448&hl=en
bro_derrick
Advanced Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 915
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.58.74
Posted on Monday, January 29, 2007 - 9:23 pm:
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"The hardest thing you'll ever do as a Christian is make the rapture of the church!" Davis: Graham (More teaching on how hard it is to be a Christian, which is the only simple requirement for being in the Rapture!)
And Davis is just the man Lucifer needs to make it so hard that a believer will miss the rapture, because he misses the service of Jesus Christ by pleasing the Davis Christ.
"And in my dream of the rapture, I saw Pastor leading the way, then the General Board, and then the whole Organization." Olson: Graham (This is so insanely silly to anyone who reads the Bible as it is written, without the vail of Davis covering their heads and blinding their eyes.)
The body of Christ is not Davis’ personal Organization, and there is no Pyramid Power in Jesus’ church!
'Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.' (1 Thess 4:17)
Together with them speaks of a level plain like the great sheet let down of the Lord in Acts 10, but no longer knit at the four corners.
Also, if Davis were 'leading the way' up, then he would ever be 'in the way' between Jesus and us. And is that not the case now!
Man, the grand ambition of the man. He don't want to just be in the way between the Lord and us now, but he wants to be in that way forever! Talk about a hog! They who return to NTCC's cult-hood indeed are as Davis' sows returning to their wallowing for him in their laboring mire!
And Olson likes that idea so much, because he really loves Davis so much like Christ Himself! Olson loves Davis so much, that he prays for him first in the morning before praying for anyone else in the world, including his own wife! Not only that, be he then goes on to pray first for the Davis' lineage & Organizational Family heritage: The Davis', The Kekels (Because she's the daughter, not because he's the in-law), then Grant, the son of Scar (in-law).
"One day all this will be mine! That's right li'l buddy, just stick with me!"Grant & Kekel: Graham (Speaking of the Graham real estate of Church Buildings and homes paid for and rented out to Davis' loyal lovers (of whom I was really one...)
Not only that li'l buddy, but also all them other buildings and homes Davis got out there in the saints' business. And since the church is a Family Business, they can call it: Kekel & Son's Realty.
So, the only sin Davis ever committed was loving people too much? No, but rather having others loyally love himself too much!
"Because they committed the sin of loving Davis too much, all the other sins have followed.
'Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after.' (1 tim 5:24)
That would make Davis' organization a kind of Pandora's box! First he boxes you in to his personal church, then he boxes you out of the body of Christ, and if any seek to be unboxed, then he & his Boxers will box with you to blacken your eye and to defile your name.
The Boxer Rebellion: The fault-finding, name-calling, character assassinating war against them that rebuke Davis' boxy program with the truth of the Scriptures!
'Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.' (Rev 2:16)
still_small_voice
Senior Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 1299
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
Posted on Friday, March 09, 2007 - 3:38 pm:
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I just love this quote:
"You who are so wise must know that different nations have different conception of things. You will not therefore take it amiss if our ideas of the white man's kind of education happens not to be the same as yours. We have had some experience of it.
Several of our young people were brought up in your colleges. They were instructed in all your sciences; but, when they came back to us, they were all bad runners, ignorant of every means of living in the woods, unable to bear either cold or hunger. They didn't know how to build a cabin, take a deer, or kill an enemy. They spoke our language imperfectly.
They were therefore unfit to be hunters, warriors, or counsellors; they were good for nothing.
We are, however, not the less obliged for your kind offer, though we decline accepting it. To show our gratefulness, it the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we will take great care with their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them.
Canassatego - Treaty of Lancaster"
still_small_voice
Senior Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 1516
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 6:38 pm:
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It is human nature to hate the man whom you have hurt. -Publius Cornelius Tacitus, historian (c.55-c.120)
victorjohanson
Advanced Member
Username: victorjohanson
Post Number: 819
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 66.230.87.30
Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 8:16 pm:
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"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt" -- Bertrand Russell ...
still_small_voice
Senior Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 1656
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 6:16 pm:
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"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
-- Thomas Jefferson
still_small_voice
Senior Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 1657
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 6:22 pm:
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"Every man is guilty of all the good he didn't do."
Voltaire
sacredcow_tipper
Member
Username: sacredcow_tipper
Post Number: 55
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 205.188.116.74
Posted on Friday, April 20, 2007 - 7:46 pm:
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The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived, and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. ~ John F. Kennedy
still_small_voice
Senior Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 1716
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
Posted on Saturday, April 21, 2007 - 10:35 pm:
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Life is more than the examination of it, and one true answer is more than the sum of all questions, yet without the search or the examination, life would be lessened somehow, and existence cheated.
If in the exercise of faith we find the denial of reason, conscience, or the innate sense of right and wrong, we have created a state of perception incapable of truly perceiving.
Whatever authority there is to interpret this existence or define what is true, can never be separated from, nor rule over, the existence itself or the observer. Likewise, whatever heart might be convinced of what is true, must yet still be convinced, and all such yielding to instruction is dependent upon the decision, first, to be informed and secondly the right to decide for oneself what is true.
If one is to ever develop, grow, strive for true potential, or even dare to dream... one must first decide that it is a noble endeavor to do so, and so ignorance and deception often triumph, however briefly, over the minds of men. Yet one can never remain content in ignorance, nor dwell at peace in the lodging place of myth. As light and darkness cannot be at one, neither can the mind of man be molded into what it was never meant to be.... subjected to the limitations set by others. Enslaved to fear, fallacy, or superstition.
The desire for freedom is inherent in every person. In this truth we know, all will strive in time to be free, whether pushed too far or tugged too long however carefully. They will never willingly surrender it, once they have even slightly tasted of it.
The bane of the tyrant or the dictator is not simply courage or one not afraid to think. It is the one who thinks courageously, feels deeply and is not afraid to speak.
from an anonymous independent thinker
Adieu
still_small_voice
New member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 14
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 5:41 pm:
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Those who invalidate reason ought seriously to consider whether they argue against reason with or without reason; if with reason, then they establish the principles that they are laboring to dethrone: but if they argue without reason (which, in order to be consistent with themselves they must do), they are out of reach of rational conviction, nor do they deserve a rational argument.
-Ethan Allen
still_small_voice
New member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 17
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 11:02 pm:
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Galileo Galilei
“I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.”
bro_derrick
New member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 14
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 70.193.163.228
Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 8:51 am:
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"Not by feelings, but by faith!"
This is another of the 'old' standard-bearer statements that have been unquestioningly recieved as right dogma.
'Feelings' themselves were always downgraded and denigraded to the point of abuse. Sort of like abusing one's feelings, so they can learn to get over it.
"If your toes get stepped on when Jesus is walking through, then get them out of the aisle!"
1) Is Jesus really the one coming through? Most of Davis' doctrine is without Biblic source or is Bible wrested from it's original intent, and so it is Davis coming through, stepping on Christian toes...
2) Does Jesus even step on toes? We read of Him crushing Satan's head, but bogus builders spend more time destroying the faith of others and so stomping the sheep, rather than the devil. (Ezek 34:21)
3) The Bible does not run down and insult 'feelings' themselves, but rather accounts for the feeling of our infirmities as legitimate traits of humanity, which the Holy Spirit is sent to help us with, not to destroy us over! (Rom 8:26)
So the belittling attack on feelings in the name of strengthening faith is rather the dehumanizing element of cultism, that helps to make loyal followers and recruiters of men, rather than faithful and true followers and servants of Jesus Christ.
So with the feelings, then also the humanity or humanness of mankind is cast out and destroyed. This did the Man Christ Jesus never do, nor does God.
The mechanicalizing effect of the church-building industry makes the believers humanless, so that not only their own feelings, but also that of others are to be thoroughly disregarded and set aside in favor of the really highest of the high calling of church recruitment as practised in the soulwinning or soul-hunting program of men!
Rather than 'Not by feeling, but by faith', Biblicly we ought say,
Our feelings helped by faith.
Davis has so wilfully given himself to making the ministry of Christ into a profit-seeking business, that the devil has effectively mechanicalized his mind and heart from all feeling, humanity, and respect for others.
'Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.' (Eph 4:19)
The devil's craftiness is to bewitch people first from their own feelings and then from their own faith. Satan's metallurgy is to sanitize our hearts and minds from all feeling of humanity in the name of 'holiness' sanctification. This is the soul-getting work of another type of not-so-kind Christ, but not so Jesus:
'For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities...' (Heb 4:15)
bro_derrick
New member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 15
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 70.193.163.228
Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 9:14 am:
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"We make time for what matters most to us!"
This is another old and oft-repeated statement that is true in itself, but has been effectively used to compel loyalty and labor to the church-builder's program.
The true statement is added to the false teachings of builders who proceed to tell believers what they ought be doing as Christians, and so ought to 'matter' to them most. Hence, more time is compelled out of the believer for the builder's program than true Bible believers ought ever give.
Church attendance around a preacher's pulpit is an over-hyped notion of assembling ourselves together, and church recruitment in a preacher's program is a perverted version of bearing witness to Jesus' salvation.
So, the 'time' of believers is unjustly compelled, or conscripted into the church-builder's personal program by the false vision of making his ministry 'matter' most to his followers.
The sheep who seek the Person of Jesus Christ are transformed into the cattle who are corralled around the person of another christ.
What matters most to the Bible-believing Christian is spending time at Jesus' feet, and what matters most to the builder-believing proselyte is spending time under Davis' footstool...
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 646
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 206.138.130.3
Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 2:37 pm:
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"Any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be true."
Thomas Paine
I like that one.
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 647
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 206.138.130.3
Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 2:38 pm:
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"I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. 'Tis the business of little minds to shrink, but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death."
Thomas Paine
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 759
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 7:57 pm:
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Dependence begets subservience and venality, suffocates the germ of virtue, and prepares fit tools for the designs of ambition.
-Thomas Jefferson
mklo
Member
Username: mklo
Post Number: 82
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 67.185.114.218
Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 1:44 am:
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"Children who have felt cruelty know very well how to inflict it."
- anonymous
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 170
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 70.192.107.168
Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 3:35 am:
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"Any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be true."
If you want to know what Jesus' rule is on a matter, then read the Scriptures to a roomfull of children, and they will acurately tell what 'Jesus says...'
'Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.' (Matthew 18:23)
Little children cannot be indoctrinated, because they are too simple to believe the indefensible. Therefore, remain as a little child when coming to Jesus and reading His Word, and you will become more doctrinated by Christ and less indoctrinated by man.
"There are two kinds of fools in the world. The educated and the uneducated. And the biggest fools are the educated kind!" Davis: Psycho of Self-Development Class (Too true: And case in point!)
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 171
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 70.192.107.168
Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 3:40 am:
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"Children who have felt cruelty know very well how to inflict it."
So what's Davis' excuse?
NTCC is a cruel joke...
And Davis is its' cruelest joke of all, because he was there first.
still_small_voice
Advanced Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 787
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 12:00 am:
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"Most people do not really want freedom, because freedom involves responsibility, and most people are frightened of responsibility.”
Sigmund Freud
"else socialism would always fail before it started, and never be trumpeted as the great gift to the masses"
"And controlling churches would find no fodder for their indoctrination gristmills"
Me
bro_derrick
Senior Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 1670
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 70.218.94.233
Posted on Thursday, October 18, 2007 - 9:12 pm:
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"The ministry of God is full of glory but is not always glorious..." Olson: 'Practical' Theology
Where does God say or show that in His Word?
You see how devils indoctrinate people to think ILL of God, His Word, and His ministry in order to make their followers swallow their sorry business pills??
NOWHERE in Scripture is God's ministry ever spoken of as inglorious, but rather more and more glorious as that Day aproaches.
But it is the perversion, corruption, and works of man passed off as God's ministry that is not only NOT glorious but is also NEVER any good.
"Easy paths lead to rotten roads!" Kinson's Favorite at Tillicum while doing his best/worst to get the record highs in numbers.
Then Jesus' easy way is rotten to the core, and walking in His steps leads to loser works...
Once again, the making of God and His will & work to be HARD, so that His people will swallow down whole the hard work placed upon them by merchandizing men.
There is absolutely NOTHING hard about Jesus' salvation, life, and reasonable service in His righteousness, peace, and joy of the Holy Ghost. Only the way of transgressors is hard.
We indeed endure hardness in this life as any good soldier, but Jesus' way and service only makes it easier to endure and is a greater weight of glory than those without hope in Christ who likewise must endure the hardships of this life, or quit!
These two right-seeming sayings are simply the devil's indoctrination of sheep to do the made-up work and labors of men's commandments and profit-seeking programs. With their lips they talk much about doing God real service, but with their hearts they're all about profiting thereby:
'And there was given unto him a MOUTH speaking great things and blasphemies...' (Rev 13:5)
mklo
Advanced Member
Username: mklo
Post Number: 613
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 67.185.114.218
Posted on Thursday, October 18, 2007 - 11:01 pm:
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"Making it to heaven will be the hardest thing you ever do."
- Roger Davis
bro_derrick
Senior Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 1672
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 70.218.234.181
Posted on Friday, October 19, 2007 - 9:48 am:
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"Making the rapture of the church will be the hardest thing you will do!" Davis
"Serving God isn't so easy. There's work involved!" A loyal minister: Rejecting the idea that God's way isn't so hard.
Ironically, Davis and his licensed preachers are correct:
Cult Leaders do make it HARD to serve God and go to heaven! though not impossible...
'For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.' (Matthew 23:4)
Factnet: Making it easier to break free from the hard. And hardening the hearts of them that repent not. (Exodus 4:21,7:3,14:4,17)
bro_derrick
Senior Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 1754
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 70.218.66.221
Posted on Saturday, November 03, 2007 - 9:25 am:
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"They had their chance!" Davis
His favorite refrain in answer to the massive amount of doors knocked on in the blitz compared to the few responses to come to Graham (much less to stay). (Few out of the many shall find eternal life, but very few out of the few shall find it through Davis' ministry: NTCC, the church of the very few))
1) A pitiful justification for a thoroughly carnalized program (the mechanical infantry of Davis' brigade).
2) Peoples' ONLY chance to glory is through Davis' Organization: (The door to heaven is made of bronze. The Bronze Age of mythology referred to the degraded period of man!)
All (God's) roads lead to Graham!
(The apologists will say Davis only meant that they had their chance to come to NTCC, which is among other good churches 'out there', but we of course want them to come join us, as any other church would desire. Right. Tell that to Davis...)
mklo
Advanced Member
Username: mklo
Post Number: 630
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 67.185.114.218
Posted on Saturday, November 03, 2007 - 12:02 pm:
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quote:
"They had their chance!" Davis
His favorite refrain in answer to the massive amount of doors knocked on in the blitz compared to the few responses to come to Graham (much less to stay).
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Properly considered, that is a mind-stopping and revealing quote.
Member
"Beware the man who claims to have all of the answers. Especially to the most difficult questions.
For, half-hearted fake humble denials aside...there is no more certain indication that he does not, than in the very fact he claims that he does."
JPT
"Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth"--Jesus
“Let the human mind loose. It must be loose. It will be loose. Superstition and dogmatism cannot confine it.”
John Adams
Senior Member
Rest of the old thread
bro_derrick (bro_derrick)
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 167
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 6:27 pm:
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From time to time over the past couple of years, things come to mind, and I right them down. I have generated a list of Quotes from people. If anyone has corrections by better memories, or possible variations of the same quote, I would apreciate your input. Or, if there are any other quotes that spring to mind, please right them down. Finally, if there are any comments on the quotes, would you write them down. The one speaking them is not as important as the source of their inspiration! The purpose is to determine the good and the bad, by Scriptural proving.
I believe that these 'sayings' validly represent a person's true thinking: "Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh." They are certainly representative of a vision of life as Christians that people have, especially preachers and teachers. My purpose is to demonstrate by comparison to Scripture, whether the vision, teaching, etc... of such quotations are actually Godly, or rather that of man. And so are an anti-Christian (i.e. unbiblic) intrusion into the Body of Christ thru wrong, or false, 'ministerial' efforts.
1) "If you're not soulwinning, you're not saved"
2) "Life is a Business"
3) "The church is a Business"
4) "The ministry is 90% promotion, and 10% preaching)
6) "If the church is going to move, you have to push it"
7) "Promotion, promotion, promotion. You must continually promote the program"
8) "Now, push it (the church) even harder"
9) "Yes, sometimes you do have to push the church"
10) "No one on earth cares for souls more than I"
11) "There is no politicking from this pulpit"
12) "I do not preach personal messages"
13) "If a person will pray and read his Bible, he will make it to heaven"
14) "You must marry your business to be a success at it. As ministers, we are to be married to the ministry"
15) "Your ministry comes first in your life"
16) "My ministry..."
17) "I would rather be a pappy in the Catholic church, than independent"
18) "God has an organization, because we need overseers who will be able to check us out"
greg_s (greg_s)
Member
Username: greg_s
Post Number: 98
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 203.236.95.189
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 6:41 pm:
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TITLE: “Quotes to Live by” LAST UPDATE: August 14, 2005
• “For the Christian it’s still a matter of rules and money.”
• “You have to keep a sweet spirit.”
• “If you love me keep my commandments.”
• “All Christians pay tithe and give offerings.”
• “Observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you.”
• “Will the church (whatever church you go to) and the ministry be supported?”
• “I am thankful for rules.”
• “Be conservative in politics, conservative in theology.”
• “Content trumps strategy every time.”
• “Realize that as a Christian you operate from a position of strength.”
• “Right words and actions, though defendable, need no defense.”
• “Follow the rules of your pastor.”
• “Lack of rush to judgment has saved me many apologies to God and man.”
• “Loyalty is not a character flaw.”
• “According to the Bible, Tithe is for New Testament believers.”
• “Let’s play again!”
• “Thousands of proof texts are not needed to know what God requires.”
• “Be leery of the ‘long on explanation, short on scripture’ teaching.”
• “There is danger in listening to what others say the Bible says if one doesn’t keep in mind what the Bible says.”
• “Don’t be ignorant just to prove a point.”
• “Great minds think alike.”
• “Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.”
• “Never make a decision in the battle.”
• “Meine Ehre heißt Treue (My honor is loyalty)”
• “Cleverness without content is just silliness.”
• “Just hear me out, it will be a blessing to you.”
TITLE: “Quotes to Die bye” To be Determined (TBD)
•
leftin1991 (leftin1991)
Intermediate Member
Username: leftin1991
Post Number: 125
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 63.25.112.19
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 8:24 pm:
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- The spiritual adolescent says, "It's only the - prayer meeting."
- If the devil wants me, he'll have to pry me out of a dead God's hand.
- Some people's faith doesn't have to go into the fire; you just set it on the stove & it evaporates!
- Christ's death was sufficient for all, but efficient for few.
- Don't you wish everyone was a Christian - Just like you? :-)
- You can't be worthy, so you must be faithful.
- Is your life a message, or just a mess?
- Remember a verse when it hurts the worst.
- People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care.
- Jesus never had to say "I love you" because his life said it already.
- If you let a hypocrite keep you away from God, that means that hypocrite is closer to God than you are!
- The Spirit-controlled tongue contains no acid.
- Prejudice is not a skin problem but a SIN problem.
- What will faultfinders do in Heaven? (IF they make it!)
- Those who live as if Christ never died will one day die as if Christ never lived.
- Some people say "Praise the Lord" with their lips, but "Go to Hell" with their life.
bro_derrick (bro_derrick)
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 168
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 8:39 pm:
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"Just hear me out, it will be a blessing to you"
-Why wouldn't I want to hear you out? Long winded? No point? No Bible?
"My honor is loyalty"
-Nazi SS
“There is danger in listening to what others say the Bible says if one doesn’t keep in mind what the Bible says"
-Perfect!
"Loyalty is not a character flaw."
-Nor is it your honor...
“Follow the rules of your pastor.”
-Oh great: one for the archives! If they are rules of service in the assembly within biblic rule from 1 Cor 14, sure, or leave. Otherwise, outside of assembly you can follow the rules of your pastor, instead of Jesus...
“I am thankful for rules.”
-A ruling pastor's darling child...
“All Christians pay tithe and give offerings.” -Is that a quote in a book? All proselytized Christians pay tithe by rule of pastor...
Greg S: good stuff, thanks!
bro_derrick (bro_derrick)
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 169
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 8:49 pm:
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left1991:
Most all of them the good holiness sayings, and hadn't heard them for a while! Very good you remembered!
The spiritual adolescent says, "It's only the - prayer meeting."
-Half good, half bad: The spiritual dominator says, If your a Christian you will be at the prayer meeting!
"If the devil wants me, he'll have to pry me out of a dead God's hand."
-and: God will cast us to the devil, if we're dead in His hand!
leftin1991 (leftin1991)
Intermediate Member
Username: leftin1991
Post Number: 126
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 63.25.22.176
Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 12:01 am:
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These are not from NTCC, but they are good anyway:
- Salvation is not by our attainment but his atonement.
- Christ was witnessing while Peter was denying, but Christ had been praying while Peter was sleeping!
- We want God to say "well pleased" down here, & "well done" over there.
- Obedience is the highest form of worship.
- He who angers you conquers you.
- You can lead fools to knowledge, but you cannot make them think!
- Today some of Israel's greatest enemies are the "Media-ites."
- Islam says, "We're a religion of peace, and we'll kill you to prove it!"
- Try Jesus! If you don't like him, the devil will always take you back.
biblegirl1999 (biblegirl1999)
Intermediate Member
Username: biblegirl1999
Post Number: 107
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 84.167.114.72
Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 4:29 am:
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going all the way too your first post Bro. Derrick...I heard number 1 so often (if your not soulwinning your not saved)that I actually believed it and would run down to the altar all the time and ask God to forgive me. I haven't been soulwinning with NTCC in 2.5 years, but God has led me down other roads and methods to witness to people. I do penpalling and it's been effective and lately I have been thinking of ways to allow others to see what the Lord has done in my life...not only thru MySpace, but other places as well.
mark_g (mark_g)
Junior Member
Username: mark_g
Post Number: 37
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 70.176.81.128
Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 10:16 am:
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Quotations:
1. The Refiner is never far away from the mouth of the furnace when his peice of Gold is in the fire.
2. Some of you out in the congregation have enough dust written across your Bibles to write "Damnation" on them.
3. There is nothing more terrifying to the sinner living in sin than the Holiness of God.
4. I'm so happy that Christ chose me before he was born, Because he most certainly would not have chosen me afterwards.
All of these quotes are from Charles Spurgeon, with the exception of # 4, which was from Matthew Henry.
Some of my own.......
1. Adversity has a way of bringing out the very best in some people, and the very worst in others.
2. Lord, If I go into a situation that I can't make better, Then please let me be made better by the situation.
3. The Sweetness of Gods Grace will be remembered long after the bitterness of what has been done has come and gone.
4. Whatever you have done in you life is no match for what HE has done in your life.
I've been wanting to share these for some time. Some of you please let me know what you think. I can always accept conctructive critisism. Mark
mark_g (mark_g)
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Username: mark_g
Post Number: 38
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 70.176.81.128
Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 11:04 am:
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Corrections.......
4.I'm so happy Christ chose me before I was born, Because he most certainly would not have chosen me afterwards.
All quotations were from Charles Spurgeon, with the exception of #3, which is from Matthew Henry. Mark
From now on I'll try and do a better job of proof reading.
ambovee78 (ambovee78)
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Username: ambovee78
Post Number: 64
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 24.13.180.57
Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 11:27 am:
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this is and has been my own personal quote since I was a teen.
God didn't put me on this earth to please man he put me on this earth to please Him. If you don't like it there's the door don't let it hit you in the butt on the way out!
ambovee78 (ambovee78)
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Username: ambovee78
Post Number: 65
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 24.13.180.57
Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 11:33 am:
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You know who the saved ones are. They come to every service and don't miss a day of soul winning
(not sure if this is the exact wording but that is what was said so many times I started zoning out when it was said)
ambovee78 (ambovee78)
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Username: ambovee78
Post Number: 71
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 24.13.180.57
Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 2:36 pm:
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this are quotes off a few t-shirts I have.
People like you are the reason people like me need medication!
I'm not wierd I'm gifted
give me chocolate and I'll be nicer
Don't give me your attitude. I have one of my own.
bro_derrick (bro_derrick)
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 173
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 5:53 pm:
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Praise God for Sis Biblegirl!!! Yehaaaaaa! You got it girl! You're a witness for Jesus now, not a sincere Christian pawn for preachers!!!! (God's anger is for the successfully leading profiteers of such unbiblic trash!)
I actually met a young Navaho guy on the way to the Grand Canyon, and he was hitchiking, and was just saved, and asked questions about how to reach out to his fellow Navahos. His burden was sincere, and The Spirit of God bore great witness to the tenderness of his heart and simplicity of his faith. And praise be to God, I was free-enough from the old church attendance drive fallacy of 'reaching out', that I was able to steer him away from focusing on that, but just tell them about his Jesus' forgiveness of sins, and He would personally lead him all the way thru. And pray and read our bibles to make more sure of our calling and election. But just drive on brother Jim, and you too, Sis Biblegirl! (Luke 10:21)!!
bro_derrick (bro_derrick)
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Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 174
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 6:06 pm:
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"2. Lord, If I go into a situation that I can't make better, Then please let me be made better by the situation."
"4. Whatever you have done in you life is no match for what HE has done in your life."
-2 for the archives! (maybe: no match for what He cand do in your life?)
"God didn't put me on this earth to please man he put me on this earth to please Him. If you don't like it there's the door don't let it hit you in the butt on the way out!"
-Ha1 I love it! What got you thru it all, and still does, no doubt! and it is Bible! (Rev 4:11) (Which is the proving/disproving stone for all such sayings of man!)
"You know who the saved ones are. They come to every service and don't miss a day of soul winning"
-omigosh! Ma'am you have remembered the particularly bad type of stuff, that I can only describe as: disgusting!
"I'm not wierd I'm gifted"
2 New Ones:
"A witness for Jesus is not a church builder, successful or otherwise, and vica versa!"
"You may indeed be weird, which is not a sin, but you certainly have no self-esteem problem, which is a blessing!"
bro_derrick (bro_derrick)
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 180
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Saturday, March 11, 2006 - 1:02 am:
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"He that winneth souls to Jesus is wise unto salvation for God, but he that getteth souls into his church is a wise-guy unto success for the preaching director"
"When I am weak, He is strong. When I can (without doubt) do nothing. He can (certainly) do something"
"I never met a man I didn't like..."
"Only one way up, and only one way down. There are no in betweens. Gravity won't have it."
"There is one mountain of God, and many paths in particular"
"Gravity is either overcome to escape the world, or defeated by and buried beneath the earth."
"Good intentions unachieved are far better than bad intentions succeeeded in"
"Let's do something, even if it's wrong!"
"The plumbing may all be the same, but the pipes are shaped differently!"
"You're not in love with God, desring souls to enter into the kingdom of God, but you're in lust for God's souls to get into your church program!"
"To say: 'You're not in love, but in lust' is to say you're a sinner."
"If you don't know what real love is, until after you've been married for a year, is that because you finally got saved after a year and met the real love of God?"
"Life is not a business, but love."
"The Father's business is not the people business, but the loving people business!"
"The people businessmen make a business of getting into the peoples' business!"
"God is not a force. There is no force in God"
"If God has a force, it is unforced"
"Prayer force is for the forcing of others by the compelling prayers of man, but the power of prayer is for the helping of others by the supplication and prayers of the saints."
"My ministry is not God's ministry"
"The road to success is strewn with the bones of contacts used up by 'my ministries'"
"When 'my ministry' begins, God's ministry ends"
"When preachers begin to direct the efforts of his members, God ceases to inspire the labors of the saints."
"My ministry...my church...my soulwinners.... My...My...My..."
"Not I, but Christ that liveth in me... Not my, but God's..."
shirthler (shirthler)
New member
Username: shirthler
Post Number: 1
Registered: 2-2006
Posted From: 69.3.79.179
Posted on Saturday, March 11, 2006 - 7:45 am:
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One I've heard many times:
You need a check up from the neck up...
leftin1991
Intermediate Member
Username: leftin1991
Post Number: 137
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 63.25.125.184
Posted on Saturday, March 11, 2006 - 10:26 pm:
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Now some goofy quotes from NTCC (1984-87):
"You can tell how good a service is by how many bobby pins you find on the floor."
"You need more than faith in God; you need what we've got!"
"Cold shivers in church are usually the Holy Ghost."
"Why would we walk the streets of gold if we're not willing to walk the streets of concrete?"
"Cutting hair is the same as if she prostituted her body. The only difference is that prostitution doesn't show."
"The dearest thing the devil would love is to get you kicked out of the organization." (LOL!)
"If a woman wants to work, she's not bored - she's rebellious."
"Have service even if there's no one there but you & your wife."
"I'm holy, & if God wants me to roll, I'll roll."
"'You're a chauvinist.' 'I'm worse than that - I'm a Bibleist!'"
"Even if you missed a service, you still should give an offering."
Half of these are from RWD. All of these were spoken by higher-ups who are still in NTCC. (To his credit, none of them came from Jim Ashmore.)
mklo
Intermediate Member
Username: mklo
Post Number: 115
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 67.185.118.158
Posted on Saturday, March 11, 2006 - 10:54 pm:
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"I can't remember the last time I sinned."
- Roger Wilson Davis, Founder, NTCC
measinner
Intermediate Member
Username: measinner
Post Number: 466
Registered: 2-2006
Posted From: 4.242.105.44
Posted on Saturday, March 11, 2006 - 11:09 pm:
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"Cutting hair is the same as if she prostituted her body. The only difference is that prostitution doesn't show."
What nutcase said that?
firedup
New member
Username: firedup
Post Number: 19
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 62.253.128.15
Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 4:48 am:
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"Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren"
leftin1991
Intermediate Member
Username: leftin1991
Post Number: 145
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 63.25.0.187
Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 9:39 am:
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measinner, that quote was by none other than R.W. Davis, circa 1986.
firedup, how is it a rebuke to repeat a preacher's words outside of the walls of a church? Plus, I did not even volunteer the names of just who said what. I am now I.D.'ing one quote, but only because I was asked. See, I took notes in church. Never would I go without pen and paper. I know they made a rule against it later, but they were too late. I even brought my Bible, imagine that! And that was even after almost everybody else stopped bringing them because they were discouraged from doing so after ministers stopped giving the location of sermon texts and told everyone just to read their Bibles at home!
ambovee78
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Username: ambovee78
Post Number: 75
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 24.13.180.57
Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 10:49 am:
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I am so glad the pastor of the church I am at now records his sermons. That way if I get called away to the nursery I can just ask for a copy and hear what he preached and I didn't miss a thing. It is such a blessing.
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 191
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 10:33 am:
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left1991:
"You need more than faith in God; you need what we've got!"
-Where from? Very good: if you have faith, you have all you need: only pray and exercise what you have (Matthew 17:20)(Jude 20,21)
"Why would we walk the streets of gold if we're not willing to walk the streets of concrete?"
-Good 2-sided sword:
"If the unwillingness is to God's inspiration, then the rejection is of God's calling, but if the unwillingness is to man's insistence, then the rejection is of man's calling!" (Gal 1:1)
"When man begins to direct, God ceases to inspire"
-All soulwinning programs promoted by man, for man, under man's managerial rule is without biblic justification, and therefore an intrusion of man's business-making of personal workers ('My soulwinners') into God's business of making saints! (You compel others in, not compel others to compel others in!)
"If a woman wants to work, she's not bored - she's rebellious."
"You know why God has wives stay at home? So, they can go soulwinning" (!!)
-So, what is the difference between a woman working on a job, and working on the preacher's soulwinning field? She's not submitting to 'just' another man on the woulwinning field, but to the 'pastor' himself, who is more than 'just' a man! (Ha! My God, I still continue to 'just' crack me up! I am all cracked up! Maybe not all as I ought to be, but I am anyway! Ha!)
"The dearest thing the devil would love is to get you kicked out of the organization." (LOL!)
"Even if you missed a service, you still should give an offering."
(MY God!)
Left is right...on! Thank you!
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 192
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 11:44 am:
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"I can't remember the last time I sinned."
"I asked God, where have I sinned, concerning His church? He told me my sin was that I loved too much" (!)
-Loved what? Can you really love with God's love, too much? Is there any Bible for that? I suppose God has been overboard in mercy and patience from time to time, but did He ever rebuke Himself for it, as a sin?? No, you're not in love with the church, but in lust for souls! (To turn another infamous quote: 'You're not in love, you're in lust!' Who says? You? How is my love rebuked as lust? Am I overboard in it to the detriment of something more important in God's kingdom? Is it getting in the way of your calling upon my life to advance your program? Is it getting in the way of the real 'business' at hand?)
This is another example of how the erroneous teaching of being in the 'people business', is really just getting into the 'peoples' business': self-appointed judges & self-called busybodies. Their very bodies are laid down for the 'business', and they make sure others are called and elected to the same! But, "If it ain't Biblicly done, then it is vainly done." (1 Cor 13:3)
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 193
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 12:20 pm:
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firedup:
1) The proper sense of this thread is to give quotes, or make them, and then determine their biblic validitiy, if any. And so, demonstrate biblicly whether such 'sayings of man' are edifying or destructive to the hearers thereof. (2 Cor 13:10)
So, a more proper effort, to maintain threadal integrity (Ha!), may have been...oh, let's see now...something maybe like this:
"Those who would not speak face to face to help, have no right to denounce from afar to hurt."
or more accurately:
"If you did not try to help your dad, when you thought him wrong, then you are not right to hurt your dad, after you have already said 'so long'." (1 Tim 5:1)
Now, that is something I could be impressed with (being impressed only with God and His Word rightly applied, not with men's persons nor pretences of service). The only problem is:
"There are those who tried to help their dad, to understand where the children suffer wrong, but were slapped in the face for it, so they had to say, 'so long'." (1 Sam 18:10,11)
so, now we must say:
"They that allow for the beatings of bad dads, allow also for the destruction of sad lads" (!)
(Rom 1:32)
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 194
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 1:01 pm:
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2) Now, we still applaud your 'effort' to bring Bible to the table (which makes you conspicuously different from other loyalists), however, the original challenge was to bring Scripture to prove your beliefs and doings, and so proving your own rebukes, of us rebukers.
You have consistently failed to do so. So, I will endeavor to intreat your fatherliness with biblic instruction on proper use of Scripture to rebuke, reprove, etc...(2 Tim 3:16)
"Scriptural rebuke requires plain Scripture quoted against open transgression (Nehenmiah 13:23-28)(John 2:13-16), or plain Scripture quoted with reasonable explanation(!)" (John 16:22-25)(Gal 2:11-16)
So, we may say:
"Plain Scripture quoted without open transgression, nor reasonable explanation, is Scripture quoted 'out of the blue', which rebukes not me, but you(!)"
or,
"I'm rubber, and you're glue. Your unscriptural rebuke bounces off of me, and sticks to you(!)"
(Ha! C'mon man! You knooooow this is good stuff! It's just got to be, because it's all Bible!)
Now, then. For your above open 'rebuke' of the open rebukers to be valid, you must prove our open transgression, by proving your elders, are indeed God's elders (which would in turn prove our error!). You see? Which has been the challenge you, and other loyalistas, have thus far refused. Otherwise, we are supposed to accept the continued accusation (albeit, now at least by a verse of Scripture, though seemingly quoted 'out of the blue'), whithout Scriptural proof of your good and our bad! And 'us good, you bad', don't cut it no more with us, who have gotten out of your bad, for our own good! You see?
imaskingwhy
Intermediate Member
Username: imaskingwhy
Post Number: 225
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 63.237.228.225
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 1:19 pm:
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"Father, let the same spirit that rests upon me, rest upon them, and if they fail in your ministry, then let a curse rest upon them"
RW Davis
This was said in 1986 at the graduation in St. louis MO. to a handfall of ministers being ordained. This was in front of the church. I know, I was among the handful and stood approx. 10 ft away from him when he said it.
Bryan David Hill
kirby
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Username: kirby
Post Number: 9
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 207.195.243.137
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 2:10 pm:
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Jason1212 or whatever it is,
have you noticed that the quotations that Derrick is using are from Denis.
my question is, how come Chaplain Derrick still quotes Denis' theology when he isn't with House of Prayer anymore? no animosity, just curious. doesn't make sense to me.
also Jason1212 or whatever it is, if you are still attending House of Prayer, have you tried Asking Derrick why he left?
although it is interesting that Chaplain Derrick hasn't posted anything on their forum board...maybe he wants to go back.
i'll give Derrick the chance to clarify his thoughts for us.
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 195
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 2:16 pm:
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3) This Scriptural 'instruction' in the righteousness of right use of Scripture, simply helps us to insure we are not only quoting Scripture, but also rightly dividing, or applying it, and thus giving the proper sense thereof. (2 Tim 2:15)(Neh 8:8)
There was an innocent game that people played, where they would mess with one another by quoting a Scripture 'out of the blue' in a context of no possible application. ex: (Walking up to a good brother) and out of the blue, saying 'Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his •••, nor anything like that...and he that curseth his father, and his mother, shall surely be put to death..." (And, depending on how well it was 'played', the other could look a little dumbly or confounded for a moment, then the player would let him off the hook by a slight smile, or wrinkle of the eyes, and big laughter, or chuckles go all around)
But, there are such folks who have made a mastery of this 'art' for their own benefit, and the ministerial games that these people play, is with more than a funny fire, but an absolutely strange, and destructive fire: 1) They wrongfully quote Scripture out of context, or the blue. 2) They perhaps add to the Scripture: "Honor thy father and mother, and doubly the pastor: and, He that curseth father or mother, or seemingly the pastor..."(Matthew 15:3-6). 3) They may, in 'ministerial efforts', take away from Scripture (Matthew 4:6). 4) Or, finally, certain may really get slick and add no-longer applicable Scripture, while taking away from the original!: All Christians pay tithe (to the pastor: not Bible, not God)...and pastors pay tithe of tithe (to the high priest 'Pastor'(Num 18:26-28)) (Who is really not God, though he sets himself up as such (2 Thess 2:3,4))...but the 3rd year rule (Deut 14:28) is out(!). Man, is that coveteously loading all the bases, or what?? Really slick, right? But, there be a fire with that oil that ain't...at...all...good!
"Ministerial snake oil maketh strange fire in tabernacle."
So, being all fired up is fine, but let's make sure it's the right fire: Bible, and Bible rightly applied! (1 Tim 1:7,8) So, with the Scriptures, let's not be mis-firing, nor wrongfully fired up, nor just firing off at the mouth! (Rom 10:2,3)(1 Cor 3:17)
kirby
New member
Username: kirby
Post Number: 10
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 207.195.243.137
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 2:22 pm:
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so Derrick, do you wish you were back in HOP or not? how come you won't answer?
everything you have been saying, I heard Denis say in his little hidden circles.
jason12712
Member
Username: jason12712
Post Number: 66
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 160.151.240.170
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 2:22 pm:
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I'm still with HOP but have never met this Derrick you speak of, for i'm only a year in this church. I don't know if the quotes are from Denis or not, but I do know the bible, and am looking at that one Tanakh thing that bluewater mentioned...looks like the OT NIV to me.
victorjohanson
Intermediate Member
Username: victorjohanson
Post Number: 260
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 66.223.233.130
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 2:32 pm:
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"everything you have been saying, I heard Denis say in his little hidden circles"
And where do you suppose Denis picked up these verbal gems?
Vic Johanson
polaris
Junior Member
Username: polaris
Post Number: 50
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 69.152.235.45
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 2:53 pm:
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kirby: just curious, are you in ntcc or in hop? were you ever in hop? Just trying to get a perspective of where your postings are "coming from". No animosity, just asking a question.
bro derrick: it may be benificial to those who read the posts to know in a more clear way why you did leave hop. No animosity here either. I have gist of your reasons from reading some of your posts. But some (like kirby) don't seem to get the gist of those posts. Thanks
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 196
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 3:15 pm:
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Dear Kirby:
If anyone has ever asked me why I left Lucifer's false ministries, and no longer help them (Not that I was much a help: so, too bad for them! Ha!) in their quasi-businesseriality of building their churches (some have, but many don't care, and why should they?). I have endeavored to tell them plainly: both personally and Scripturally. All have Biblic right to admonish, challenge, rebuke, etc... (Rom 15:14) The only difference for me, now, is: 1) If insincerity (not sincerely wrong), malice, trappers, snappers, etc... is shown, then they can take a hike, because I no longer play kid's games in adult's arena. (Children usually get straight answers, because most have not learned duplicity, yet...) 2) I no longer acept being right or wrong, based on who is judging (leaders, those with a name (Gal 2:6), etc...), but only on reasonable Scriptural grounds, and common human sense (which, if it truly does make sense, then the Bible will back it up) 3) I always reserve the final right to make my decisions, about myself, for myself, so long as others are not necessarily involved... 4) I let others speak for themselves, and any hint of ulterior motive, in trying to 'ask' about others, to me, is immediately suspect and so treated: avoid them. (Rom 16:17) 5) As a believer, I believe I have the Spirit of Christ too, so can act on personal faith for myself, without a supposed necessity of help from other 'leaders' of the faith (1 John 2:26,27)(2 Cor 13:5), even as they are free to follow their own personal faith of Jesus (which will never violate Scripture, nor transgress His Law: the Head keeps the commandments of the Lord first)
So, having answered the question of departure (Rev 18:4,5) at the outset, I apreciate the title, so I now officially declare myself by common demand, of an uncommon man (Mr. Kirby), to be: Chaplain for the FACTNET fighters of the faith, standing against the Loyalista looters of that faith, by standing in defence of the gospel of the faith: as it is written.
kirby
New member
Username: kirby
Post Number: 15
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 207.195.243.137
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 3:21 pm:
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Chaplain Derrick said:
If anyone has ever asked me why I left Lucifer's false ministries, and no longer help them (Not that I was much a help: so, too bad for them! Ha!) in their quasi-businesseriality of building their churches
hmmm. ok, so then you felt like Denis' ministry and ntcc is of lucifer's false ministries.
so that is why you left House of Prayer where you were at last.
ok, just trying to understand you, that's all
thx for clarifying that.
where do you go to church now? just curious?
ntcctruth
Intermediate Member
Username: ntcctruth
Post Number: 286
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 63.228.112.32
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 3:49 pm:
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"everything you have been saying, I heard Denis say in his little hidden circles"
And where do you suppose Denis picked up these verbal gems?
Vic Johanson
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Your post made me giggle, Vic, because I can totally hear you saying that...tone and all...LOL. It's always good to see your posts....and I'm not talking about the cereal either...LOL.
Bro Marc Perez
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 197
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 4:17 pm:
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"Good help in a bad thing, is not good. And bad help in a bad thing, is not good, but is better. And no help in a bad thing is better still. But good help to destroy a bad thing, is the very best!" (I John 3:8)
-I have often told folks that I was glad I was not a success at certain ministries, because then I would be as deceivably locked in (2 Thess 2:9-11) & lost as they may well be: I speak of those who have successfully pushed the sheep to build their church, and reaped the profits thereby. These be the successful leaders of really 'bad business'.
"Oh, Derrick, you're just envious, becaue you were a flat out failure! You were not a success, and so you are just spouting out sour grapes!"
Yes, all true, and thank God for it! Because:
"There are some things that God's children just can not do in their own lives, and there are likewise some things that God's ministers just can not do in the lives of others!" (1 John 3:9)(Rev 2:6)
-Ye know the former by their own fruits, and ye know the latter by their means of getting the fruits of others!
Quote:
"That's bad business."
-The shadow knows...yehahahahaha!
ntcctruth
Intermediate Member
Username: ntcctruth
Post Number: 287
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 63.228.112.32
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 4:18 pm:
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"everything you have been saying, I heard Denis say in his little hidden circles"
And where do you suppose Denis picked up these verbal gems?
Vic Johanson
---------------------
Your post made me giggle, Vic, because I can totally hear you saying that...tone and all...LOL. It's always good to see your posts....and I'm not talking about the cereal either...LOL.
Bro Marc Perez
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 198
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 4:37 pm:
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"Good help in a bad thing, is not good. And bad help in a bad thing, is not good, but is better. And no help in a bad thing is better still. But good help to destroy a bad thing, is the very best!" (I John 3:8)
-I have often told folks that I was glad I was not a success at certain ministries, because then I would be as deceivably locked in (2 Thess 2:9-11) & lost as they may well be: I speak of those who have successfully pushed the sheep to build their church, and reaped the profits thereby. These be the successful leaders of really 'bad business'.
"Oh, Derrick, you're just envious, becaue you were a flat out failure! You were not a success, and so you are just spouting out sour grapes!"
Yes, all true, and thank God for it! Because:
"There are some things that God's children just can not do in their own lives, and there are likewise some things that God's ministers just can not do in the lives of others!" (1 John 3:9)(Rev 2:6)
-Ye know the former by their own fruits, and ye know the latter by their means of getting the fruits of others!
Quote:
"That's bad business."
-The shadow knows...yehahahahaha!
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 200
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 4:43 pm:
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"Good help in a bad thing, is not good. And bad help in a bad thing, is not good, but is better. And no help in a bad thing is better still. But good help to destroy a bad thing, is the very best!" (I John 3:8)
-I have often told folks that I was glad I was not a success at certain ministries, because then I would be as deceivably locked in (2 Thess 2:9-11) & lost as they may well be: I speak of those who have successfully pushed the sheep to build their church, and reaped the profits thereby. These be the successful leaders of really 'bad business'.
"Oh, Derrick, you're just envious, becaue you were a flat out failure! You were not a success, and so you are just spouting out sour grapes!"
Yes, all true, and thank God for it! Because:
"There are some things that God's children just can not do in their own lives, and there are likewise some things that God's ministers just can not do in the lives of others!" (1 John 3:9)(Rev 2:6)
-Ye know the former by their own fruits, and ye know the latter by their means of getting the fruits of others!
Quote:
"That's bad business."
-The shadow knows...yehahahahaha!
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 201
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 5:14 pm:
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Sorry for the repeats: I'm not as technologistically proficient as I could be: i.e. I can't make the stupid things work right! Arrrrggghhhh! Maybe it's just me, and not the machine, eh??
Dear Polaris: you let someone talk long enough, and their real intents will shine through: which may indeed be the obvious ones from the beginning!
"Appearance-making is apparent to those who avoid appearances!"
"Apparently a parent should avoid being apparent just for appearances' sake!"
"I had a parent, once."
"You can only have one parent at a time..."
"Some preachers want their members to get the Holy Ghost, the way they want their members' cars to get gas in them...to make and pick up more contacts!"
"A real godly car is one that brings folks to church (chuckle, chuckle)"
"You've troubled the church of God!!"
"God loveth a cheerful giver, but He'll also take it from a grouch (ha, ha)"
-The preacher will , but not God, who does not love begrudged giving of necessity. (2 Cor 9:7) A classic, really cute way of directly contradicting God's own Word, as a humurous, psychological 'trick' of the preaching trade. Anything that gets more out of the people, is good. right? So long as it works, right?
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 202
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 7:57 pm:
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Once again, the person quoted is not the main point, but rather their meaning, and their source: Biblicly true, and so God, or non-biblic or unscriptural, and therefore man, and worse, the devil. And, if such quotes are in ministerial endeavors, then the kind of ministry, of what sort it is (1 Cor 3:13), may be more clearly known, with the consequent affect upon the heaers, whether unto edification or destruction. (2 Cor 13:10)
"Everything you have been saying, I heard...say in his little hidden circles."
-certainly not everything, in fact, I am not aware of many at all, except, of course he was not the first to 'utter' them, afterall:
"The uter from whence one hath gotten his milk, is not his own, except he be very dexterous..."
-Though, there are folks who apparently ascribe their thoughts to another, out of humility...
"Why would I look for good buscuits in the pig slop?"
-Exactly why we left! (Kirby) Couldn't have said it better myself! Especially, after the slop got more and more sloppy, while the buscuits were further apart and fewer between! So, the cross of Jesus was encased by a preacher's program...
"Well, if the preacher's not of God, then why does the Holy Ghost move in the services?!"
-Because, if the gospel of the cross is preached with any measure of sincerity, then God honors His Word (John 12:32), not the speaker, nor his life, nor his ministry! So, we get some good gospel preachin', but perhaps absolutely devilish, lousy, destructive, unscriptural ministering of one's own standards (proselytization), and own work program (recruitment)! To whatever degree, but:
"He that pusheth the sheep, pusheth the Shepherd of the sheep, and such hath no sincerity of purpose..."
"Will a man rob God?!"
-"Will a man push God's people?!"
-For Lucifer's pushy potentates of the church world: (Gal 5:12)
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 203
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 8:34 pm:
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“It does no good to demonize them. You act like they are the devil incarnate!”
-No, not the Antichrist, but there be many antichrists already gone out (I John 4:1-3)(2 John 7), and are still going out…to ‘build’ new churches! To dig out new ‘works’! For ‘success’ and ‘growth’ and ‘winning’!
“Yea, we’re winning!!”
“Jesus builds His church, and men build their churches” (Matthew 16:18)(Gal 1:1)
"He that buildeth the church, other than Jesus, is a deciever and an antichrist"
"Paul never built a single church, and never laid claim thereto"
"He built that church from the ground up and made it a success!"
"No man, who has ever laid the foundation, which is Jesus Christ, and built thereon as a wise masterbuilder, has ever laid claim to building the church."
"Physical pornography says: Look at my body! Spiritual pornagraphy says: Look at my ministry!"
"When that teacher said he was content to pastor a local country church, and I lost all respect for him!"
"You need to quit writing and listen to me!"
"There is a difference between desiring others to hear the Gospel of God, for their own good, and demanding you listen to me, for your own good!"
"A dominator of the your faith wants to make your decisions for you, because he knows better for your own good, than you do!"
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 204
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 9:01 pm:
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"We want you to win, because if you're winning, we're winning"
"Some people want you to win, because that is the only time they win, because now they win off your win: they are 'leader's of the church', managers of the workers, dominators of the faithful, merchandisers of the sheep!"
"Lucifer's ministry is the church building business, and organizationalism is his handiwork!"
" I wish I had a spiritual 2x4, to hit some of you preachers over the head, to make instant successes of you!"
-My God! See the love? You're own wanna-win leader doesn't even like you, if you're not succeeding. But, then:
"The devil doesn't even like his own!"
"I never had sex with that woman!"
"I've never done any of you wrong!"
-Not by your own standards and definition of success, but biblicly? Your whole ministerial program is one big pain in the chest of Jesus' body.
firedup
Junior Member
Username: firedup
Post Number: 49
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 62.253.128.15
Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 3:10 am:
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"Christian missionaries must be reported and ferreted out without fail because they are cunning wolves that serve a tool of imperialism"
This "qoute" is an open warning issued by the government of North Korea to it's people.
Whose side are YOU on when you attack the Christian Church?
Are not similar attitudes expressed against NTCC?
bluewater2
Advanced Member
Username: bluewater2
Post Number: 634
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 66.75.252.89
Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 9:24 am:
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I think the North Koreans have it right. It's there country, let them set policy.
ntcctruth
Intermediate Member
Username: ntcctruth
Post Number: 292
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 9:36 am:
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?
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 210
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 11:05 am:
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"Honeymoon's Over"
-Another classic intrusion into believer's lives by unbiblic rule in pulpits. (Deut 24:5) "It's time to get back to soulwinning on post!" Weeks later the same couple was going thru the similar problems of all new couples, only intensified by the 'duties & demands' of unbliblicly charged believers, by unbiblicly dominating 'ministers': Whose side are they on? (If we minister unbiblicly, we minister unrighteously (2 Cor 11:15) in aid of the Wicked one's attack on God's church: the enemy within, from the 'top'! The safest, and best form of ministry is biblicly authroized, mandated, recorded...
"We have found the enemy, and they be us!"
-Pogo
"All a Christian needs to do, is to pray and read their bibles..."
-Quote from a God-called minister: biblicly based and blessed for the edification of the people. (Luke 18:1)(Rev 1:3) If we do these two things at home, as moved of God personally, we will do the other things of God's Word, as He calls us to, not as man would compel us to. (Gal 1:1) We will be safe in God's Spirit, and strong in His Word (1 John 2:14), submitting to God and resisting all the devil's devices from without and within!
"They shall have departed from the city of Rome and her suburbs by the end of the Lunar month, else they shall be seized and whipped with the scourge..."
-Decree of the senate of Rome (Alluded briefly to in I Claudius by Robert Graves), under the Emporer Claudius (45 A.D.?). All proselytizing Jewish missionaries kicked out of Rome: Why? Their organized door to door campaign for gaining converts to their synagogues! All religions, up to this point, were suffered freely in Rome. It preceeded the first period of Christian persecution in Rome (Nero: 60's A.D.): Were the Christians also unfairly tagged with the zealotry of these proselytizing Jews (Matthew 23:15), who's main effort was recruitment to their synagogues in the only Rabbi/preacher directed 'soulwinning' program I have ever found recorded in history, biblic or otherwise?? (Prior to mid-20th Century Jehova Witness campaigns)
If these analysis are not so, then prove the biblic validity of the beliefs and doings of the ministering; otherwise, the fire is false, and the air is hot and expansive, but all balooney! (Ha! C'mon man. That is funny! Right? No? Yes? Maybe??)
firedup
Member
Username: firedup
Post Number: 51
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 62.253.128.15
Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 11:44 am:
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"And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God"
Derrick,
I understand that you are hurt.
(In my opinion, I would say others than the current NTCC are more responisible for your personal situation as I understand it)
Regardless of who hurt you, or the pain, anguish, and rage you are feeling... please understand that while the continual attacks against NTCC may give you some degree of satisfaction, you are continually hurting the men, women, and children who have chosen to be a part.
Please leave NTCC alone.
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 211
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 12:43 pm:
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"One man's trash is another man's treasure"
"One man's sedition, is another man's whistleblowing"
“I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.”
-Barry Goldwater
"Preaching, teachings, doctrine, programs, ministerial sayings, etc... without direct Scriptural reference is man's personal extremism attempting to invade the church from the pulpit" (Gal 1:1)
"Favoritism at the expense of the body of Christ is man's moderation of the Scriptures attempting to salvation his ministry" (Gal 2:11)
"I would remind you that man's extremism in the pursuit of his ministry is no virtue! and let me remind you also that man's moderation in the defence of his program is a vice!"
"I don't care for the things of this world. I've been so busy for the church that the new car I got a month ago hasn't even been washed!"
-Omigosh: Was this 'pastor' suggesting some 'good' brother/sister out there needs to wash his car, while putting forth his own sacrificial zeal of service?? Would that not be just the absolutedness, mostest, grossest bit of psychologically 'inspiring' technique ever??
"Helping God to inspire others to do something for yourself and/or your program is unscripturally compelling the volunteerism of affectionate sheep, made working goats." (Acts 20:29)
"Some 'ministers' really believe people doing things for them is proof of God's blessing on their ministry; therefore, they go about trying to get others to do things for them by psychologically inspiring techniques, in order to prove to themselves their ministry is blessed of God!" (The ministerial go-getters handbook)
"Strangers may be compelled into God's house by His personal direction, but Christians are never compelled by God to do anything in His service!"
"To compel Christians to do something in the name of God, is to treat them as a stranger at best, and a sinner at worst"
"The calling of God is love, and the persuasion of God is with that first love He first called us with" (Gal 5:8)
"As a Christian, if you don't believe it, don't do it, and never, ever allow anyone, nor anything, to personally persuade you against your own conscience: This is the liberty of the saints in Christ Jesus." (2 Thess 2:2,3)(Rom 8:14-17)(2 Cor 3:17)(1 Cor 10:29)(Gal 5:1)(James 1:25)
ntcctruth
Intermediate Member
Username: ntcctruth
Post Number: 294
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 63.228.112.32
Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 12:59 pm:
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“I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.”
-Barry Goldwater
Thanks for that quote...I'm sure I'll be using it sometime down the road.
I don't care for the things of this world. I've been so busy for the church that the new car I got a month ago hasn't even been washed!"
-Omigosh: Was this 'pastor' suggesting some 'good' brother/sister out there needs to wash his car, while putting forth his own sacrificial zeal of service?? Would that not be just the absolutedness, mostest, grossest bit of psychologically 'inspiring' technique ever??
I think I remember a pastor saying that across the pulpit. Did that happen at Woodbrook?
Bro Marc Perez
ntcctruth
Intermediate Member
Username: ntcctruth
Post Number: 295
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 63.228.112.32
Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 1:00 pm:
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“I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.”
-Barry Goldwater
-Thanks for that quote...I'm sure I'll be using it sometime down the road.
---------------------------------------------
"I don't care for the things of this world. I've been so busy for the church that the new car I got a month ago hasn't even been washed!"
-Omigosh: Was this 'pastor' suggesting some 'good' brother/sister out there needs to wash his car, while putting forth his own sacrificial zeal of service?? Would that not be just the absolutedness, mostest, grossest bit of psychologically 'inspiring' technique ever??
-I think I remember a pastor saying that across the pulpit. Did that happen at Woodbrook?
Bro Marc Perez
ntcctruth
Intermediate Member
Username: ntcctruth
Post Number: 296
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 63.228.112.32
Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 1:03 pm:
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“I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.”
-Barry Goldwater
-Thanks for that quote...I'm sure I'll be using it sometime down the road.
---------------------------------------------
"I don't care for the things of this world. I've been so busy for the church that the new car I got a month ago hasn't even been washed!"
-Omigosh: Was this 'pastor' suggesting some 'good' brother/sister out there needs to wash his car, while putting forth his own sacrificial zeal of service?? Would that not be just the absolutedness, mostest, grossest bit of psychologically 'inspiring' technique ever??
-I think I remember a pastor saying that across the pulpit. Did that happen at Woodbrook?
Bro Marc Perez
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 212
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 1:32 pm:
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Falsey-firey:
I understand that you are challenged.
(In my judgment, I would say the same leaders are currently responsible for others' personal situations as I used to understand it)
Regardless of how you are challenged, or the pain, anguish, and rage you are feeling... please understand that while the continual admonitions against you obviously give you some degree of alarm and dissatisfaction, you are continuing to hurt the men, women, and especially the children who have chosen to be a part of your program. (Rom 1:32)
Please leave FACTNET alone.
Or, suffer the admonitions of Scripture and change your own situation for the better (and any who follow your example). Or, meet the Scripturally challenging points with Biblic defence of your own ministry & program; otherwise:
"Falling balloon is bag with too much wind, and not enough heat..." (Confusius, may have said)
"One man's attack is another man's admonition" (Prov 9:8,9)
-The time is running out for certain, where I will must needs obey this Scripture, except there be seen fruits worthy of repentance. (Matthew 4:7-9) Either join in the baptism with the holy fire of Scriptural defence, or stay out of the waters you are muddying with muddled pretence of 'care' for souls. Feed us true Bread to prove the points, and quit playing with the 'out of the blue' bread of misfired Scriptures feigning to do God service. (John 16:2)(1 Cor 5:8) Otherwise, I will be entitled to call you: 'Big Blue', or 'Bad Blue', or his 'Blueness', or the Egyptian 'Baker of Blue'...(and woe, and confusion, and sorrow of the world)
"The food of the sheep gags the goats, and goats' milk is an abomination to the sheep!"
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 253
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 4:09 pm:
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"Some wear spiritual sunglasses to some churches to avoid the bright & true Light of God's Word, others ought wear spiritual sunglasses to some churches to avoid the dark and false light of man's program!"
"I purposefully wear rose-colored glasses, so that I will not see the faults in others"
-great leader of Christians...
"Rosey-tinted glasses keep a positive mental attitude about the continued success of your business, though others simply will not measure up, and keep letting you down!"
"The difference between rose-colored and rosey-tinted glasses? Covering a multitude of sins for the cause of Christ, and trying to ignore a whole bunch of mistakes and failures for the sake of the program!"
"We've got to use, what we've got"
-same great business leader of wolves in sheep's clothing!
"What we've got is people to use!" (up!)
'We've got to use what we've got, good or bad, because we've got to make it work, good or bad!"
-From the Handbook on Building Churches in the Ancient and Modern World... Ch. 10: "Ethics in the Ministry: Real Success May Allow for the Use of Bad People in Achieving Your Church building Goals. Or: The Ends of Success always justifies the means!
"Let's do something, even if it's wrong!"
-Quote from major contributing author of the preaching businessman's best-selling "The Handbook on Building Churches in the Ancient and Modern World.
"Some things never change..."
"God is a good God, and the devil is a bad devil!"
"The unbeliever ought not to touch the Lord's anointed, and the believer ought not to rail against the devil and his anointed" (Psalms 105:15)(Jude 9)
"Accusing the accuser of the brethren is not touching the Lord's anointed! But cursing out the accusers of the brethren is railing on the devil!"
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 254
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 5:16 pm:
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"The devil ran you out of that town!"
-The accuser of the brethren!
"Why are you here?? Because of failure, sir..."
-Question of great leader of bible college to returning ministers...
-What was the failure? Being there!!
"How many of you will admit you failed out there??"
-The accuser of the brethren getting the brethren to openly accuse themselves! (Now, is that slick, or what?!)
"How could you be in a town for several years, and only have 20 something members?!"
-The accusing questioner of the brethren, trying to get the brethren to accusingly question themselves! Double slick!!
"Do you think that I could convince someone to come to church in a year?"
-the challenging great leader who never himself did so that year!
-The proper answer? "I don't know sir. I suppose if you tried, you could. But, since you haven't done so, I cannot really say..."
"Real leaders lead the way: Jesus, Paul, Samual, Moses, etc..., but really great leaders organize others into lead the way!"
"We want you to win, because if you win, we win. It's called a win-win!"
-The winning philosphy of managers who want others to lead the way. It's called "Managing the Way"!
"A win-win is when I get a cut from your win, so I don't have to win for myself anymore!"
"Skimmed Milk: The top 10% cut for the 'leaders' of the 'winners' in the church building business!"
"Mandated tithing in the Christian church is milking the sheep. Mandated tithing of the tithe in the Christian church organization is skimming the milking of the sheep: Skimmed milk!"
firedup
Member
Username: firedup
Post Number: 93
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 62.253.128.15
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 6:29 pm:
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"I am more affraid of my own heart than of the pope and all his cardinals. I have within me the great pope - SELF" - Martin Luther
"Certain Factnet GROUPIES are certainly motivated by selfish reasons" - Fired UP!
"A certain lawyer was willing to justify himself"
"Who was the neighbor?"
"The one who showed mercy"
"Go and do thou likewise"
letgodbetrue
Intermediate Member
Username: letgodbetrue
Post Number: 181
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 68.253.55.154
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 7:02 pm:
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"Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig likes it."
imaskingwhy
Intermediate Member
Username: imaskingwhy
Post Number: 226
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 63.237.228.225
Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 11:42 am:
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The pot calling the kettle black
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 257
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 2:45 pm:
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Brian, my man!
Review of thread intent, spirit, 'rule':
Quotes, sayings,etc...(By others, or own) portraying visions of life. Specifically with the ministry of God: whether such sayings and the vision they bring into the church, are Biblicly supported, without biblic support, or even contrary to Scripture, and so showing their godly influence or not.
That means a quote, and then biblic discussion...
I know some folks only respect 'rules' from their own leaders, and have no respect nor integrity of rule elsewhere, even God's, if they aren't confirmed by the leadership, but I'm really only trying to help you be more legitimately effective.
"I am more afraid of my own heart than of the pope and all his cardinals. I have within me the great pope - SELF" - Martin Luther
-perfect, thank you!
"Pray for me, bro, Pray for me"
-an overabundance of such requests, though biblicly based (1 Thess 5:25, Heb 13:18). It is a 'Psychology of Preacher Priority'(!) Continual, habitual 'requests' (which all good sheep will do) begins to focus in on the preacher in all prayers, and so putting his face on Jesus' Head (whom we are endeavoring to look unto...) Preachers popping themselves into believers' consciousness like popes! It's called: 'Poping in' (!!)(Ha! C'mon man!) 'Popes Popping In'(?) 'Pop In Popes'(?) Real PIPs (!!?) "You're a real PIP preacher!" "PIPping Preachers!" 'PIPing Hot Preachers!" Popping into your prayers for a while, to stay: Feed Me New Shepherd! Popish Preachers!"
"In the morning, do you know who I pray for first? My pastor."
-Proof of Scriptural principles taken way out of bounds! My thought was 'Your wife?' I mean, that's only natural, right? (Gen 2:24)(Eph 5:25)
-He then went on to list the whole immediate family clan, down to the third generation of heirs to the family business: a real company man!
"If a man desires God to do more with the church, then let him do more for his wife!" (Eph 5:25)
"God's ministry and buiding of His church begins in the home: Take care of your own family first, and God will take care of His own family first!" (1 Tim 3:5)
measinner
Advanced Member
Username: measinner
Post Number: 591
Registered: 2-2006
Posted From: 4.242.66.39
Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 3:37 pm:
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Whose side was Paul on when he attacked Peter?
Whose side was John on when he attacked Diotrephes?
Are not similar attitudes expressed against NTCC?
Yea, and rightly so!
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 258
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 3:57 pm:
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"Certain Factnet GROUPIES are certainly motivated by selfish reasons" -Fired UP!
-OK, still in the ballpark, but sayings and quotations that 'endure' have a little more ring to them, don't you think? How about:
"Cetain FACTNET groupies are Certainly groupies!" (?)
-The word 'groupy' encompasses the self-explanatory notion of selfish reasons...
"Certain FACTNET groupies are certainly groping" (?!) ("...groping in groups")(?)("..groping groupies")(?)
"Certain FACTNET groupies are groping for more groupies" (?) ("...but only griping")(?)
"Certain FACTNET groupies are not just groping but really just griping!" (??)
"All FACTNET groupies grope and gripe, and really need to get a grip!" (Ha!)
-You see, there's plenty of potential there! Good post! Keep it up, you'll get it after a while. It just begins to roll off the tongue! It just starts to come natural, but the key is to be having some fun, attempting to have some humor at times. Liberal-like and Cultish people share the same unmistakable lack of humor at all. They just take themselves too seriously, because they just know they are so right. They are humorless, colorless, rudderless, hapless, etc... if they are ever directly challenged to plainly stand for what they believe and back it up with proofs, because they do not stand for what they believe, but rather what they are told, without any proofs!
"Challenge a foolish following on what they are swallowing and where they are wallowing, and they will sing the praises of their hallowed-wing, without any proofs for their fallowed-ring, and would dearly love (with pity) to watch you from the gallows-swing!"
Now, I understand your efforts are as a novice at this sort of thing, and I defintiely applaud the attempt, but I really do want you to do well at it, so keep trying. I'm sure you'll hit a real ringer.
(Though, firey, you may be a real master at it, so much so, that you were deliberatley clumsy, just looking for a critique like this to highlight my own pretensions to superiority. It is possible. I mean, real successful cult leaders, and their protoge's cannot be accused of being stupid, or dumb, in an intellectual sense. (It takes such skill to live and operate almost continuously in spiritual and political duplicity. There's a sort of erotic satisfaction to it. Sort of Luciferian in it's anointing!) However, they may definitely feel called upon to highlight the stupidity of others, even in their own camp!)
"You folks getting in debt out there in those works! It's just STUPID!"
-Quote from great leader of ministries, frustrated by many not winning, and so he not winning....The rosey-tinted glasses not resting so fitly on the head. Or, maybe he just took them off for a moment, like some do with their glasses, when they really want to get serious and make a point...
"Well, you know. He is right. It is stupid of us..."
"I come here really upbeat for the preaching, but I sometimes feel really low...But, I can take it!"
-2 overheard spontaneous responses after above 'exhortation' to the saints. The last remark was finished after noticing someone was noticing his statement...Recovery from the appearance of critical evil, as though the 'man of God' might be off...
So, they eat their own, and get their own to swallow with them!
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 259
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 4:38 pm:
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"Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig likes it."
-Perfect! Thank you! Good quote! That's why I try not to wrestle, but to instruct! Yet:
"There is a fine, but definite, line between biblic instruction and pig wrestling!"
"The difference between biblic intrsuction and pig wrestling: Rightly dividing the Word of truth between one another vs. wresting the Scriptures to our mutual destruction!"
"That's calling the kettle black"
-Double-rebuke by a quote in itself! Near perfect participation in the QUOTATION thread! (Only 'near', lest we get too puffy: 9.5)
Whose side was Paul on when he attacked Peter?
-That's close to pig wrestling: it's called casting your pearls before swine. Because most prove they do not come here to show biblic support for themselves: 1) They need none 2) It's a waste of time for them to do so: a) Because they have none b) This place doesn't 'deserve' such effort anyway.
No, they simply come to do whatever it is they do...and go home again, after having done whatever it is they've done...(Gal 2:6)
"Cultish pride: We don't have to defend...We simply are..."
"Challenging cultish teaching with biblic instruction receiveth the response of a form of cultish pride: Who are you to challenge us?!" (Prov 13:1, 9:7)
"Cultish defence: Why are you attacking us?!"
"Cultish leaders standing by biblic defence? Who hath ever heard of such a thing? Lack of the latter proveth the former!"
"It is easier for a camel to thread a bobbing needle than to Scripturally admonish a cultish follower!"
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 267
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 9:39 pm:
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"Don't ask what is wrong with it, but what is right about it. How does this glorify Christ?"
"Sir, can you show me in the Bible where soulwinning programs are found? Because I don't see any."
"Well, brother, just because they're not there, does that make it wrong to have one?"
-So, when it comes to the believer's response to the leader's challenge, we are to submit without Biblic proof. When it comes to a leader's response to a believer's challenge, they are to slide without Biblic justification!
"All admonitions roll downhill in a preacher dominated church"
"Stop attacking us."
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 287
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 2:35 pm:
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"If you throw a rock over the fence, the dog that barks the loudest got hit!"
“If you throw your personal stones over the pews, the sheep that bleats the loudest get bled!”
“In the ministry you have to learn how to be a good actor”
-Is that like goodly acting? Or, putting on a goodly act? Or, a good act in the flesh? Or, putting on a good show?
"God's not looking for good actors, nor even good preachers, but rather Jesus-called ministers..."
"Putting on a good show, and putting on a good act, are two entirely different things!"
"Putting on Christ Jesus, and putting on the people, are two entirely different things!"
"The direct inspiration of God is usurped by the directing intervention of men!"
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 118
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 8:01 pm:
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"For Growth..."
-What the man told the local pastor was the reason for having him move his whole congregation to his own HQ church.
-Flush the toilet, or step in a miry mud pit: what's that sound? The sound of a great, dark, sucking hole.
They think themselves to be great lights in the firmament, with whole constellations built around them. But rather they are the Black Holes in the universe, out of which nothing can escape, not even light. These phenomena are believed to be super-nova stars: they got so over-expanded in themselves that they ultimatey collapsed upon themselves! (Prov 16:18)(Isaiah 14:12)(Obadiah 4)(Matthew 6:23, 7:27)(Rom 12:3)(Rev 9:1,2)
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 121
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 10:13 am:
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"I would get me a sports car, but for some of these fault-finders and idiots around here..."
-A pastor's statement about his desires vs the congregation...
1) Trying to please men? Worried about people leaving? For the sake of attendance numbers, begrudgingly play to their bad attitude? (Gal 1:10)
2) Avoiding some appearance of evil? Foregoing of personal desires for some requirements of the ministry? Then why find-fault with the people? Finding fault with God?
The attitude of a user of people, who can't get all he wants, because of the people he is trying to use: Love/Hate relationship: Lust for souls and Resentment of restrictions to keep them all! The pitfalls of 'the business': poor baby...
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 122
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 12:55 pm:
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"So little time, that soon will pass, but only what is done in Christ, will last!"
"Only what is done in Christ is done for Christ"
"All that is done in Christ, whether great or small, is done for Christ"
"The reward for doing anything in Christ, is the reward of Christ Himself, and there are rewards besides" (Rev 22:12)
"We come to God, for God"
"The reward of Christ Himself is for accepting the invitation to be with Christ Himself"
"The reward of false christs for themselves is for accepting the compulsion to be under the false christs themselves" (Matthew 10:42, 24:24)(1 Peter 5:2,3)
"The reward of Christ is being with Him, but the reward of false Christs is being under them"
"Jesus Christ is rewarded for His cross, by souls willing to be submitted unto God by him, and false christs are rewarded for their programs, by people willing to be submitted unto Lucifer by them"
"Reward the false christs for their programs by submitting under them, and doubly so by defending them. Reward them as they have rewarded you by departing from them, and doubly so by exposing them." (Rev 18:6)
"There are they who want to avoid the appearance of evil, and there are they who want to avoid their evil appearing!"
"I haved loved the chastening rod since I realized that all people in authority have to bust your knuckles every once in a while when you get out of line."
"Feeding the sheep is accusation to the wolves. Feeding the wolves is busting the knuckles of the sheep!"
"God's ministers are supported by the Gospel they preach. Lucifer's ministers are made rich by the Gospel they preach" (2 Cor 5:26)(1 Cor 9:14)
"To live of the Gospel you preach is 'pay check to pay check'..."
"God's ministers are not brought forward on their journey by the saints, while they store up their savings for independent wealth!"
"Show me a minister who is independently wealthy, and I will show you a businessman who is not dependent on God's support!"
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 123
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 1:43 pm:
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"I'm not going to let some woman with bobbed off hair tell me how to build a church!"
-She wasn't, she was writing of a man who learned the hard way of how not to build a church, which almost destroyed himself, as well as others...
"Don't try to tell me how to build a church, if you ain't never done nothing for God!"
-So, said Balaam to the donkey. So would say an unrepentive Peter to the rooster. So would be said to Joel, who never done nothin' for God, so far as we know, except write God's prophecy of Scripture...
-If the fact that Joel was quoted by Jesus and the apostles, makes his prophecy legitimate, then the fact that Jesus and the apostles are quoted makes the admonition legitimate:
"Personal record or history may help others to be willing to hear God's Word, but no reputation, or even a bad one, does not justify anyone from refusing to hear God's Word." (Matthew 23:2)
"Even if a cult leader preaches the Gospel of the cross, the Holy Spirit will minister, and the believers ought to obey."
"God moves in the assembly, because He is honoring His own Word being preached, not necessarily the minister doing the preaching!" (Isaiah 55:11)(John 12:32)
"I don't believe God would move if the devil preached the Gospel!"
-The words of a man who wants people to think more highly of himself than they ought, by thinking the move of God in assembly is through the preacher, and honoring the preacher's life and ministry.
"Preacher's are not channels, but voice-boxes only" (Matthew 3:3)(Acts 2:14)(1 Cor 14:19)
"God is looking for good and simple pizza boxes to deliver His Gospel message to the people, not great managers, makers, nor delivery men of the pizza business!"(2 Cor 1:12)
"If a donkey speaks, or even a rooster crows, according to God's Word, then the Holy Ghost will convince the heart of sin, and turn the eyes of the hearers to Jesus!" (Num 22:28)(Luke 22:60,61)
"If the Lord opens the mouth of a dumb beast, then he will speak with man's voice, and if Lucifer gives a mouth to a minister, then he will speak with a damned-beast's voice!"(Num 22:28)(Rev 13:5)
"Just because someone speaks great things, does not mean they are ministering great things!" (Rev 13:5)
"Things may sound great, but that don't make them great!"
"When E.F. Hutton speaks, everybody listens!"
meisteremh
New member
Username: meisteremh
Post Number: 7
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 131.30.121.23
Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 3:55 pm:
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Which first--beasts or man?
GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 130
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 4:05 pm:
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Beasts came first physically, man comes first spiritually?
But now there is the man Christ Jesus, who was the Son of God from the beginning... So, now, it's man first physically too?
Now, if a man keeps claiming to be first, or at least, to have been here first, then he will become a beast spiritually as well. Sort of beastly-hearted?! (1 Cor 15:39)
Good, thought-provoking question!
measinner
New member
Username: measinner
Post Number: 2
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 4.242.21.30
Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 4:14 pm:
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"I don't believe God would move if the devil preached the Gospel!"
John Bunyan, the 17th century author of Pilgrim's Progress, the enduring Christian classic beloved by saints of all denominations, was saved in his late teens, having been, as he describes himself, a most awful sinner until that time. His biographer wrote that "in his boyhood he had but few equals for cursing, lying, swearing, and blaspheming the holy name of God. Had he gone on in sins he would have been one of the greatest sinners the world ever saw; and until the age of eighteen years, he was actually the ringleader of the boys in all manner of ungodliness. His profaneness especially was so intense and dreadful, that profane and irreligious persons were shocked by it. He stood one day cursing and swearing, and playing the madman beneath a neighbour's shop window, when the woman of the house, though herself, as Bunyan avers, a loose and ungodly wretch, declared that Bunyan's fury of cursing was such that it made her tremble to hear him. She told him that he was the ungodliest fellow for swearing that ever she heard in all her life, and that he was enough to destroy the whole youth of the town, if they did but come in his company. This reproof, so coming, and from such a source, struck Bunyan with a sudden and irresistible conviction and shame. He stood silent, and hung down his head, and wished with all his heart that he might be a little child again, that his father might teach him to speak without this wicked way of swearing. He was now nearly eighteen years old, and seemed hurrying as fast as he could go to destruction. But just at this time God began to snatch him from the ruin of his vices. . ."
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 131
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 4:42 pm:
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"Brother ... doesn't even need to pray about it, when I ask him about going somewhere."
"Brother! If God gave you a church, when would you be ready to leave?!"
"God sent you to that town, and the devil ran you out!"
"Why did you get into debt out there?!"
"Ah, being in debt shouldn't stop you from going, you'll always be in debt."
"Bankruptcy is a sin! It's your own fault for getting into debt!"
"Sir, I'll be in debt for the rest of my life! Yes, I know..."
-The formula for the failure of others, long-term indebtedness, and the heavy thumb of personalized rule and standards on top of them, not moving so much as a finger to help. (Matthew 23:4)
-So, people must learn to help themselves by departing out from under such false ministerial rulers, pushers, and businessmen for gain. (Rev 18:4)
measinner
New member
Username: measinner
Post Number: 6
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 4.242.21.30
Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 5:06 pm:
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Odashiman had this one that I think is just fantastic, and so on the mark:
Show me a genuine, compassionate minister in NTCC, and I'll show you someone on the verge of leaving the organization.
Great maxim, that one!
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 132
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 8:30 pm:
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omigosh! omigosh! omigosh! Perfect! Beautiful! So True! I almost choked on my smoothie when I read it! Thank you verrrry much! I like it! One for the record books! Archives of all-time truthful wonders! I've forgotten what I was going to post! It's blown me away! Oh well. We'll let it go for a while! A moment of silence, please!
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 139
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 10:27 am:
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"There is the righteousness and true holiness of God, and then there is the personal righteousness and holiness standards of the believer, which are well, until they begin to go about etsablishing it as God's standard for all believers."(Eph 4:24)(Rom 10:3)(Rev 22:18)
"Man did not keep holiness alive: God does that with every believer of His own. But a man did keep Pentecostalism going, which should have died."
-afterall, there still be Jews holding to the traditions of the fathers in Pharisitical fashion, and it should have died. (John 15:22)(Rev 13:3)
"There be those who are called of God to minister the Gospel according to the Scriptures, and there be those who are recruited of Lucifer to go about making a personal following with another gospel according to their own minds..." (Num 16:28)(Matthew 15:9, 23:15)(Rom 10:3)
"Called ministers of God love ministering to the people the written Word of God with the Holy Spirit sent down from heaven. Recruited ministers of Lucifer love making a personal following using the Gospel as their personal hook, and desiring the Holy Ghost to give them power to enforce it!"
"Pastors given of God to the church addict themselves to the ministry of the saints, but recruiters sown of Lucifer in the church lust for a personal following and resent having to deal with their stupid problems!"
"If I have to answer the call of God, why don't you?!"
-Now, there's a love for the ministry of the saints! He's addicted alright! To his own program building and recruitment, but not to ministering to the peoples' needs...
"You people are here to be trained how to be successful preachers. And you shouldn't need a personal pastor!"
-So, why do you have them call you, pastor?
-Once again: In the preaching business they need the title pastor to be able to intrude into the peoples' affairs to get them to do something the 'pastor' wants, but they don't like being bothered by the people for pastoral counselling in their lives... They wish they could just call themselves director and manager, to run the business by, and be done with the personal issues of their workers. But, the title 'pastor' is still useful. Especially that of 'man of God'. Then they've really got some control! (2 Cor 1:24)
-It's the simple difference between called ministers of God given to the church for edification and service to their needs vs. church building businessmen pushed of Lucifer upon the church for destruction and service to their own ends. (2 Cor 10:8, 13:10)
"A free saint delivered of cultism owes as much loyalty to their former personal proseltyizer of traditions and ruler of the church, as Paul did to the high priest of the synhedrin, and ought reward them both in kind."
-Paul completely came out of the synhedrin and the Jews' religion, learned the grace of God by revelation of Jesus Christ, and preached the Gospel according to the Scriptures, exposing the errors of his former rulers and equals of his own nation. Likewise the freed believer must completely depart the same, learn the same by the same Jesus, preach the same by the same Scriptures, and so expose the same kind of rulers and equals of their own organization. (Gal 1:14)
imaskingwhy
Intermediate Member
Username: imaskingwhy
Post Number: 198
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 24.17.145.27
Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 12:01 pm:
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Bro Derrick the number you gave me isn't working, please call me at 360-250-6968, or email me at zappertoy@yahoo.com Sorry for the interruption.
Bryan Hill
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 141
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 12:57 pm:
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No interruption at all! Just leave a quote next time! Like:
"No numbers are better than bad numbers"!!!
"No pulpits are better than bad pulpits"!!
-But preaching businessmen and great organizational leaders have just got to fill them, else their business suffereth damage, and their funds suffereth loss (especially with all those leases out there, they are signed for!)
"Thar's a whole lotta leasin' goin' on out thar!"
"Why is it I should have to go through all this just to get people to fill these pulpits?!?!"
-Poor Bracito!
-You see how men of bad-business (Unfunny men in black) dig their own pits? Having no biblic justification for ruling over other pulpits, and holding the 'works' in captivity by signing the leases, they set themselves up for failure, when the work of man ends! Will there be a general vacating of these bogus and fraudulent pulpits, and so drain their stored up wealth? or even...bankruptcy liquidation of the company?
-It's not a sin to go bankrupt (The sin was in the covetous over-indebtedness), but they preach against it, and see it as the incarnation of all evil (A number of bankruptcies among their licensed preachers is a red flag of misrule, as with the managers of a company: Company men in debt! So, they condemn anyone loudly who would do such a thing. Far better to keep them in debts, and the red flag undercover! In this way, they bind heavy burdens, and will not move one finger to help: unless they be family or favorite friends!)
"Some animals are more equal than others!"
-And so, personal rules over the group have not stopped these truly wonderful and godly self-appointed leaders from adjusting and changing them for their own purposes thus far...(Luke 20:16)
"Some handle the Word of Life, but others just juggle it!"
"What do proselytizers and jugglers have in common? They both earn a profit by their art, while seeking to be the center of attention in their circuses!"
-Wringleader Bros & Barnes & Bailey Circus!!!
Barnes & Ignoble Booking Stores!
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 170
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Friday, March 31, 2006 - 2:31 pm:
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"You made the rules, by your actions!"
"I made the rule, I can change it..."
-Which is it?
The first statement is to a general assembly of Bible College students. The second statement was privately to a church member, who was being given an open exception to the rule of needing permission from a local pastor to attend Bible College services...
Once you start down the road of personal rule presented as God's rule, the rule-maker and his rules will begin to contradict themselves and disrupt consistent order.
The ultimate use of unbiblic rule by man in man-made organizations and churches: The tests of trust and loyalty, which is now openly acknowledged to see who's really 'on board'.
It is another wresting of Scripture to justify unbiblic, uncommon, and abnormal personal rule over fellow believers and 'adults'. It is proof of the childish nature of cultism: childish rules-making: rules more for children than mature adults with sound judgment. The personal rule of a daddy that does not trust his own children. The devilishness of it is that there is no biblic basis for such a relationship of personal authority in the church.
Spiritual fatherhood (1 Cor 4:15) is a temporary participation in the ministry of the saints, by giving voice to the Gospel of the cross according to the Scriptures (Rom 10:17), not a continual position of personal rule over the children as by a parent, or legal guardian. Paul was not saying the people were his fruit (Rom 1:13)(Phill 1:22), but rather that the souls were God's fruit that He produced as Father and Lord. The labors of ministers are allowed as useful caretakers: sowers and waterers, not personal owners! Ministers do not bear the fruit of souls on their own branches, for the Vine! But rather we point to the Vine by speaking the Gospel of God, and lifting up Jesus from the cross, hand in hand with the fruits of righteousness and of the Spirit we bear on our heavenly branches (John 15:5)(2 Peter 1:4), that others may get 'hooked up' to the true Vine for themselves: branches of God in their own right!
Converted souls are not the products of our ministry through which the Vine ministers the sap, neither are preachers spiritual channels through which the faith, the Spirit, and the gifts, and the blessings of God come to their personal followers!(Matthew 23:9)(Gal 3:2,5) This is cultism at it's devilishly worst and heart. (Rev 18:14) By the cultish doctrine of "My ministry is your blessing", they make of none effect the ministry and commandment of God: The preacher is the channel of spiritual fatherhood, and so the preacher is also more honored than father and mother!
"Where would you be without me?!"
"God's ministers love to see souls saved and born into His own kingdom, and Lucifer's ministers lust for souls to be gotten into their churches!"
"Cultism is childish in it's nature."
"Ye shall know them by their rules!"(Matthew 7:16)
measinner
Intermediate Member
Username: measinner
Post Number: 166
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 4.242.102.218
Posted on Friday, March 31, 2006 - 3:57 pm:
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"Where would you be without me?!"
Wow! The brass some men have, to even think of such a question! I cannot imagine anyone who has sat through a year of first grade Sunday school classes having the impudence to ask such a question of another child of God, as though God needed them to accomplish His designs. Clearly the man who says such a thing does not agree with Christ that he and we are all brothers! Can you imagine what any good father would say, if he heard one of his sons suggest to one of his other children that they would not even be a part of the family if it wasn't for him? I can tell you this, if my dad heard one of his kids say that, it would be "drop your shorts and bend over" time for that brat!
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 171
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Friday, March 31, 2006 - 3:58 pm:
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"Christians have no rights!"
-Contrary to Scripture: (John 1:12)(Rom 15:14)(1 Cor 14:31)(Eph 5:1)(Rev 22:14) Therefore, against Christian welfare and prosperity: anti-Christian = anti-Christ. It is the cultist's ultimate psychological, Scripturally wrested statement of stripping the believer of being personal followers of God by personal decisions of faith. The minister is no more a serving helper of their joy, but rather a dominating ruler over their faith. (2 Cor 4:5)(2 Cor 1:24) The final and complete falsified subjection under the hierarchical higher powers of a vested higher priesthood over the laity, as personally ruling parents over their owned offspring!
"What helps me is a blessing to me, but what helps you is a benefit for you!"
"God's ministers help the people in their joy of Christ, but Lucifer's ministers help themselves to the people for the success of their ministry!"
Proof: The rules-makers are not subject to the rules themselves. The parents have the sound judgment of self-protection and admonition, that the children do not have: This also is contrary to Scripture. (Matthew 18:15-17)(1 Cor 6:4)
Pretty disgusting ain't it?
"There be some twisted puppies out there trying to play the big dog!"
"The 'great' leaders of childish ministries are not worthy to judge a cat and dog fight, much less the simplest matters between the saints of God..."
And, it is the cat and dog fight of their self-made competitive ministries that they are attempting to rule over politically. Which is the very self-made plagues upon heir lives, whereby they have no true peace of God in their pulpits, assemblies, nor homes: And this is the written judgment of God! (Rev 22:18)(Isaiah 48:22)
And, every time they think they are really winning and getting ahead in the church building business, someone comes along to ruin their day and make it bad for them, because people just won't behave and do right and work and win, so the leaders can keep on winning on their investments: the souls of men and women! (John 14:27)(1 Thess 5:3)(Rev 18:13)
"Ahh, the ups and downs of the 'people business'!"
And, in their deceived minds, they call this roller-coaster ride of seeking success on the labors and loyalties of others as: The burdens and griefs of God's true ministers, who are just trying to do something for God! (2 Cor 11:28)(Phill 1:16)(Heb 13:17)
silentlamb
New member
Username: silentlamb
Post Number: 3
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 66.223.233.130
Posted on Friday, March 31, 2006 - 6:59 pm:
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One of the quotes I remember was:
"If you take one drink, you are one drink drunk"
I say take it a step further If you take one bite, you are one bite glutenous"
mklo
Member
Username: mklo
Post Number: 78
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 67.185.118.158
Posted on Friday, March 31, 2006 - 8:11 pm:
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"There's something shady about a man with a mustache."
mklo
Member
Username: mklo
Post Number: 79
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 67.185.118.158
Posted on Friday, March 31, 2006 - 8:12 pm:
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"There's something wrong with a man who likes to be in the kitchen."
(Message edited by mklo on March 31, 2006)
mklo
Member
Username: mklo
Post Number: 80
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 67.185.118.158
Posted on Friday, March 31, 2006 - 8:23 pm:
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"As a preacher, you've got to be good at what you do. You've got to be good at God."
arron
Senior Member
Username: arron
Post Number: 1643
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.119.39.174
Posted on Friday, March 31, 2006 - 8:28 pm:
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pretty good quotes
bluewater2
Intermediate Member
Username: bluewater2
Post Number: 470
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 66.75.252.89
Posted on Friday, March 31, 2006 - 8:36 pm:
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"Religion is the last refuge of the scoundrel"
leftin1991
Intermediate Member
Username: leftin1991
Post Number: 126
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 63.25.119.57
Posted on Friday, March 31, 2006 - 11:06 pm:
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"If my people, which aRe called by my name, shall humblE themselves and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaVen, and wIll forgiVe their sin, And will heal their Land." - 2 Chr. 7:14
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 181
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Friday, March 31, 2006 - 11:57 pm:
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One of the quotes I remember was:
"If you take one drink, you are one drink drunk"
I say take it a step further "If you take one bite, you are one bite glutenous"
Thank You: Perfection... I noticed the other day a simple proof that alcohol is to drunkennesss as food is to gluttony, and that drinking alcohol with eating food are both lawful things to be governed by not offending the weaker in the faith: (Rom 14:21) There is absolutely no way on God's green earth with any sense of credibility that anyone can try to argue away that drinking of wine as being grapejuice. It was the matter of meats in the markets for idols and drinking of wine. How could drinking grapejuice ever come into that category of caution for the weaker?
In addition, for those who argue the Bible speaks of unfermented grapejuice, when speaking of wine in a permissive way, not of fermented wine and strong drink: (Deut 14:26) The Lord commends His people with the Levite present in their gates to the time of feasting, including "whatsoever thy soul lusteth after", not of sin, but of the good things of the earth to be enjoyed richly in thanksgiving to God (1 Tim 6:17). Such as, oxen, sheep, wine, or strong drink(!) And what was the response of one commentator that just cannot allow for such a license among the people of God? That the Bible does not always refer to wine and strong drink as fermented!! So, first we say wine alone is not always the fermented wine of 'wine and strong drink', so now we got to say that 'wine and strong drink' is not always fermented 'wine and strong drink'! C'mon man! And when the Bible speaks of sheep, it's not always referring to wooly ones either, right?!
"When denial of common sense reading of the Scriptures begins, the hidden agendas of men are exposed..."
Why not just take the Bible as it is written and quit trying to think that we have some special inside track of righteousness, that would seem to outdo God? Mature Christians do not allow their personal convictions and standards, that do not violate Scripture, to become the necessary 'better' or 'best' standards for others to follow! It's called 'superior' Christianity... or 'Holier than thou'...
leftin1991
Intermediate Member
Username: leftin1991
Post Number: 127
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 63.25.119.57
Posted on Saturday, April 01, 2006 - 12:07 am:
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his Only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not Perish, but have Everlasting Life." - John 3:16
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 182
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Saturday, April 01, 2006 - 11:26 am:
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“The world is depending on us.”
“God has given you that town!”
-Biggest lie of the devil around, and the exact opposite of God’s calling into His ministry.
"God does not give souls to the preacher, but rather God gives preachers to the church!" (Eph 4)(Rev 18:14)
“If it is to be, it’s up to me!”
“You are God’s greatest creation!”
“We’ve got the right message!”
“As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he…”
-So, they have it in their minds, and put it in the minds of others, that they are the saviors of the world. They only have the really right message (Jesus and Him crucified? Yes, but also Pentecostalism in the truly true holiness of God that everyone else has compromised on. No one else is really right, but just sort of right, which isn't enough!”
Voila! A bunch of spirited super-Christian Atlases are created and sent to take back the 'church world' for the organizational business world!
"Where would I go to build a church? To the town that has the most churches already, because they show they are religious in nature! You go to where the fish are biting!"
Proselytizers and go-getters snatching people out of the hands of them that have come before and are laboring now. Instead of participating in God's ministry for the sake of the church, they are Special Forces on a super-special mission from the truly holy God sent to 'hostage snatch' the people out of the hands of the compromisers... This is not a call to ecumenicalism, but rather to show the wrong spirit, or 'spiritedness', that comes along with being specially a Christian, or a cut above the rest: it is schismaticism in the body of Christ.
"Neither a schismatic nor an ecumenical be, but rather a fellow participant in the ministry of God!"
"Some are sent of God to invade the devil's kingdom, but others are sent of Lucifer to infiltrate the church world!"
"There is being spiritual, and then there is being 'spirited'!"
"Some receive the passion of Christ at the cross, others 'get a passion for God' at a preacher's altar!"
"The passion of Christ and being spiritual results in being a helper in the restoration of souls to God. A passion for another christ and being spirited results in being a dominator in the recruitment of people for another god!" (Matthew 24:24)(Gal 1:6)
The one desires 'power' to promote a gospel for the church building business, the other has power to preach the Gospel of the cross, as Jesus builds His church!
“Like J. Paul Getty (who would eat in a suit nightly, with or without guests) I must always remember who I am!”
The focus being on who we are, and the message we have specially, and not on who Jesus is and His message of the cross!
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 184
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 12:48 pm:
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"As a preacher, you've got to be good at what you do. You've got to be good at God."
"The Father's business is not the 'people business', but is the loving people business"
"If you minister not good to your brother whom you have seen, how can you minister good for God whom you have not seen?"
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 185
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 3:39 pm:
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"I don't manage the lives of the people."
An organizational leader denying that he governs the personal lives of the believers...
"To personally dictate your time, is to personally manage your life!"
Called assemblies bear God's authority; therefore, volunteerism without necessity is impossible: By virtue of the pulpit, it always tends to 'necessitate' participation... If the promotion has no Biblic basis, then it is a usurping of the pulpit authority from God, and becomes another man's personal direction of the peoples' time, and so management of their lives through the volunteerism of necessity. (2 Cor 9:7)
There is no biblic basis for Christian ministers calling, conducting, directing, any assembly of the saints, other than for prophecy: church services...
"If you don't go soulwinning, you're not saved!"
"If you're not going to go soulwinning with the rest of us as a group, don't go at all. Stay out of it!"
In addition, attendance by the believer at even the lawfully (Biblicly based) called assemblies are voluntary, without compulsion, guided only by the single admonition not to forsake, forget about, or quit attending such assemblies. And such assembling begins in the home, and continues wheresoever two or three are gathered together in Jesus’ name. (Home, Phone, internet, car, public square, etc...) The specific assembly place of the whole church therefore, is but a supplemental, not primary, part thereof. (Like eating out!)(1 Cor 11:20, 14:23)
"You need to be here every time these doors are open!"
Jesus and Paul went to synagogue as was their manner or custom. (Luke 4:16)(Acts 17:2) Their attendance was according to their personal ethic. The ethic, or manner, we are not supposed to have as believers is one of habitually forsaking, or refusing, or forgetting about the assembly. But the believer's manner, or custom, of attending assemblies is left to individual, or particular faith. (Rom 12:3-6)(1 Cor 7:17,12:27) No Christian has any biblic role in determining that manner of attendance for another member of the body of Christ. (1 John 2:26,27)
“We are not Christ-centered but Jesus-focused, and we are not preacher-centered but assembly-focused!”
On one occasion, at least, we know Jesus Himself refused to attend the Jews’ feast of tabernacles as others were doing, because He saw the leaven of man's rule over the assembly was making it to be of little spiritual value, or even harmful to the attendees. (John 7) Paul confirms such personal judgment is not only apropriate, but perhaps even necessary, to determine that attending a certain assembly may be worse for the believer than to go somewhere else, or to do something else, or to just stay home! (1 Cor 11:17)(Rev 2:9,3:9)
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 186
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 3:44 pm:
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"I don't manage the lives of the people."
An organizational leader denying that he governs the personal lives of the believers...
"To personally dictate your time, is to personally manage your life!"
Called assemblies bear God's authority; therefore, volunteerism without necessity is impossible: By virtue of the pulpit, it always tends to 'necessitate' participation... If the promotion has no Biblic basis, then it is a usurping of the pulpit authority from God, and becomes another man's personal direction of the peoples' time, and so management of their lives through the volunteerism of necessity. (2 Cor 9:7)
There is no biblic basis for Christian ministers calling, conducting, directing, any assembly of the saints, other than for prophecy: church services...
"If you don't go soulwinning, you're not saved!"
"If you're not going to go soulwinning with the rest of us as a group, don't go at all. Stay out of it!"
In addition, attendance by the believer at even the lawfully (Biblicly based) called assemblies are voluntary, without compulsion, guided only by the single admonition not to forsake, forget about, or quit attending such assemblies. And such assembling begins in the home, and continues wheresoever two or three are gathered together in Jesus’ name. (Home, Phone, internet, car, public square, etc...) The specific assembly place of the whole church therefore, is but a supplemental, not primary, part thereof. (Like eating out!)(1 Cor 11:20, 14:23)
"You need to be here every time these doors are open!"
Jesus and Paul went to synagogue as was their manner or custom. (Luke 4:16)(Acts 17:2) Their attendance was according to their personal ethic. The ethic, or manner, we are not supposed to have as believers is one of habitually forsaking, or refusing, or forgetting about the assembly. But the believer's manner, or custom, of attending assemblies is left to individual, or particular faith. (Rom 12:3-6)(1 Cor 7:17,12:27) No Christian has any biblic role in determining that manner of attendance for another member of the body of Christ. (1 John 2:26,27)
“We are not Christ-centered but Jesus-focused, and we are not preacher-centered but assembly-focused!”
On one occasion, at least, we know Jesus Himself refused to attend the Jews’ feast of tabernacles as others were doing, because He saw the leaven of man's rule over the assembly was making it to be of little spiritual value, or even harmful to the attendees. (John 7) Paul confirms such personal judgment is not only apropriate, but perhaps even necessary, to determine that attending a certain assembly may be worse for the believer than to go somewhere else, or to do something else, or to just stay home! (1 Cor 11:17)(Rev 2:9,3:9)
measinner
Intermediate Member
Username: measinner
Post Number: 182
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 4.242.18.29
Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 8:47 pm:
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BlueWater, I love your last post, here!
It is right on the money.
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 228
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 10:59 pm:
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""There's something wrong with a man who likes to be in the kitchen."
Including chefs? So much for Servicemen's Works Directors! Bunch of sissies! Afterall, one of the bgigest frauds in that business used to always show his humility by claiming only to be the 'Chief cook and bottle washer...' (Which, by the way, he never was and never did, but always had others doing that stuff. But it sure did sound good...for effect...)
"As a preacher, you've got to be good at what you do. You've got to be good at God."
True. And here's a corrupt version of the business-style preacher:
"As a preacher you've got to do what you've got to do!"
It's the difference between business-pukes in the 'People business', and called ministers of God in the 'People-loving business'...
"Religion is the last refuge of the scoundrel"
True, and:
"Christianity is not a religion but a relationship!"
"Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." (James 1:27)
harold
New member
Username: harold
Post Number: 2
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 150.137.68.69
Posted on Saturday, April 15, 2006 - 11:41 am:
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From the "You Can Make the Difference" Conference -"You can drive your Geo Metro, I'll drive my Cadillac"
victorjohanson
Intermediate Member
Username: victorjohanson
Post Number: 283
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 216.67.40.85
Posted on Saturday, April 15, 2006 - 2:46 pm:
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I think I'll just ride my bike.
Vic Johanson
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 242
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 11:46 pm:
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omigosh!
"The Lord told me that the only sin I've committed in the ministry, is that I've loved...my Cadillac(s)...too much!"
True...
And he sure do apreciate all them little folks out there, like us sheepies, who helped him to get them! (Shame on me for my past folly that has helped him in his own destruction!)
I really believe that the only chance they have is a general departure of their personal following, that they just may be left alone long enough, and isolated to the point where, as Nebuchadnessar, they would look back up to heaven and know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will! (Dan 4:25)
bro_derrick
Intermediate Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 243
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.212.65.52
Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 12:40 pm:
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"People only hear what they want to hear..."
The answer to our own questions of: "Why did I not see all this before??"
"Blindness and deafness happens in part where personal agenda plays a part!"
"Lovers of the truth hear all, judge all, and do all the truth..."
"Lovers of the law, lovers of the truth, and lovers of God..."
Senior Member
Here's a great reason to leave NTCC:
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God."-THOMAS JEFFERSON
Member
Oooh...I like that one. Don't believe I've heard that Jefferson quote before.Originally Posted by victorjohanson
“Let the human mind loose. It must be loose. It will be loose. Superstition and dogmatism cannot confine it.”
John Adams
Senior Member
"Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and, under a just God, can not long retain it." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume III, "Letter To Henry L. Pierce and Others" (April 6, 1859), p. 376.
Marc Perez
Senior Member
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