Is anyone here?

[raider]

Is anyone here? Is this forum abandoned?

Rauder

[truth_child]

no im here andnthe serpent seed doctrine is a lie and can not be proved by GODS WORD THE BIBLE

[dodge]

Hi "Raider" -- Are you one of those people who believe that mythological beings such as angels, devils, giants, Satan, Adam and Eve, Kenites and the all-powerful magical boss of them all, who you call "god," are real?

[raider]

Hi "Raider" -- Are you one of those people who believe that mythological beings such as angels, devils, giants, Satan, Adam and Eve, Kenites and the all-powerful magical boss of them all, who you call "god," are real?

Actually the only thing that I don't believe in as mentioned in your post is the "mythological" part.

I must say though, the way that the Bible is taught these days I can see how anyone might believe that it is a bunch of hoey.

However, I started reading the Bible and learning the customs of the day and a few other critical points, then the entire Bible started making sense, there is a common thread (theme if you will) that goes through the entire Bible. It becomes a book that proves daily (at least to me) that there is a God and what is going on.

There is no way that I or anyone else can actually teach this to someone else unless they want to learn.


I am talking about "The Key of David" mentioned in Revelation. It is also called "The key of knowledge", "the key to the house of David" in one point Jesus was scolding some "scripture lawyers" that were not teaching the key of David:

Luke 11:52
52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.
KJV

Once I started to understand the Key of David the Bible started being very readable and understandable. I need no further proof of God.

I am not trying to make you believe any of this. I am just saying that I do believe in God and the teachings of the Bible and maybe I shared a little of what I learned with the readers of this conference.

Ed

[raider]

no im here andnthe serpent seed doctrine is a lie and can not be proved by GODS WORD THE BIBLE

Would you believe it if I could show you in the Bible in the words of Jesus that there IS a serpent seed?

Of course, even if I do, there is always room to dispute. The Bible is also a book of faith.

[dodge]

Raider, what else can the characters in the Bible be but mythological constructs? If you look at the meaning of the word “mythology“, you will see that it refers to a “body of folklore/myths/legends that a particular culture believes to be true and that use the supernatural to interpret natural events and to explain the nature of the universe and humanity.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology

Satan does not exist in the objective world that we live in, nor do angels and devils. The only place where these characters have existence is in books such as the Bible and in the heads of those who believe it. You can’t say to me, “Hey, look over there, it’s Satan,” or “Look, Dodge, there’s Jesus.” The same is true of your Kenites, that mysterious race of beings that you believe are the result of one mythological being, Satan, having sex with another mythological being, Eve. By the way, I guess you believe that Satan also had sex with Adam, because Eve handed the allegorical apple to him saying, “Here, take a bite.” Did Adam watch as Eve did the deed with ‘ol Satan, did Eve watch as Adam got down and dirty with the Serpent? Or did they have a threesome? It appears that Adam was the world’s first homosexual. Or was this “Serpent” a shape-shifter, able to take any form it wished? Besides, none of this is actually in Genesis, it is only your interpretation based on taking ancient language and twisting it to mean what you want it to. There is no secret cabal of Kenites working behind the scenes plotting to enslave humanity and create some sort of One World Order that Satan will rule before your mythic Jesus will return. None of this is real, it is only in your head. Understand?

Do you also believe that “real Jews” are what we know of as European Anglo Saxons? Most Kenite-heads do, whether they are followers of Arnold Murray, Armstrong or Sherry Shriner. I like Sherry, she’s very creative and really out there, a real artist at spinning delusion wrapped in pseudo-history, conspiracy theory and Biblical verses. She is very entertaining.

So you have the Key, Raider? The Key of David that unlocks all the mysteries of the Bible and unfolds its truth before you…a truth that no one else who doesn’t have the Key will understand? And what, you’re here to teach people The Truth, the One Truth and Nothing but The Truth? How does that feel, to know The Truth and to see that all who don’t see what you do are blind and ignorant? Makes you kind of special, doesn’t it? Are you amongst The Elect, those who are the chosen of God to carry this Truth like some sort of beacon of light to lead everyone out of Egypt into the Promised Land? This is FactNet, established to shine a light on cults and cult-like organizations, such as yours. This is not an internet Bible Study Class where you proselytize your particular Biblical interpretation. But, if you want to “share a little of what you’ve learned,” go ahead. It will do no harm, and perhaps I can offer you a little of what I’ve learned.

[jimmie_]

dodge - Where does Sherry Shriner fit in with these other whack jobs?
Did she off-shoot from SC, or is she on her own trip?

BTW, how did you get interested in challenging these bozos?
What's your theory on how this stuff has developed any credibility?
I mean come on, it's just plain CRAZY!

[raider]

I am sorry, this is a way long response to your question and I don't even cover all o your points but you asked if I believed in God so here is a partial list of events that explain why I believe in God. And as you will see, my family was persecuted by their church, my family has not had a warm and fuzzy relationship with their church either.

I can't prove that anything is real. I can't even prove that we exist today (have you seen The Matrix?

There are those that scripture; I know that for a fact, there are folks that just don't understand scripture. There are even those that understand the scripture but don't want to say it out loud.

Any proof that I attempt to give you would fall, by definition, into your category of mythology. I can only say that absence of proof is not proof of absence.

When I was very young 0-3 years old, my family lived in a small eastern town. Some things went wrong and the church turned on them. It was a divorce situation. To make a long story short it ended up in my parents picking up and moving to the west coast. Was that God’s fault? I tend to blame the church myself. Too many churches are used to control people. They twist scripture to their end. I can’t say what their intentions are in doing this but it happens. I do not go to church, I have only been inside a “church building” maybe 7 - 10 times in my life (that I can remember) and most of those were to attend weddings.

When I was in my early 20s I started taking Bible lessons from a correspondence school. The first thing I noticed was their smallest donation (per lesson) was way more than I wanted to pay, so I wrote in a nice figure that worked for me. Then I read something in the lessons about the Ten Commandments, it had to do with working on the Sabbath. I knew I could not stop working on the Sabbath so I stopped taking the lessons and put my Bible away.

Without going into details I went through my life with a minimum of God. If someone brought a Bible into my presence I either walked or ran away. Since I mostly worked (and still work) nights I didn’t have much of this problem.

Finally over the last 6 years or so I encountered what I considered to be the final failure in my career. I did not get a promotion that I wanted, I work in a small department and no other promotions would be coming before I retire.

I fought for a year, I appealed with every personnel department that I could think of. Even thought the other person was promoted in a very underhanded way, I lost all of my appeals, one just can’t fight management and policy.

I tried to get a transfer to another department, I had two interviews with them. Someone with NO computer knowledge got the job!!!

Another department classified my 30 years of experience and training as “Legacy” that was the end of that transfer.

I spent three days going over my life, all the jobs that I had. Why I never got a promotion even though I was technically more knowledgeable then almost everyone else that I worked with.

Finally the thought popped into my head that I had not been reading the Bible. The next day I searched for and found my Bible. It had been so many years since I used it that it not only became brittle and was starting to fall apart but my eyesight wasn’t good enough to read the fine print. I bought a new giant print Bible.

I admit that I didn’t understand much of what it was saying but I kept reading. Finally I got some teachings that explained the customs and traditions of the day. I started buying books on Hebrew and started doing word analysis. The Bible started making sense! This only took two years.

I never believed any preacher when I heard something that disagreed with what I already knew, or thought I knew. I always get into my books and sort through everything. I spent four hours one day converting one verse of the Bible back to the Hebrew and finding the English translation for each word.

What I found, among other things is the very reason that I stopped reading the Bible was a false teaching! The reasons that my parents were forced to move to the west coast was caused by false doctrine. The more I learned from the Bible the more I realized that the problem was not with the Bible but with the various churches' false doctrine.

These days I love studying the Bible, it works for me completely. From time to time I land on some TV station where some preacher is misteaching the folks and it makes me sick. But this is not the Bible’s fault, not God’s fault (God has warned us for the last five thousand years to not listen to false teachers/prophets) we still listen to them and give them money to keep doing it.

All through my youth I have studied geology, mineralogy, chemistry (chemistry, mostly to identify the rocks that I found) then I moved into the computer industry. I always need to know how things work and why. Now I put this same analytical attitude to the Bible and so far there is little that doesn’t make sense.

The trick is to stay away from false teachers and seek the truth in God’s word. There are a few good teachers out there.

Now back to the “failure” that I had in my job. The job that I interviewed for turned out to be a “job from hell” at least for me, I was so glad that I didn’t get it. The promotion that I didn’t get in my department, things changed over the years, budget cuts, staff was reduced and our customers are being so up tight that I pity the person that got the promotion.

All the negative things turned out to be blessings; I just had to wait to see how things developed.

I had a car accident a little over a year ago. My car was totaled. Bad? Well the insurance paid off my old car and left me with enough money to get a better car that I am driving now.

Even when things seem to go wrong, it is never more then I can handle and there is almost always some good to come out of the “bad” event.

Yes, I believe in God because now looking over my life I can see all the times that I should have or could have been hurt, killed or fired I got away with little to no injury. Too many events to simply call them luck. Many of those times I believe God was carrying me, I should not have made it and could not have made it on my own.

[raider]

Actually you have the key too, you just disbelieve it!

[raider]

no im here andnthe serpent seed doctrine is a lie and can not be proved by GODS WORD THE BIBLE

Matthew 13:38-40
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
KJV

This proves the Serpent seed, in the words of Jesus. Can't get any better then that. The devil (serpent) sowed the seed!

[oneway]

Matthew 13:38-40
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
KJV

This proves the Serpent seed, in the words of Jesus. Can't get any better then that. The devil (serpent) sowed the seed!

So, what do you do with verse 37 then? That verse is the words of Jesus also.

Matthew 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;


Explain how both Jesus, and the devil are the sower of the 2 seeds, yet the devil has literal offspring, but Jesus doesn't. No scer has been able to explain this yet. Do you understand the proper way to interpret Scripture? You can't have 2 sowers of seeds, and one having literal offspring, and the other not. This is not consistant interpreting. If the devil has literal offspring, then so does Jesus. That's exactly what you are saying. Verse 37 proves that's what you are saying. If I were you, I would go with the correct interpretation, which doesn't contradict the sowers of the 2 seeds, and that is, these verses are referring to spiritual. Once you understand these verses in Matt 13, you can then apply that understanding to Gen 3:15. These 2 seeds are being sown into spiritual kingdoms. And that's exactly what Jesus, and the devil are sowing here. They're sowing souls into their spiritual kingdoms.

[raider]

So, what do you do with verse 37 then? That verse is the words of Jesus also.

Matthew 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

Explain how both Jesus, and the devil are the sower of the 2 seeds, yet the devil has literal offspring, but Jesus doesn't. No scer has been able to explain this yet. Do you understand the proper way to interpret Scripture? You can't have 2 sowers of seeds, and one having literal offspring, and the other not. This is not consistant interpreting. If the devil has literal offspring, then so does Jesus. That's exactly what you are saying. Verse 37 proves that's what you are saying. If I were you, I would go with the correct interpretation, which doesn't contradict the sowers of the 2 seeds, and that is, these verses are referring to spiritual. Once you understand these verses in Matt 13, you can then apply that understanding to Gen 3:15. These 2 seeds are being sown into spiritual kingdoms. And that's exactly what Jesus, and the devil are sowing here. They're sowing souls into their spiritual kingdoms.

I did not leave that off because I couldn't handle it, it is easy. I just didn't think it was needed for my point. I apologize for my error.

Matthew 13:37
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
KJV

Back to the Garden of Eden. God created Adam and Eve. The good seed.



Then in John 1:3

John 1:3
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
KJV

This says that all things were made by him.

Isaiah 54:5

5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.
KJV

Isn't our husband Jesus?

So now we have the one that sewed the good seed.


Now, the wicked one.

Genesis 3:14-15
14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
KJV

Now in Genesis, God said unto the serpent that he would put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed.

This is when the enemy, Satan planted the bad seed. God has identified that there is a "her seed" and "thy (Satan) seed"

Here we have the seed that Satan planted identified.

Don't believe me, I have nothing to sell. When God is talking to the Serpent what else can that mean.



This verse from Revelation 12:9 identifies just who the serpent is - the Devil.

Revelation 12:9
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
KJV

If I didn't make this clear, let me know and I will try again. I am sure I covered the facts fairly well here. I hope.
Raider

[turtle]

I did not leave that off because I couldn't handle it, it is easy. I just didn't think it was needed for my point. I apologize for my error.

Matthew 13:37
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
KJV

Back to the Garden of Eden. God created Adam and Eve. The good seed.



Then in John 1:3

John 1:3
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
KJV

This says that all things were made by him.

Isaiah 54:5

5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.
KJV

Isn't our husband Jesus?

So now we have the one that sewed the good seed.


Now, the wicked one.

Genesis 3:14-15
14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
KJV

Now in Genesis, God said unto the serpent that he would put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed.

This is when the enemy, Satan planted the bad seed. God has identified that there is a "her seed" and "thy (Satan) seed"

Here we have the seed that Satan planted identified.

Don't believe me, I have nothing to sell. When God is talking to the Serpent what else can that mean.



This verse from Revelation 12:9 identifies just who the serpent is - the Devil.

Revelation 12:9
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
KJV

If I didn't make this clear, let me know and I will try again. I am sure I covered the facts fairly well here. I hope.
Raider

Raider for people that do not know Christ you start talking about good vs evil no doubt they understand. But you start talking about the fact that the devil is real and he births new serpents they are going to think you are nuts. Then again maybe not.

simply put there are three types of people mentioned in the Bible. One being the belieer, one being the non believer and the other being the undecided. Now that is english 101.
One talks about serpents and angels it sounds mystical, but most people are lost and not intrigued. Then again I could be wrong, but many miss the symbolism. It kind of like CS. Lewis books The Chronicles of Narnia. And yet I do not wish to go there.

[truth_child]

only if you can prove by the scriptures that adam and satan or the snake had a baby and that is the serpent seed no what some book says aor some man says but what the bible says and also what he says there too

[dodge]

Hi Jimmie. I haven’t found any information about Sherry Shriner’s background that points to any particular group or affiliation that has led her to believe in the Serpent Seed Doctrine. She’s very well educated, having earned three degrees from Kent State University. (Criminal Justice, Journalism and Political Science) She talks about the two seedlines, the “Good Seed and the Bad Seed,” on her websites, books and radio shows but she goes further by stating that Cain’s sons, the Kenites, established Freemasonry; that Talmudic Jews are Kenites; that hollow earth dwellers and the Black Pope of the Roman Catholic Church and his Jesuit henchmen aligned with shape-shifting reptilian aliens and are involved in the New World Order conspiracy; and that the only way to fight them is with orgone weapons. She teaches that the Jews governing Israel today are the fake Kazar Jews, the Serpent Seed, and that extraterrestrials (aliens) are Fallen Angels.

It may be that she, as a very smart journalist, is cashing in on the popularity of conspiracy theories, Bible codes and the popularity of extraterrestrials. She sells books and is all over the radio and the internet. Your guess is as good as mine. I just find her entertaining. I don’t take her seriously.

I got interested in this whole thing when I discovered FactNet a few years ago, coming over here from the Operation Clambake message board where I was a critic of Scientology. I stumbled upon the Shepherds Chapel/Arnold Murray threads and wanted to know what they were all about. Actually, when I first started posting, I was open-minded, respectful, and feeling that they had the right to their beliefs. After reading all the threads and doing a lot of research, I became a critic. Thus, here I am, being a thorn in their side, an albatross around their necks, a pebble in their shoes, and a royal pain in the ass…a detractor. Besides, I’m having fun.

[raider]

Wow I thought from the name of this topic that you folks wanted to discuss the serpent seed. It seems from your reaction that you don’t want to be bothered with anything that pertains to God in any way shape or form.

That is cool with me, I have absolutely no interest in trying to convience anyone of the existance of God. I will take as much time as possible to bring forth Biblical points about the posted subject but it seems that you have made up your minds and only want people to disagree with.

I will not waste any more of your time, you have not won by any means, I just don’t have the time to spend here.

So, as Jesus said:

Luke 9:5
5 And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.
KJV

Consider this done.

[dodge]

Raider -- It appears that you have mistaken FactNet for a Christian-friendly website. I can understand that, because a lot of Christians come here and start preaching and thumping their Bibles; but whenever you do that here you will be confronted by anti-Christians, atheists and those who have a different interpretation of scripture than you do. If you want to commune with like-minded people, then I suggest you go to Christian message boards where people like me will be banned.

These threads that mention the Serpent Seed Doctrine were started by students of Shepherds Chapel and Arnold Murray fans, who originally came here to defend their beliefs; but FactNet is a cult awareness website with a focus on exposing cults such as Shepherds Chapel, Anglo Isrealism and other delusional systems that take advantage of people who are vulnerable and looking for answers. So, yes, if you want to shake the dust from your feet and flee, by all means go away…if you can’t take the heat don’t go near the fire.

[jimmie_]

raider – yes indeed, some of us have already "made up our minds” to disagree with fairy-tale belief systems and conspiracy theories involving demons, devils, angels, giants, and aliens from outer-space. Groups (and their “leaders”) who require their followers to accept these (and other) sorts of outlandish beliefs as unquestionable truths often evolve into cults. The exposure of cults is what FactNet is all about. It is a place where those who question the credibility of men like Arnold Murray and groups like Shepherds Chapel can come and offer their experience and opinions; and where those who wish to defend such beliefs can offer that side of the issue. The defenders of men like Arnold Murray and groups like Shepherds Chapel are (as perhaps you were) often disturbed to realize that some of us have “heard the word” but simply disagree. I understand if this forum turned out to be not what you expected. But I’m disappointed that you seem so disturbed by this that you feel you cannot join in the discourse here. Oh well.

dodge – thanks or setting “raider” straight on what FactNet is supposed to be about, despite what some of the defenders of SC have tried to transform it into – that is, a platform for their whacky belief system.
I myself found FactNet whilst following some links about a charismatic church I attended as an impressionable teenager in the late 60s & early 70s – the Living Word Fellowship; aka: “The Walk.” It turns out that a couple of those ministers – R.D. Cronquist and Robert John Stevens – became two of the most notorious Christian cult leaders of their day. I had no clue. My time in “The Walk” was brief. As soon as they started to talk about “spiritual warfare” with the “Hollywood witches” and let slip some of their extreme political leanings, I bailed; good thing I did. Some of the folks I found here at FactNet were seriously damaged by their relationships with “RD” and “Brother” Stevens. Some of them still need help and support in their recovery from their cult experience. Some of them are getting it, among other places, from some of the folks here at FactNet.

[raider]

Raider -- It appears that you have mistaken FactNet for a Christian-friendly website. I can understand that, because a lot of Christians come here and start preaching and thumping their Bibles; but whenever you do that here you will be confronted by anti-Christians, atheists and those who have a different interpretation of scripture than you do. If you want to commune with like-minded people, then I suggest you go to Christian message boards where people like me will be banned.

These threads that mention the Serpent Seed Doctrine were started by students of Shepherds Chapel and Arnold Murray fans, who originally came here to defend their beliefs; but FactNet is a cult awareness website with a focus on exposing cults such as Shepherds Chapel, Anglo Isrealism and other delusional systems that take advantage of people who are vulnerable and looking for answers. So, yes, if you want to shake the dust from your feet and flee, by all means go away…if you can’t take the heat don’t go near the fire.

Actually, I don't get a free ride with many Christians either. About the time we start discussing the rapture I become very unpopular. And my chin must have hit the floor when a Christian was telling me about the 6000 year old world!

I couldn't get a word in edgewise, a sign of rhetoric, he disputed carbon dating, said that the rocks were all created as they are to be millions of years old (6000 years ago). I guess God even created the millions of years old rocks 6000 years ago with extinct dinosaur bones in them!

No, I don't expect an easy ride, and the fire doesn't bother me. It is when I hit a stone wall that gets to me.

I expect not to be popular, I have been insulted by family members who go with the orthidox teachings. I have studied everything that I discuss, myself. I may have been given clues but I study it myself. If I can't prove it myself I don't discuss it.

All I ask/expect is to be able to discuss a subject without the wall!


The Bible says:

2 Timothy 2:15
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
KJV

The Bible does not say "Follow to shew thyself approved unto God" and I do not, nobody should. THIS is where trouble starts, cults would go noplace if peope would stop letting others tell them what is God's word instead of reading it for themselves. (My words.)

The part about rightly dividing the word of truth means not to take one verse or a couple of words from a verse and build it into a religion. (My words.)

Raider

[raider]

only if you can prove by the scriptures that adam and satan or the snake had a baby and that is the serpent seed no what some book says aor some man says but what the bible says and also what he says there too

I only offer Biblical proof. I do offer definitions of some of the words in the Bible. If one doesn't know the customs of the ancient Hebrews then we can throw out all the symbology of the Bible. There is no way anyone can understand a Bible that was translated from Hebrew to old English, then to modern English without reference materials. The Strong's is a long accepted dictionary of the Bible. Only today are "scholars" messing with it. I always use the older Strong's, it is not a replacement of the Bible, just a clarification of the words. Do you think the translators used reference material to do the original translation?

I never use "the work of man" to make my point. I do use dependable reference material concerning the language and translation. I am a serious student, I need to know exactly what God wants me to know.