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Thread: CFC Observations:

  1. #201
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    Lightbulb Community Groups

    From CFCMI's website: Community group fellowship will launch Wednesday, February 8, 2012.

    Many churches have opted to go the route of midweek fellowship gatherings in people's homes and other venues as opposed to formal midweek services. Much of this is designed to allow more autonomy among members to coordinate their own Bible study groups, and also to offset rising utility and maintenance costs on church buildings. In most churches, the groups allow for more bonding among the members in a relaxed, informal setting that is conducive not only for spiritual growth, but also for building healthy friendships.

    This may turn out to be a good move for CFCMI. The single men would finally be allowed in interact more with the married folks and families; there would be less of a need to have the building open all hours of the day as people would actually be doing stuff on their own. This in turn would cut down on utility and other costs associated with running a building 7 days a week.

    Going back to the single men, it was folly to keep them cooped up in a building every day from the beginning like a bunch of kids who need permission to "go out and play". Hopefully, this will mean the end of that disastrous program.

    We will see...
    Last edited by John Cady; 01-14-2012 at 07:42 PM. Reason: This means less need to come up with original sermon ideas for Pete

  2. #202
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    Default Concluding thoughts

    CFCMI is in a downward spiral. It's unstoppable. They can no longer hide who they are.

    The pastors are falling apart. Ed Thomas' heart is held together with bailing wire and duct tape. If he had any brains he'd start drinking copious amounts of that communion wine for his "often infirmities." It's just a matter of time before Pete Paine crashes and burns out as well. Time is their enemy.

    The members are falling apart. In addition to being cast off, people like Rich Snow wither away broke and penniless. After a lifetime of giving their firstfruits to the pastors, many have nothing stored up for old age. Tragically, they now see how unwise they were.

    This sad entry on the CFCMI Prayer Wall
    the other day caught my eye:

    From Bob J., Great Lakes, IL: Please say a prayer for healing of family relations, I'm unemployed, deaf and soon to be homeless. Thank you! Jan. 24 – CFCMI Prayer Wall
    I don't know who Bob J is, but his prayer request is typical of the situation that many find themselves in after a long association with CFCMI: family relations are damaged or destroyed, and people end up poor and destitute. So much for a "better world," eh? As I read Bob's plea I got to thinking: if Pastor Thomas had a good heart (pun intended), he'd invite Bob J into his big home with a bazillion bedrooms while Bob got back on his feet. You know, something like people might have done in Acts? You know, try a little kindness and you'll overlook the…. *Sigh*

    Eventually, there will be an accounting of the finances of the cult. I'm thinking the IRS will ultimately scarf up the majority of CFCMI's ill gotten gains. For anyone with foresight and courage, there's an opportunity to receive a portion of the CFCMI (i.e., Ed Thomas and Pete Paine) assets. If anyone should expire poor and destitute, shouldn't it be those who took from others all their lives?

    Time will either promote you or expose you. Things always end badly for people and organizations that don't do the right things. Very badly.

    And the end is getting closer with each passing day.

    Last edited by onetime; 01-28-2012 at 06:59 PM. Reason: Continue to "Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them." See you on the other side

  3. #203
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    Lightbulb Bob J is a friend of mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by onetime View Post
    CFCMI is in a downward spiral. It's unstoppable. They can no longer hide who they are.

    The pastors are falling apart. Ed Thomas' heart is held together with bailing wire and duct tape. If he had any brains he'd start drinking copious amounts of that communion wine for his "often infirmities." It's just a matter of time before Pete Paine crashes and burns out as well. Time is their enemy. The members are falling apart. In addition to being cast off, people like Rich Snow wither away broke and penniless. After a lifetime of giving their firstfruits to the pastors, many have nothing stored up for old age. Tragically, they now see how unwise they were.

    This sad entry on the CFCMI Prayer Wall
    the other day caught my eye: From Bob J., Great Lakes, IL: Please say a prayer for healing of family relations, I'm unemployed, deaf and soon to be homeless. Thank you! Jan. 24 – CFCMI Prayer Wall

    I don't know who Bob J is, but his prayer request is typical of the situation that many find themselves in after a long association with CFCMI: family relations are damaged or destroyed, and people end up poor and destitute. Eventually, there will be an accounting of the finances of the cult. I'm thinking the IRS will ultimately scarf up the majority of CFCMI's ill gotten gains. For anyone with foresight and courage, there's an opportunity to receive a portion of the CFCMI (i.e., Ed Thomas and Pete Paine) assets. If anyone should expire poor and destitute, shouldn't it be those who took from others all their lives? Time will either promote you or expose you. Things always end badly for people and organizations that don't do the right things. Very badly. And the end is getting closer with each passing day.
    You may not know who Bob J is, but I do. CFCMI ruined his relationship with his children. He once had a good job as a truck driver, and was giving plenty to their coffers. Now he is in need, and his faithfulness is being rewarded by "be ye warm and filled" - his immediate physical needs are not being met. Is anyone helping Bob find a job suitable to his experiences and his physical condition? Somehow, I doubt it. No, Bob will sadly wind up like Rich Snow - tossed out like the previous day's trash after no longer being one of CFCMI's "useful idiots".

    To Bob J: if you coome across this post, I do have a room available at my place where you can stay until you get back on your feet. All you need to do is contact me and fill out the paperwork with my landlord. All you have to do is let me know.
    Last edited by John Cady; 01-28-2012 at 08:11 PM. Reason: I don't have much, but I will offer what help I can

  4. #204
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    Default They've been warned for years...

    Wow. That's so pathetic. I've always said, CFCMI creates their own poster children!

    Doesn't sound like the growing, vibrant ministry Pete promised in his Coming Together Moving Up speeches, does it?

    Depressing reality of that cult: Sickness, financial ruin, homelessness...

    And when they kick off their community groups idea, they will be meeting at local Stuff 'N Chuck Buffets just like Waukegan.
    Last edited by turningjapanese; 01-29-2012 at 04:40 AM. Reason: Bob J: Presbyterian Church in Wildwood offers meals and floorspace on Tuesdays-- ask for Jan.

  5. #205
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    Default I don't think Panera customers like them zombies...

    Question:

    Why are them culties meeting at Panera when they spent 2 million dollars on a gym?

    Someone should check the MLS to see if that building is for sale.
    Last edited by turningjapanese; 02-10-2012 at 08:57 PM. Reason: Maybe, gym is for church, Panera is to recruit their downlines for Amway.

  6. #206
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    Default

    Wow, this thread is alive and well. I haven't logged in for some time, but I do frequently monitor what goes on here. Glad to see more "single menz" waking up and smelling the coffee. The situation with Bob J and Rich are truly horrific.

  7. #207
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    Default Your observations are still spot-on

    Yup. Some things are alive and well, unlike CFC and their broke oldheads. Even Ray Charles could see that coming down the pike. Karma is a real b*tch sometimes.

    It's so obvious CFC is a scam; and now there's no excuse to remain ignorant.
    Last edited by turningjapanese; 02-13-2012 at 12:47 AM. Reason: you have a pm btw...

  8. #208
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    Lightbulb Snow would have been forgotten had it not been for us

    From CFCMI's prayer wall: Please keep Rich S. in prayer for healing; you may also call to encourage him if you know him.

    It was quite a while back when Richard Snow was quietly whisked away from the International Headquarters in Norfolk to Waukegan, where he was never seen or heard from for months. We will not take full credit for Snow being mentioned on their website at all, but one has to wonder. We talked about his plight here for some time, in particular how Snow had given his all for the CFCMI organization only to be discarded when he was deemed of no further use.

    Perhaps someone in CFCMI felt remorse and a guilty conscience, and realized what happened to Snow was absolutely wrong; after all, he gave nearly 35 years to that bunch. Perhaps that guilty conscience was stirred after reading the discussions we had here, Facebook, and Aimoo. Perhaps the person who submitted the request was an oldhead who realized Snow deserved better than to be jettisoned from the organization. I don't claim to know the answers here, but it makes for interesting speculation.

    Let's face it: CFCMI never really paid much attention to the rank and file "eunuch" population. Rich was never selected for the inner circle, thus he wasn't much better off than most of the guys there. This also brings to light something else Pete discussed at a staff meeting in October 1999: in this meeting, Pete mentioned to the men about setting a plan in motion where the single men could be helped when they got older. It sounded like a good plan...after all, those who devoted most of their adult lives to the church should receive some compensation and assistance. It would only have been fair. However, nothing was ever said about that matter again. Once again, promises made were NOT promises kept.

    Richard Snow is only one of many who suffered a similar fate. There are other men who found themselves no longer part of the "fellowship" once their health, age, or employment status rendered them "unsuitable"; they too deserved better.

    The good fight therefore continues.
    Last edited by John Cady; 04-05-2012 at 01:55 PM. Reason: We will continue to be the cry in the wilderness

  9. #209
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    Default Another day, another stent

    On the Wailing Wall this morning:

    "Thank you all for your prayers; Pastor Thomas had another stent inserted today and should be sent home tomorrow"

    "Pastor Thomas is at home, recovering. Please continue to lift him up in prayer."
    What's the stent count up to now? Perhaps memories of April 1 caused Pastor Emeritus Thomas to have a relapse? I noticed the following quote on the Christian Fellowship Prayer Wall Facebook page:

    "The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much."

    Sounds pretty good, but they omit the first part of verse:

    "Confess your sins one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed."

    A passing thought. If those who profess a relationship with God did more confessin' and less coverin' up of sins and stuff, could it be possible that their "fervent" prayers might be more "effectual?" If folks who've covered up a ton of evil misdeeds and wrongs over the years would come clean with their fellow creatures as well as their Creator, might this be a demonstration of faith and belief that would be "counted" unto them for a little "righteousness?" Don't they need this kind of help from on high, because "as it is written, there is none righteous, no not one?"

    Beats me.

    Last edited by onetime; 04-06-2012 at 06:15 PM.

  10. #210
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    Lightbulb Growing Weary

    From CFCMI's website: "From Bob, Great Lakes, IL: Please say a prayer for me, I feel that God will answer your prayers over mine. I am 90% deaf, in poverty, believed that God would not forsake us."

    I know Bob in Illinois, and I offered a place for him to stay here so he can get back on his feet. His comments reflect two critical areas of discussion:

    1. Feeling God would answer others' prayers over his own. This was the result of some really bad preaching over the years, where the CFCMI leadership browbeated people into thinking it was wrong to pray for their own needs and acting accordingly in faith. I have heard Ed himself preach that it was selfish to pray for one's own needs when there were others who needed prayer. No wonder people remain in crisis, and that is saddening.

    2. Believed instead of believe - it is past tense now. This could possibly be a typo, but what if it isn't? What if Bob's plight has damaged his faith because of the lack of compassion when he needed it most? What really amazes me is how, despite all the months Bob has prayed for help, this situation has grown worse. I cannot help but wonder if the rest of the congregation is deaf to Bob's pleas for help. What did Jesus say to those who saw the hungry and did not feed them?

    Matthew 25:41-45
    41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
    42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
    43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
    44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
    45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

    This problem, sadly, is not limited to organizations like CFCMI, but it is seen even in mainstream churches. We have seen over the years an attitude of apathy over the crises facing brothers and sisters in the faith, and it is painful. Granted, we live in rough economic times, but the true believers have always reached a hand to help the needy - if not in monetary means, through food, a place to spend the night, even a ride to work. When people cry out for help and their pleas go unanswered, it causes one's faith to be shaken. If faith in God cannot be shaken, then faith in people and organizations who claim to be following God's heartbeat is shaken.

    To Pete: has anything been done to help this man, who has worshipped in your congregation for many years? Are you willing to, as you once said, get your hands dirty with real ministry? Or is everything you preached nothing more than lip service? If Bob leaves the faith - not the CFCMI organization, but God - his blood will be on your hands, as will the blood of many others who have been wounded over the decades and whose cries went unanswered.

    Ghandi said it best: "If Christians would really live according to the teachings of Christ, as found in the Bible, all of India would be Christian today. I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." Sadly, this was why Ghandi died a Hindu.

    If we cannot even provide love and comfort to those in the household of faith, how do we expect to show it to those who are not?
    Last edited by John Cady; 05-08-2012 at 07:57 AM. Reason: Bob, I still have a room available. Let me know & I'll tell the landlord.

  11. #211
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    Default To Bob, Great Lakes IL: Forget about CFCMI

    Quote Originally Posted by John Cady View Post
    From CFCMI's website: "From Bob, Great Lakes, IL: Please say a prayer for me, I feel that God will answer your prayers over mine. I am 90% deaf, in poverty, believed that God would not forsake us."

    I know Bob in Illinois, and I offered a place for him to stay here so he can get back on his feet.

    To Pete: has anything been done to help this man, who has worshipped in your congregation for many years? Are you willing to, as you once said, get your hands dirty with real ministry? Or is everything you preached nothing more than lip service? If Bob leaves the faith - not the CFCMI organization, but God - his blood will be on your hands, as will the blood of many others who have been wounded over the decades and whose cries went unanswered.
    CFCMI’s entire “Established 1974” history involves recruiting sincere people like yourself by convincing them that they’ll be part of something big and wonderful, something special—something “of God”—if they’ll just heed the call and join. There’s a big price to pay, of course, and that involves giving up virtually everything—money, freedom and relationships (especially female). You are useful to the ministry only as long as you agree 100% with the church leadership and that you regularly transfer money to the church, which is, and always has been, under the complete control of the Davis/Paine/Thomas family. When you are no longer useful (i.e., you disagree, you fall upon hard times, you become sick, worn out or old), you are ignored or cast out. It’s the CFCMI lifecycle.

    CFCMI has always been like this Bob. I know firsthand. I was a part of the CFCMI lifecycle in the 1970s. After some initial resistance, I gave in, joined up, gave all that I had, and then endured much abuse. Fortunately, my “lifecycle” was relatively short: I was able to see before too much time that CFCMI was no church of God, but a filthy, evil, corrupt organization that used its members as a revenue stream to support the lifestyles and carnal appetites of the ruling family.

    Surely you can see this now?

    I am touched by your plight. Like John Cady, it makes me sick that hypocrites like Pete Paine and Ed Thomas won’t lift a finger to help you—a longtime faithful member—even in a small way. No, there’re too busy with their own affairs to be bothered with “little people” like you. And that evil (now "retired") pastor telling you not to pray for your own needs—this same little man who used to dip his hand into various kitties and steal from the brethren so he could go out to feed his face and buy things for himself—shame, shame, shame on him! He has a “big” reward coming.

    It’s good to pray for your own needs Bob. It’s not as if you are praying for selfish wants, such as a new Harley Davidson motorcycle, a garage full of cars, or an exotic vacation. No you have needs, and you should take them before your God.

    Consider the Lord’s Prayer as the model given by Christ. It is as much focused on ourselves as on others. Here we are told to pray for our needs (“give us this day our daily bread”) as well as that we might be forgiving, that we ourselves be forgiven, and that we might be protected from evil. Consider David who, to God, was "a man after mine own heart.” You’ll see throughout the Psalms where David prayed constantly for his own needs, for forgiveness, protection and direction.

    Forget about what that whited sepulcher Ed Thomas said, Bob, “but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.” Don’t stop believing. Trust in God and forget about CFCMI.

    And please consider your friend John Cady’s gracious offer. Maybe it’s an answer to prayer?

    Last edited by onetime; 05-10-2012 at 07:13 AM. Reason: I’ll keep you in my thoughts and supplications

  12. #212
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    Default An excellent place to start would be 3401 Azalea Garden Rd

    "Pray for God to touch the wandering, confused souls in this world." – Christian Fellowship Prayer Wall, June 11
    A thoughtful request for the leaders and members of the cult who’ve been wandering and confused since 1974. May they hear the truth and have the courage to acknowledge it.

    Last edited by onetime; 06-16-2012 at 06:41 AM. Reason: “The truth which makes men free is for the most part the truth men prefer not to hear.” – Herbert Sebastian Agar

  13. #213
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    Lightbulb Gone but not forgotten here

    Onetime: I never thought of this before, but I wonder if any of the countless ex-members of CFCMI ever committed suicide? Since most have disappeared and are forgotten, there’s probably no way to ever tell.

    That is a good question, and a sad one too. Anytime someone left, and I asked what happened, I was told not to ask about the fallen soldiers. Looking back now, I see it as part of the information control - when one gets too close to finding the truth, people start to get nervous. Since we are free to discuss this here, let's take a look at what can lead people to despondency who spent a long time in CFCMI:

    - Missed opportunities for education
    - Being discouraged from seeking job promotions
    - Being told who you can and cannot date
    - Being duped into forsaking a promising military career
    - Losing touch with family and loved ones
    - Dealing with being sexually abused
    - Spiritual confusion
    - No support from the leadership
    - Always being broke
    - No transportation

    The list could continue, but we get the picture. A lot of those who finally walked out may have been free of the CFCMI building but were still in bondage by the torment of memories of being brainwashed and controlled in all manner of ways. Many of the victims, especially in the early days, lacked any network of people to help them in the jourmey to healing; as a result, some may have become so desparate that suicide was an option as Onetime alluded. For those who left before me, I may not know you but you are in my prayers...we are here for you when you need us.

    Our job here will continue long after CFCMI folds permanently. God help us on our mission!
    Last edited by John Cady; 06-27-2012 at 04:48 AM. Reason: For those who have been wounded, you never have to feel alone

  14. #214
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    Default Most have faded away

    Quote Originally Posted by John Cady View Post
    Onetime: I never thought of this before, but I wonder if any of the countless ex-members of CFCMI ever committed suicide? Since most have disappeared and are forgotten, there’s probably no way to ever tell.

    That is a good question, and a sad one too. Anytime someone left, and I asked what happened, I was told not to ask about the fallen soldiers. Looking back now, I see it as part of the information control - when one gets too close to finding the truth, people start to get nervous. Since we are free to discuss this here, let's take a look at what can lead people to despondency who spent a long time in CFCMI:

    - Missed opportunities for education
    - Being discouraged from seeking job promotions
    - Being told who you can and cannot date
    - Being duped into forsaking a promising military career
    - Losing touch with family and loved ones
    - Dealing with being sexually abused
    - Spiritual confusion
    - No support from the leadership
    - Always being broke
    - No transportation

    The list could continue, but we get the picture. A lot of those who finally walked out may have been free of the CFCMI building but were still in bondage by the torment of memories of being brainwashed and controlled in all manner of ways. Many of the victims, especially in the early days, lacked any network of people to help them in the jourmey to healing; as a result, some may have become so desparate that suicide was an option as Onetime alluded. For those who left before me, I may not know you but you are in my prayers...we are here for you when you need us.

    Our job here will continue long after CFCMI folds permanently. God help us on our mission!
    After LR Davis was convicted and sent to prison in 1992, I put the entire Christian Fellowship experience out of my mind. For me it was over. Finally. The score was settled. I purged most of the documents, articles, pictures and artifacts I had because I became so tired of thinking about them. I shrugged off my experiences with the cult and moved on with life. I know I’ve been fortunate to be able to do this. I realize it’s not been so easy for many others.

    When I began posting here three years ago, I’d forgotten much of the fine, "granular" detail concerning many of the people, places and things involved with CFCMI. Especially the people. Other than the main characters, I could no longer remember the names of most of the others. Only their faces. They all simply disappeared without a trace.

    Recently, I re-watched the Band of Brothers. If you haven’t seen it, I highly recommend you do. The 10-part, 11-hour HBO series deals with the experiences of a group of WWII soldiers and officers all the way from basic training through landings in Normandy, various operations against the Germans—including the siege of Bastogne—and on to the end of the war.

    I found a particular scene in the series very moving. The men are all sitting is in a church as a narrator describes the situation. As he talks about coming up with a roster to see who they had left, the faces of the men no longer around fade away. Here’s a video clip from that scene:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_kiJryvmZY

    After I watched this, I thought of the many CFCMI faces I once knew and how they have slowly faded away. Their names forgotten by most.

    But they are not forgotten here.

    Last edited by onetime; 06-29-2012 at 12:26 AM.

  15. #215
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    Lightbulb Sandusky Report

    Former FBI director Louis Freeh released the results of his investigation into the scandal surrounding Penn State University and disgraced coach Jerry Sandusky. Freeh announced to the world that PSU's top administrators, athletic director, and the late Joe Paterno knew for years of Sandusky's behavior and covered it up. The major revelation was that Paterno knew much more than what he told anyone. Just like L.R. Davis, those who covered up Sandusky were exposed for aiding and abetting a felon and permitting him to continue harming children. For Paterno, even death could not save his crumbling legacy...he is now a blight on PSU's history.

    For those who continue to cover up the legacy of Davis and cronies, in the end there will be no defense. It may not be in this life with someone like Freeh revealing your sins to the world, but when we all stand before God there will be nothing hidden.

    Maybe that is why more oldheads are getting sick. That may explain part of Ed's own health problems. One cannot hide behind, and live, a lie without it taking its toll.
    Last edited by John Cady; 07-12-2012 at 07:00 PM. Reason: Come clean before God...take the stress off yourself while there is still time...

  16. #216
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    Default Random observations

    As of this moment, they still have the "CFCMI Conference 2012 - All the World" banner up on their website. The countdown clock is now counting up, as if to put as much distance as quickly as possible between such a forgettable event and the present. (4 Day, 16 Hr, 26 Min…tick tick tick....)

    From the Conference 2010 pictures, I counted about 80 people max. Even if one generously assumes this was only one-half of those actually present, the "international" event was still a tiny gathering. Based on the pictures posted so far for Conference 2012, it makes 2010 look like a rock concert.

    When I look at the very few pictures I wonder: where are the oldheads such as Ottoson, Hahn, Bellairs, etc.? You never see them among the few faces you do see in the pictures. Did they go the way of the Snowbird and Mastermind Lantis?

    I saw Little Red Riding Hood in a couple pictures but no Budster. Wonder how the ticker is holding up?

    If there are less people today than two years ago, it would seem that some of them left and are no longer with CFCMI. If so, I wonder if the Davis/Paine/Thomas clan will go back through the picture album and purge any pictures with ex-members in them?

    Is there anything going on over at Great Lakes anymore? Sure don’t seem to have a whole lot of recent "Happenings and Events." The latest:


    July 3rd, 2011 - Independence Day Cookout
    October 31st, 2010 - The Children Dressed Up as Bible Characters for Halloween!
    September 18th, 2010 - Pastor Wilson Visit (Prayer Breakfast)
    September 12th, 2010 - Hot Diggity Dog!


    Not exactly the stuff of growth here.

    You’ve probably heard of the philosophical question: "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" Another way to pose this question might be: "When CFCMI finally falls and nobody is left to see it, will anybody even notice?"

    Last edited by onetime; 08-08-2012 at 04:49 PM. Reason: Any new pronouncements from God, Pete?

  17. #217
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    Lightbulb Time marches forward

    Onetime,
    Now that you mentioned it I saw the countdown going up as well. As I looked through the very few photos of the event, I noticed that things were quite different from past conferences.

    - The main person in the photos is a widow who, along with her late husband, joined CFCMI after their son (who apparently has now left or is in a diminshed role) did years earlier. There are several pictures of her with what appears to be a new boyfriend and fellow senior citizen.

    - I did see Jim O in one picture. He was hidden behind Jeff Lynch and Barbara Brand.

    - The few remaining members of the once-mighty single-men's club are significantly fewer in number, and showing their age.

    - Ed was absent in the pics, but Pam was there. Ed's health status is probably still bad.

    - No pics of any of the "special services" were posted. Total attendance may only have been half Pete's projection, and some were there for the free food.

    - One photo that really stood out was of an older man - probably now in his late 40s - looking at a group photo from around the early 1990s beneath a display of Navy rank insignia. One cannot help but wonder what went through the man's mind. "Should I have re-enlisted?" "Where did all of my old friends go?" Maybe he was reflecting on how many years he invested in CFCMI, and wondered if it was time wasted. I looked through another photo of him, and I recognized him as Vince S, who was stationed with me on the Dwight D. Eisenhower.

    - There are more pictures of women taking an active role in church functions and meetings. With the apparent collapse of the Davis vision for the single men, CFCMI is forced to allow women more leeway in order to keep the foundering ship afloat.

    - Even one of Jim O's canine friends made the photo album.

    In other words, they were desperate for photo ops.
    Last edited by John Cady; 08-08-2012 at 06:48 PM. Reason: Time is indeed ticking...closer to the end

  18. #218
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    Lightbulb A Different Kind of Growth

    1 Peter 4:17 - For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

    Morbid obesity is the silent sin that has infiltrated the church over the decades. We in the Oneness branch of Christianity lost some great men due to their weight not being brought under control, leading to fatal health problems. Unlike many other issues in the church, this is a lifelong struggle many of us will have to contend with; if we are truly our brother's, and sister's, keeper, then we should encourage them to live healthy. This includes open discussion about nutrition and exercise choices.

    CFCMI shunned gym memberships because of their supposed stand on modesty; that did not stop me from working out and visiting the weight room when I was in the service. I may not be slender, but thankfully that helped my weight stay manageable. Yet those who bought into that bad advice are suffering from the many consequences of morbid obesity...and the church will not say anything!

    Looking a photos from recent CFCMI events, there is certainly a type of growth. People's waistlines are growing due to all the unhealthy lifestyle choices, so you know there are other health problems - high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes, sleep apnea, and so much more. The worst cases of obesity are surprisingly among the women, especially Pam, Debbie, and the Thomas daughters. I do not say this to be mean, but do either Christine or Kathy want to live and be healthy long enough to see their daughters grow up? Their choices will also have a negative impact on their children, as at least one child apiece will likely wind up with weight problems too. It isn't just them. I was nice and made no attempt to guess the weight of the ladies - blame that on some old-school etiquette; therefore only the men are listed.

    - Ed, before his heart attacks, probably weighed around 225. He would be the lightweight in this case. When he was on active duty, he once weighed 100 pounds less. However, due to a poor diet, coupled with high cholesterol and the stress of covering up LRD, his ticker took a beating.

    - Pete looks like he is somewhere between 280 and 300 pounds. The stress is starting to show on him physically.

    - L.R. Davis never said much about his weight till before he was locked up. When he was sentenced, he weighed approximately 260. At his heaviest, and this is a guess, he tipped the scales around 330. At 5'8", Davis would be considered morbidly obese - more so than Pete or Ed.

    - Adam, Pete's son, stands around 6'1" but from looking at him he probably weighs between 320-350. He could drop dead from a heart attack before his dad does.

    - Dan Lantis and Hubert Ulysse both seem to carry their weight well, and don't look obese; Bruce Wilson has a small gut but nothing morbid.

    - Rick Hahn looks like he's had more than a few all-you-can-eat buffets. He looks to be around 220-230.

    Jesus warned about surfeiting (gluttony):
    Luke 21:34 - And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

    Heart attacks could happen to anyone, as can diabetes, but the morbidly obese are more susceptible.

    Note: I originally sent a copy of this (without the CFCMI comments) to the pastor of the church where I presently attend. I have a feeling I may be asked to leave because I walked into "forbidden territory". My response to that:

    Galatians 4:16 - Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
    Last edited by John Cady; 08-31-2012 at 08:05 AM. Reason: Would any of them want to try out for The Biggest Loser?

  19. #219
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    Default The cult speaks (nom nom nom)

    Quote Originally Posted by John Cady View Post
    CFCMI shunned gym memberships because of their supposed stand on modesty; that did not stop me from working out and visiting the weight room when I was in the service. I may not be slender, but thankfully that helped my weight stay manageable. Yet those who bought into that bad advice are suffering from the many consequences of morbid obesity...and the church will not say anything!
    When it comes to ordering vittles, CFCMI has always said something…"Supersize it!"

    And it shows.

    Last edited by onetime; 08-31-2012 at 10:54 PM. Reason: Gluttony and drunkenness—two sides of the same coin

  20. #220
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    Default Dunning–Kruger effect in the gymnasium

    I came across this in my reading. According to Wikipedia:


    The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than average. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their mistakes.

    Actual competence may weaken self-confidence, as competent individuals may falsely assume that others have an equivalent understanding. As Kruger and Dunning conclude, "the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others"

    The hypothesized phenomenon was tested in a series of experiments performed by Justin Kruger and David Dunning, both then of Cornell University. Kruger and Dunning noted earlier studies suggesting that ignorance of standards of performance is behind a great deal of incompetence. This pattern was seen in studies of skills as diverse as reading comprehension, operating a motor vehicle, and playing chess or tennis.

    Kruger and Dunning proposed that, for a given skill, incompetent people will:

    • tend to overestimate their own level of skill;
    • fail to recognize genuine skill in others;
    • fail to recognize the extremity of their inadequacy;
    • recognize and acknowledge their own previous lack of skill, if they are exposed to training for that skill

    Dunning has since drawn an analogy ("the anosognosia of everyday life") to a condition in which a person who suffers a physical disability because of brain injury seems unaware of or denies the existence of the disability, even for dramatic impairments such as blindness or paralysis.

    Kruger and Dunning set out to test these hypotheses on Cornell undergraduates in various psychology courses. In a series of studies, they examined the subjects' self-assessment of logical reasoning skills, grammatical skills, and humor. After being shown their test scores, the subjects were again asked to estimate their own rank, whereupon the competent group accurately estimated their rank, while the incompetent group still overestimated their own rank. As Dunning and Kruger noted:
    Across four studies, the authors found that participants scoring in the bottom quartile on tests of humor, grammar, and logic grossly overestimated their test performance and ability. Although test scores put them in the 12th percentile, they estimated themselves to be in the 62nd.

    Meanwhile, people with true ability tended to underestimate their relative competence. Roughly, participants who found tasks to be relatively easy erroneously assumed, to some extent, that the tasks must also be easy for others.
    In other words, incompetents tend to rate their competency much higher than it really is. Because they're so incompetent they don't even know what competence or expertise looks like.

    Last edited by onetime; 10-09-2012 at 08:58 PM. Reason: Describes rather well a few ignoramuses in Norfolk who think they're competent to run others peoples lives, doesn't it?

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