The Marshall Govindan Babaji Fraud

[Rudra]

"Babaji's Kriya Yoga" is now taught by Marshall Govindan and his assistants around the world. It is an expensive three-part series of classes on kriya yoga supposedly taught originally by Babaji himself to Yogi Ramaiah, who taught them to Govindan.

Marshall Govindan (whom I know personally) doesn't even believe in Babaji--he merely uses the Babaji tale (about a 2000-year-old yogi who supposedly lives near Badrinath, India, but who can't be seen by PHYSICAL eyes) to promote his sadhana classes (on ayurvedic diets, mantras, breathing exercises, meditation, and hatha yoga postures). The sadhana he teaches, I might add, has been found effective only by a small fraction of the people who've taken his classes.

Whatever the merits of these teachings, Govindan should stop claiming that he is teaching what "Babaji" supposedly taught to Govindan's recently deceased Indian teacher, Yogi Ramaiah. Govindan has made many substantive changes in the sadhana he received from Ramaiah. If Govindan is right that "Babaji" is the ultimate source of the "teachings" specifically concerning kriya yoga in Ramaiah's classes, then Ramaiah's students must be right when they say that Govindan is not teaching BABAJI'S kriya yoga, but rather something else. Of course, it's ridiculous to believe in "Babaji" in the first place.

Govindan appeals to people's interest in astounding miracles in order to sell his expensive set of sadhana classes. He implies that you, too, can learn to do such miracles if only you'll sign up for his sadhana classes. It's rather a base sort of appeal, aside from being a fraudulent one (as hardly any such miracles have ever been demonstated by those willing to subject themselves to conditions imposed by academic researchers investigating paranormal phenomena).

Govindan uses false stories of miracles to promote his over-priced, needlessly expensive classes on spiritual topics. They lead people to walk around in a dreamy state filled with illusions and fantasies about incredible "events" that never actually occurred.

................PART TWO.............................

A Canadian who calls himself Marshall Govindan, a.k.a. M. G. Satchidananda, teaches an expensive series of classes on what he terms "Babaji's Kriya Yoga" (see www.babaji.ca/ or www.babaji.ca/NewSite/home.htm). Although he presents himself as a spiritual teacher whose mission is to help others progress on the spiritual path of kriya yoga, he is, first and foremost, a salesman and fundraiser. I have found, over a seven-year relationship with Govindan during which time I considered him to be my teacher, that virtually everything he says and does is motivated by the goal of getting as many people as possible to sign up for his classes, buy his books, and donate funds to his organization. He is interested in students only so long as they are likely to sign up for further classes. Once you've taken all his classes, it's unlikely you'll be able to keep in touch with him or ask him questions.

Govindan does his best to convince you that when you take his classes, you're not simply receiving the information given in class, but you're also getting a teacher who will answer your questions and assist you on the spiritual path. In fact, Govindan resents having to answer questions, answers grudgingly, and complains bitterly if you you ask him as few as four or five questions a year that you are asking "hundreds and hundreds of questions." He is not interested in whether people who take his classes benefit from them, practice the techniques, or advance spiritually. His only real concern is the quantity of people signing up for classes and the size of the donations that are made by those who have taken the classes.

I feel cheated by Govindan. He told me that the techniques are secret and cannot be published because it is important to learn them personally from a teacher and to work on them in association with a teacher. In reliance on this statement, and with the expectation that taking Govindan's series of expensive classes would enable me to obtain guidance from him on my spiritual practice, I travelled to India and Japan in order to take his classes, only to discover--after I finished the series and Govindan had no more classes to sign me up for--that Govindan had no intention of assisting me in any way. Apparently, once you finish his series of classes and he can't get anything more out of you, he's done with you and doesn't want to hear from you again. This explains what the secrecy is really all about--if the techniques were published, Govindan couldn't get you to sign up for his classes and hence wouldn't be able to make any money from you. The secrecy has nothing to do with getting students to obtain guidance from the teacher, because such guidance (if it takes Govindan more than a few minutes per year) is not available.

Govindan has a wild imagination in thinking up excuses for not providing guidance. Even when you're practicing meditation diligently, he'll tell you you're not practicing and he doesn't want to work with people who aren't practicing. Or, when you don't understand something he wrote and seek clarification (because after all, Govindan is a rather poor writer), he'll tell you you're being "too intellectual," and leave it at that.

Govindan's behavior reminds me of that of the behavior of Cuban government officials in 1939. Manuel Benitez, the director of immigration in Cuba in 1939, made money by selling landing permits which would allow Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany to land in Cuba. He sold these permits to any Jew who would pay $150. The Cuban government nullified the permits after they had been sold. The Jews sailed to Cuba, but were then forced to return to Europe because the permits were not honored. Likewise, Govindan sells admission tickets to a series of classes and an organization called "Babaji's Kriya Yoga" and claims that he is available to assist you. Only after you've paid for all his classes do you learn that he is not available to assist you.

The organization Govindan runs called "Babaji's Kriya Yoga" does not exist in anything like the form Govindan claims it exists. Govindan lists a large number of "contact people" around the world on his website at www.babaji.ca/NewSite/contacts.htm . The purpose of the list is to make "Babaji's Kriya Yoga" appear to be a much larger organization than it actually is, which would encourage more people to become interested in taking Govindan's classes. Several months ago, I emailed all the people on the list and found that half the "contact people" outside the U.S. did not even reply, and three quarters of the "contact people" in the U.S. did not even reply! Much of this false information (about non-existent phantom "contact people") has been posted online for several years, even though Govindan was well aware during all that time that it was false. I told one of Govindan's assistant teachers about this and he told me Govindan was planning to correct the misinformation. When I checked the contact list recently, I found that although a small amount of the misinformation had been corrected, the list still contains a vast amount of misinformation.

I don't mean to imply that Govindan has never in the past been helpful, or that he is incapable of being helpful. There have been a few occasions on which he was helpful. However, I hardly think that this justifies his refusal to give assistance after the training has been completed. So far as I am able to determine, the small amount of assistance he gives is simply to encourage people to finish his series of classes. After the series is finished by a student, he sees no reason to continue to provide assistance because he has no more classes in which to enroll such a student, and hence no way to make more money from such a student. Thus, those who have completed his series of classes are left with a set of complex exercises, but with no one to guide them or advise them on their practice.

A large number of former students of Govindan have lost respect for him because they have found him to be dishonest and untrustworthy. He does not keep his agreements with his assistant teachers (known as "acharyas"), and consequently he has far more FORMER assistant teachers than active ones.

Govindan simply can't be trusted. He preys on people's need for spiritual guidance in order to make money and keep his organization afloat, but he doesn't provide the guidance he promises.

An example of Govindan's approach to finances is the policy he once stated to me, that Westerners may not take his classes in India, but must take them in Western countries or in Japan. Obviously, if he was interested primarily in benefitting students, he wouldn't care where they took the classes. His reason for banning Westerners from taking his classes in India is simply that he doesn't make much (if any) money from his Indian classes, which are either free or very inexpensive, whereas he earns something more substantial from the classes he teaches in the West or in Japan.
I consider his discriminatory policy based on nationality to be highly unethical. In the U.S. or Europe, people are never kept out of meditation classes on the ground that they are Indian nationals and should take classes only in India.

Govindan's classes on kriya yoga are taught in a far less professional manner than were those of his recently deceased teacher, "Yogi" Ramaiah. Ramaiah personally checked at length each student in his classes to make sure that they were practicing the techniques correctly. Govindan does that task so quickly (sometimes in four or five seconds) that it is impossible for him to have actually determined whether the student is doing the exercise correctly. He doesn't even wait to observe one full breath from a student before moving on to the next student learning a breathing exercise. He also turns over the task of checking the students to incompetent assistants--people who do not themselves practice the exercises or know how to do them correctly. For example, he once used an elderly Indian man to check the students' breathing practices. When I asked this assistant about the instruction to close the glottus more on the exhalation than on the inhalation, this man became embarrassed and admitted that he didn't know anything about how to close the glottus or whether it should be closed in a different manner on the exhalation than on the inhalation.

Some of Govindan's beliefs are quite ridiculous. For example, he believes that in five or ten minutes, he can train people to prescribe ayurvedic diets for each other. There are three detailed versions of these ayurvedic diets, all of which are quite different from the others. Govindan thinks that in a few minutes, he can train people to tell other people which of these three diets is best for them. Govindan also believes that specific yoga postures (called "asanas") can cure serious diseases that even the best doctors in the world cannot cure. He has also taught that if Sri Aurobindo had practiced asanas, he would have become immortal.

[Rudra]

Spouses and Lovers; The Grace Course

Many people think spiritual teachers should follow the example of employers and keep their spouses and lovers out of positions of authority. I agree. Govindan has allowed his wife to take over a very large share of the teaching work he used to do himself. I think she is out of her league and owes her new authority to the mere fact that she is married to Govindan. Indeed, people would assume such things even if she were--contrary to fact--competent to do all the teaching he has assigned to her. To avoid the appearance of corruption, therefore, a person in Govindans position would be wise to choose someone other than his wife to share the many duties and responsibilities of the organization. There are, in fact, other assistant teachers in the organization who are much better qualified to teach.

He also let her put out a correspondence course called THE GRACE COURSE for $108. It is pathetic. It is one of the worst pieces of writing I have ever had the misfortune to read. I could have written a better course myself when I was 15. It is full of miserably unclear writing, unsupported statements, and self-contradictions. I found that Govindans wife had no interest in improving the course. In fact, she seemed to think that people who did not love her course ought not to be studying with Govindan. I think Govindan may share that view...he has many of his wifes deficiencies. Neither Govindan nor his wife seem to realize that a good student is not one who always agrees with everything the teacher says, but rather one who seriously considers and thinks about what his teacher says (as well as putting into practice those teachings which are useful to the student).

Govindans wife, in her "course," also used material from other sources without attributing them properly. When I mentioned this to her, she said she had no interest in such matters. Thus, she is a "writer" who is either guilty of deliberate plagiarism or who is so ignorant about ethics as not to know that when you use the material of other writers without ginving them credit, you are stealing their work.

I also found that Govindans wife had engaged in fraud. She stated that she would answer questions about the course...thus, you were supposedly not purchasing simply a ridiculously overpriced piece of shoddy writing, but a real course. In fact, she quickly gave up after answering four or five questions, for no valid reason. (I think she was just lazy.) If I had known she would do that, I would never have wasted $108 on the course.

My experience with this course was typical of my experiences with Govindan. I found that he has no real intention to help students but only to collect large donations from them. If you have tons of money which you love to give away, and never disagree with anything Govindan says, and never ask any questions, Im sure youll get along just fine with Govindan. Otherwise, you should probably look elsewhere for a teacher. Govindan and his wife just want students who plunk their money down, shut up, and stay away.

Nonexistent causes, rigidity, donations.

My experience with the Grace Course (see above) reminded me of Govindans appeals for money for nonexistent causes, e.g., an "ashram" in Sri Lanka which never existed. There was some friend of Govindans in Sri Lanka, who may have needed money, but no ashram. Govindan ought to have just said there was this guy in Sri Lanka who needed money, instead of saying "our ashram in Sri Lanka" needed money. Govindan also talked about a nonexistent ashram he supposedly had in Germany. When you wrote to their email address, you learned that there was no ashram there, just some yoga student. Its similar with regard to his list of "contact people" on his website. Three quarters of the U.S. email addresses, and half the foreign ones listed are not contact people, but are just bogus email addresses intended to give the false impression that Govindans organization is much bigger than it actually is.

Another of Govindans numerous defects is his ridiculous rigidity. For example, people who have taken the first two initiations are supposed to take only 16 pranayamic breaths. Only those who have taken the third initiation are allowed to take 48 breaths. I personally didnt get much out of pranayama until I started doing a lot more than 16 breaths. Govindan ought to have advised me years before I took the third initiation to start doing more than 16 breaths, but he couldnt, because he adheres rigidly to rules even when they are ineffective or flawed in particular cases such as my own.

Also, consider that a person might meditate for ten years without taking the third initiation, and that person would be doing only a minimal amount of sadhana (16 pranayamic breaths) during all that long period. In contrast, a person who takes the third initiation a year after the first will very quickly be doing much more pranayama than the first person, even though the first person has had much more experience--that first person should probably have been advised years earlier to start doing more pranayama. A good teacher would know how to apply the teachings and "rules" in an appropriate and flexible manner.

The truth is, Govindan does not care about how the students sadhana is progressing. He only cares about the size of their donations.

The thing about operating on a donation basis (which Govindan adopts for some things but not for others) is that one just has to accept whatever has been donated. It is wrong to say that a student can donate what he likes and then get mad at the student for not donating enough. Govindan doesnt understand this. My opinion is that people like Govindan (who are very interested in building up an organizations treasury) should never operate on a donation basis.

It is interesting that many Buddhist groups (e.g., Goenkas vipassana and other Burmese vipassana groups) operate successfully on a donation basis, while very few yoga groups do. My analysis of this is that yoga teachers are in general (though of course there are exceptions) more interested in making money than Buddhist teachers.


I also think Govindan has overextended himself. Many people have complained that he doesnt reply to emails in a reasonable amount of time. Once a Malaysian was trying to organize an initiation in Malaysia, but he gave up because it took Govindan one month to reply to each email sent to him about setting up the initiation classes.

---------------------------------------------------------
I personally think that a fraud like Govindan should be put out of business, and information like this on the internet may help serve that purpose. While one is still a paying customer, Govindan is all warmth and friendliness, and he does his best to make you feel like a part of the "family." The minute it appears you will not be making more donations in the near future (or taking more courses), he will make it clear that he never wants to see your face again. Govindan is simply a salesman, selling expensive yoga courses. A real SPIRITUAL teacher teaches whether or not the student is rich enough to pay $1000 per year. A SPIRITUAL teacher is something entirely different from, say, a PIANO teacher or a SPANISH teacher. I hate to see spirituality corrupted by money.

[Rudra]

Govindan as Psychopath

Something I have forgotten to mention above is that several people, including myself, have been injured doing advanced hatha yoga practices taught by Govindan, yet he continues to teach them without giving proper warnings. He thus recklessly disregards the safety of others.

In addition, my experience with Govindan has been that he has in general a callous lack of concern for the feelings of others. He is (and I have given examples above) in the habit of repeatedly lying and conning others for profit, and does not seem to be able to experience guilt. He also seems to be incapable of maintaining enduring relationships, and is very fond of terminating his association with people from whom he does not expect to make money. Very few people remain associated with Govindan for more than two or three years. Govindan does not encourage people to develop spiritually, and would like people to go away permanently after being initiated (unless they want to donate lots of money). His "initiations" are misnamed--they are as much "terminations" as they are "initiations."

Thus, Govindan fits most of the criteria for being a PSYCHOPATH listed in the World Health Organization's Manual of Mental Disorders.
--reckless disregard for the safety of others.
--callous lack of concern for the feelings of others
--repeatedly lying and conning others for profit
--unable to experience guilt
--incapable of maintaining enduring relationships

[Rudra]

Govindan on Sex

Some of Govindans previously unpublished remarks on sex are interesting and worth considering:

(1) Govindan believes we should be moderate in sexual activity. "Moderation means the cultivation of calm awareness during all activities....If you are just indulging in sex for the pleasure of it, then this is a lack of moderation. If you are suppressing sexual desire, but cultivating fantasy and desire for sex, then this too is a lack of moderation. Cultivate the middle path of sattva: equilibrium, neither pushing away nor encouraging, but taking delight in the inner ananda which comes from being present in each moment, fully aware. For me the only game worth playing is the game of consciousness, being aware, otherwise one simply suffers in attachments or aversions. Whether one is a celibate renunciant or a householder or aspiring for one of these, the above is the path of moderation."

(2) "Babaji's Kriya Yoga is tantric, and therefore it uses all human experience to realize the Self and the Divine. To do so, one must cultivate the perspective of the Seer, or Witness, for example by practicing...(detachment) particularly during those activities, like sex wherein we usually forget Who we truly are. {See} the discussion of the Seer versus the Seen in the introduction to my
book Kriya Yoga Sutras of Patanjali, as well as the commentary on Sutras 1.2. Whenever we do, we may experience Self realization, and the accompanying Ananda or bliss. The reverse, I have found is also true.
Whenever we forget to be the Witness, we become absorbed in egoism, and suffer. So, the first and principle practice in tantra and Kriya Yoga is to
remember to remain as the Witness, in whatever you are engaged in. This applies to whatever comes up involving sexual desire.

Because our sexuality is such a powerful force, and can easily cause one to forget the above perspective, one needs to be circumspect, and approach it with respect for its potential to distract and lower one's consciousness; in the tantric tradition there are many preparatory rites and observances to help assure that one's consciousness is not lowered into the ego 'I am the body mind' state but that the above Witness state of realization is maintained. That is the goal of sexual tantra. It is not to cultivate a better orgasm. There is also the potential, with or without a partner to
realize what lies beyond the Witness Purusha: what Patanjali refers to as ishvara, the Special Self, or Lord, who is unaffected by any actions, consequences or any desires. The Siddha refers to it as the supreme grace
light within. This requires aspiration to know the Lord, and to surrender to the Lord, and deep inner concentration. When we want only the Lord, the
Lord reveals himself. This is grace....at some point one must cultivate aspiration for the Lord, who alone can clear all doubts, and take one into Himself or Herself. Ultimately, sexual tantra does the same....

Sex is necessary for procreation. On a spiritual path, it can be a hindrance or it can be an aid, depending upon our perspective. Our sexuality can be a mere distraction, or it can be a means to Self realization and God
realization, but that depends upon whether we are identified with the Seen, or with the Seer, respectively.

The Siddhas advised various methods, which involve the sublimation of our sexual energies from the muladhara to the crown chakra...with or without a partner, to turn what is usually a source of distraction into a means of realizing spiritual oneness. To reap their full benefit however, one must cultivate inner awareness, the
Witness perspective, and awareness of what lies beyond....

One may be a spiritual master and still have many subconscious habits,
desires, fears, known as samskaras, which create suffering for oneself, and
for those one is close to. Patanjali makes it very clear that such a masters spiritual consciousness may not be constant, until these
subsconcious seeds are uprooted. This is why Patanjali said that the yamas
and niyamas apply to everyone including such masters, and this includes
brahmacharya (celibacy or moderation if one is in a committed relationship).
The many masters who have not respected this have been controversial and
have brought scandal and ruin upon themselves."

[Rudra]

Govindan on Shaktipat

Here is Govindan's interesting view on shaktipat: "Several past and present "masters"
from India have succeeded in
attracting a lot of attention and followe
rs to themselves by pro m i s i n g
to give what is sometimes referred
to as "shaktipat," or the tra n s m i ssion
of energy resulting in altere d
s tates of consciousness. Swa m i [deleted]
and Yogi [deleted] are two examples of those who did
this for many years. Often the
recipients did experience altere d
s tates of consciousness, or uncon-
trolled movements of their body,
even hurling like a dog. Eve n
worse, some suffered long lasting
psychotic states, and permanent
deranged states of consciousness.
The record was not good, and the
re p u tations of both these teachers
was seriously damaged.
My teacher always used to say
with respect to promises of spiritual
ex p e r i e n c e s, or "shaktipat", "to put
m o re faith in your own sadhana
than in such pro m i s e s." There are
many reasons for this: First, our
human nature, with all of its sams
ka ras or habits, resists change.
Therefore, even after having a so
called experience of energy or whate
ve r, one returns to ones habitual
state of consciousness and neuroses.
Secondly, nowhere in the yogic literature
is "shaktipat" recommended
as a means of acquiring lasting
change in consciousness. Pa ta n j a l i
tells us that with re g a rds to our
deep-seated subconscious desire s
and tendencies, the samskaras, that
it is only by repeatedly returning to
the source, that is, by returning to
the samadhi state that we can
u p roort them. Thirdly, such a
promise leaves one dependent upon
the "master," whereas the objective
is to make oneself a master of one's
own, body, life, and mind. Fourth, it
gives the impression that "enlightenment'"
can be purchased for the cost
of a seminar, or as a result of an experience. Whereas,
enlightenment, or the establishment of one's consciousness
in the state of Self-realization known as samadhi, is
rarely attained, and only as a result of a long process of
disciplined sadhana or practice of spiritual or yogic disciplines,
with practically no exceptions. Fifth, any experience
is in the physical, vital or mental plane, and as
such, is limited in time and effect. In the spiritual
plane, one goes beyond ex p e r i e n c e s, time and space,
and realizes pure consciousness. This alone is the goal
of Yoga and all authentic spiritual tra d i t i o n s. Sixth, to
claim that one can transmit enlightenment to someone
else as a result of shaktipat is deceptive. There are no
shortcuts to "enlightenment." Finally, no truly "enlightened"
teacher would make any claim of specialness, or
superiority over others. When one reaches the enlightened
state, there is no "other;" one has gone beyond the
need to have or give any experience
because there is no longer an exper
i e n c e r. One is one with the
S u p reme truth, transcendent to all
experiences and forms. One enlightened
teacher, Ramana Mahars h i
would not even acknowledge a guru
disciple relationship between himself
and others.
What is important for eve r y o n e
to remember is that our sadhana includes not only a
transcendence or vertical ascent into the spiritual, but
also horizontal integration of Self realization into all the areas of our life."

--------------------------------------
I myself (Rudra) am a little skeptical about Govindan's
view that "shaktipat" is really so dangerous. I have heard of very few cases of people being injured from shaktipat, though I suppose we must concede that once in while a person is temporarily distressed after undergoing shaktipat. Even if we concede some risk of injury, we should remember that sometimes people are injured by drivers of cars, yet this wouldn't lead us to prohibit the driving of cars. Sometimes people are injured crossing a street, yet we'd never conclude from that that people should never cross the street. From the numerous reports of the spiritual upliftment caused by shaktipat transmission and the very small number of negative reports, I'd say the benefits of shaktipat far exceed the risks. And I don't think uncontrolled movements of the body are such a terrible thing.

Keep in mind that shaktipat has been done by a large number of masters--not just the two that Govindan discusses--and is almost a standard phenomenon within yoga. The 19th-Century Bengali saint, Ramakrishna, did shaktipat to Vivekananda. Yogananda did it to Kriyananda (according to my interpretation of Kriyananda's published account of his initiation in his autobiography). Rajneesh/Osho did it to many people. Da Free John (or whatever he is now called--Bubba Free John? Adi Da Samraj?) did it. Rudi (Sw. Rudrananda, d. 1973, author of Spiritual Cannibalism) did it. And the list could be greatly extended. Govindan is not criticizing two isolated masters but is in fact taking a position against a very large number of teachers including some that are respected by almost everyone in the yoga field (e.g., Ramakrishna).

Unfortunately, I do think Govindan is right than in many cases, "our human nature, with all of its sam-
skaras or habits, resists change. Therefore, even after having a so
called experience of [shaktipat] energy...one returns to ones habitual
state of consciousness and neuroses." Thus, shaktipat usually doesn't by itself produce a permanent change. But it can certainly inspire you to work harder to produce a permanent change.

Govindan is somewhat confused in his remarks about shaktipat, on the one hand, and masters who "claim [ deceptively] that one can transmit enlightenment to someone
else as a result of shaktipat. There are no
shortcuts to 'enlightenment.' [N]o truly 'enlightened'
teacher would make any claim of specialness, or
superiority over others." Govindan may be right in what he says about 'enlightened'
teachers or about the claims made by some teachers (or perhaps pseudo-teachers), yet wrong about shaktipat. We shouldn't confuse the phenomenon of a powerful energy transmission (i.e., shaktipat)
with the false claims made by some teachers about their own abilities or about the nature of enlightenment.

[Rudra]

WHO IS BABAJI? Who was Yogi Ramaiah?

I asked one of Govindan's senior students about Babaji, and received the following reply: "He can take a "physical form" but he is normally in a higher dimension -- in the realm of Shvetdeep which has been variously called Shamballa or shangrila. His presence permeates the whole world but is strongest in the Himalayas. He has been associated with many caves....Babaji is a descen[dant] or Avatar of Lord Shiva, who unlike the Avatars of Vishnu, comes in an immortal body and is here for an age, to oversee humanity's spiritual evolution. He has been here for many millions of years and has at times appeared as God to many peoples of the earth. Most of the time, however, He prefers to work annonymously behind the scenes and throught the hearts of spiritual people as inspiration or guidance....Babaji is God, [so] all Yoga comes from Him.... [S]ince neither Babaji nor God can be proved or disproved, we can justify any position by invoking His name [i.e., there's no point trying to use Babaji or God as an authority to justify one's point of view.]"

My own view is that Babaji, Shiva, Vishnu, etc. are silly myths for children. I have nothing against myths as literature. Some of the world's greatest literature is just myth--the Greeks' wonderfully entertaining myths of Zeus, Athena, etc.; Milton's Paradise Lost (all about the mythical adventures of Satan, among otheres); the Bible; Norwegian legends, which refer to the monster in Lake Mjøsa, the sea ghost, Draugen (a headless fisherman dressed in oilskins), and the Aesir gods, such as the god Thor. The problem arises when people take these myths seriously. Then we get situations such as that created by the late Yogi Ramaiah, the teacher of Marshall Govindan, whose favorite lines were, "Babaji says that..," "We have to all do this now because Babaji wants...." etc. In this way, Ramaiah used the Babaji myth as an excuse to dominate, abuse and take advantage of his students. For the most part, it was only because these students actually believed that Ramaiah was communicating with "Babaji" that they cooperated with Ramaiah's demands. (Persons wishing to learn more about Ramaiah should look at http://www.babajiskriyayoga.net/engl...sa-ramaiah.htm .) Ramaiah, of course, was only a special case of a much larger phenomenon, that of people demanding to be obeyed based on their supposed communication with invisible entities on a higher level than the human. Many of the world's major religions have a foundation of this sort. Of course, the various claims to knowledge based on such experiences and communications are all in conflict. A reasonable person, therefore, won't be persuaded by a teacher's statements that one ought to do some action or believe some claim simply because the teacher says he's being guided by a higher, invisible "being."

[Rudra]

Govindan has recently published an article extolling the spiritual practices, achievements, and teachings of the famous yogi, Sri Ramakrishna (1836-1886) of Dakshineswar, India (near Calcutta). In this article Govindan defends Ramakrishna's practice of idolatry, in which small physical objects that look like dolls are worshipped as gods. As Govindan says, "the deity is bathed, dressed and decked with ornaments, sung to with hymns, and invoked with mantras and meditations...." But whatever "name, or word [for the deity, e.g., Krishna, Shiva, Durga, Kali, etc.] is chosen ultimately lead[s] to the Nameless, the Formless...." If that is so, then one would expect idol worshippers to eventually come to see that God is nameless and formless.
Yet of the hundreds of millions of Hindus in India, there are almost no well-known examples of idolatry leading one to view God as nameless or formless. (I can't think of a single case.) Rather, it is generally through education--rational explanations--that idolaters have come to take an impersonal view of God as nameless or formless, and thereafter to abandon idol worship. I know of no evidence that idolatry leads to impersonalism.

Another serious problem with Govindan's enthusiastic expression of admiration for Ramakrishna is that Ramakrishna's teaching is directly opposed to Govindan's on many important issues. Some preliminary terms must now be explained. A "Sadhu" is a practitioner of yoga who has given up pursuit of wordly goals and devoted himself to achieving spiritual liberation through meditation. As Ramakrishna himself said, a Sadhu is a person who has "surrendered his mind, heart, and soul to God." A serious spiritual seeker, according to Ramakrishna, must become a Sadhu. But a Sadhu who "receives money...is not a proper Sadhu; avoid the company of such." Yet Govindan is deeply involved in fundraising and has in fact made such fundraising the primary goal of his work as the leader of the Babaji's Kriya Yoga organization. Govindan not only receives money but he also makes it clear to his students after they've been his students for a few years that he doesn't want anything to do with them unless they make large financial donations. The worst thing you can do if you are Govindan's student is to ask him for a discount on an activity. He might give you one, but you can be sure he'll get rid of you permanently shortly thereafter. Thus, Govindan must think Ramakrishna was completely wrong on money matters. Yet why, if Ramakrishna is so great, did he get money matters so very wrong?

A similar question arises with regard to sex. Govindan is married--his current wife is his third. (I am unsure whether Govindan's first marriage, to another student of Yogi Ramaiah, which occurred when he was about 21 years old, was ever legally registered, but he considered it a marriage at the time. See his book, "How I Became a Disciple of Babaji.") Yet Ramakrishna taught that a Sadhu must have "given up lust....He looks upon women as his mother....He will not even look at the picture of a woman."(And, mutatis mutandis, for women giving up lust, not looking at the picture of a man, etc.)Thus, Govindan must think Ramakrishna was completely wrong on sex. How could Ramakrishna have been so wrong about sex if, as Govindan says, Ramakrishna was so great? Don't expect Govindan to give an answer to any of these questions other than "That question is overly intellectual"--Govindan's standard answer whenever someone points out serious contradictions or problems in Govindan's teaching.

Govindan's teaching is diametrically opposed to Ramakrishna's on the most fundamental issues. Govindan doesn't advise spiritual seekers to become celibate and to avoid money. Ramakrishna told serious spiritual seekers that they had to become celibate and to avoid money. Why, then, does Govindan heap effusive praise on Ramakrishna?

---------------------------
All Ramakrishna quotes are from "Thus Spake Sri Ramakrishna," published by Sri Ramakrishna Math, Mylapore, Chennai.

[Shivoham]

I have been initiated to kriya yoga by the same group two years back. Based on my experience My opinion is that Marshall Govindan doesn't qualify as (my) Guru, not even as a teacher. What a sincere student expect from a guru is care and attention(why we need a guru otherwise? Books are better). A Guru must be careful about his students safety. But he doesn't. He simply shows some yoga lightning fast like we are already experts in it. I couldn't follow anything.
Because I used to read about yoga and its disciplines I didn't feel anything right there. And I was so much concerned about other students throughout the days who where very new to yoga.

I have been already suffering from some physical problems like Sinusitis, Constipation, Low digestion and weakness. But who cares about individuals and their problems!. Govindan thinks that everyone can do same amount of yoga and get enlightened. Thank god that I am at least alive now. May be I am the one of Govindan's students who have damaged his health by doing yoga(and not dead). I have reached a stage that I wont even able to sit straight in Siddhasana or able to stand straight.

Before going to learn kriya yoga I thought Bandas and Mudras are advanced practices that can be only taught to capable Sadhakas. But for Govindan they are just child's play.
Is marshall Govindan a guru or a criminal who destroy seekers. Don't you think this is a serious sin and a crime?.
So if you have lots of money and fed up of living life. Give it to him. He will give you 1st and 2nd level practices together. Do all of them together twice daily.
No more cheap suicide methods

[Shivoham]

I have been initiated to kriya yoga by the same group two years back. Based on my experience My opinion is that Marshall Govindan doesn't qualify as (my) Guru, not even as a teacher. What a sincere student expect from a guru is care and attention(why we need a guru otherwise? Books are better). A Guru must be careful about his students safety. But he doesn't. He simply shows some yoga lightning fast like we are already experts in it. I couldn't follow anything.
Because I used to read about yoga and its disciplines I didn't feel anything right there. And I was so much concerned about other students throughout the days who where very new to yoga.

I have been already suffering from some physical problems like Sinusitis, Constipation, Low digestion and weakness. But who cares about individuals and their problems!. Govindan thinks that everyone can do same amount of yoga and get enlightened. Thank god that I am at least alive now. May be I am the one of Govindan's students who have damaged his health by doing yoga(and not dead). I have reached a stage that I wont even able to sit straight in Siddhasana or able to stand straight.

Before going to learn kriya yoga I thought Bandas and Mudras are advanced practices that can be only taught to capable Sadhakas. But for Govindan they are just child's play.
Is marshall Govindan a guru or a criminal who destroy seekers. Don't you think this is a serious sin and a crime?.
So if you have lots of money and fed up of living life. Give it to him. He will give you 1st and 2nd level practices together. Do all of them together twice daily.
No more cheap suicide methods

Here is a reply by a friend in Kriya yoga community in orkut for this thread:

"when i learn something from some one i appreciate what he has given to me.

if i involve myself in finding faults & personality defects of those persons which are bound to be in anyone ....i feel that i am deviating from life's purpose ....everyone does mistakes & a Guru is not devoid of that too ....probably if he had not experienced those mistakes he would have not been to teach better ......now this also implies ....to what we learn from past lives ....if we belive that life here on earth is very part small of the souls journey ...also the fact the neither the body we live is our possession ...neither the soul that resides inside us .

so take whatever that makes U free & leave whatever makes u heavier"

[seagull8]

Because of so many unfair accusations made by Steven Maldekar (aka Rudra) I have decided to share my knowledge and experiences I have had over the years with my dear beloved teachers and friends –Marshall Govindan and Durga Ahlund.
First of all, I have known Marshall Govindan (aka Satchidananda) since 1992 and his wife Durga since 1996. I never had the impression that Marshall Govindan has ever, presented himself as a Guru. When asked, I have heard him say on numerous occasions that his role is just to be Babaji’s postman, delivering his Teachings. Govindan constantly emphasizes that the true “Guru” is not a person, but the Teachings. The Guru, he says, is a principle of nature, by which truth, beauty, love, goodness is revealed He also says that the Guru may manifest anytime through any experience that touches the soul with these qualities. When these soulful experiences are expressed consistently through a particular individual, we need to be careful not confuse that individual person with the “Guru.” The person is just an envelope, a vehicle. It is the teachings that are important.
I believe that Steve, “Rudra” may have confused a need for a personal relationship with Marshall Govindan with a need to know the Guru. If so, he needs to let go of his disappointment, and resentment, and realize that it is by doing the Kriya Yoga sadhana, and by studying the teachings of the BKY and the Siddhas and by changing his own thinking processes, that he may find what he is looking for.
One of the things I like about Govindan’s presentation of Kriya Yoga is that he, gives the training and the techniques, as well as continued support over the years without conditions, other than a commitment by the students to do the practices sincerely. Most Indian gurus require their students to slave away for years in their service, and then give very little in terms of teachings and techniques. Nor does Govindan ask his students to commit themselves solely to Kriya Yoga. Babaji’s Kriya Yoga, he says, is a big vehicle, that can accommodate and complement many teachings and methods.
Regarding the issue of money, if you visit the website where Marshall Govindan’s seminars and publications are described, on the page “Events and Schedule/First level initiation” it states:
“1. Initiation into Kriya Yoga is taught in an intensive weekend seminar. The suggested contributions will, however, cover the average cost involved…The suggested contribution is $300. At the Quebec Ashram this includes the cost of lodging and meals…”
And “6. Suggested contribution: initiations and other activities are given on a suggested contribution basis only. We never allow money to become a condition or obstacle to learning Babaji's Kriya Yoga. Where interested persons do not have money, it is given free.”
Where is the evidence that this policy regarding donations has not in fact been respected? If Steve considers where he took the initiation, it was probably only $250 for first or second level weekend training. That is a very modest amount for a full weekend course packed with material. The review sessions he had with other acharyas were free of financial obligation. So was the training he had in India. He has not considered the very real cost involved in Govindan’s and other acharya’s travel expenses, to India, Japan and Hawaii, where he received his training, and the cost of renting a center, publicity, among other things. I have personally seen many people over the years who only offered a donation, an amount that they could easily afford. I have also seen that many people have been given the training for free. Acharyas are always advised to give the training freely to all sincere aspirants. No one is ever turned away because they could not pay the suggested donation. All students receive a clear and concise training and are offered on going support over many years. No question or doubt goes unanswered, unless the questioner is not sincere and is just lodging complaints and not practicing.
Some people have taken all three initiations without paying anything, but do offer some seva, like some gardening at the ashram or some kitchen duty or some simple office tasks at the Ashram in Quebec. One man I know paid with a granite birdbath he had made. Shouldn’t there always be some exchange of energy? Also, the fees for all the trainings and that includes the Hatha Yoga Teacher Training vary according to a particular country. In India, the fee was about $100 for a 200-hour year long training. Sri Lankan students were given scholarships and even had their travel reimbursed, and they were given free lodging and meals. The amount of the suggested contribution is very low in poor countries, and reduced in East European Countries and in South America. The seminars are sometimes given without a suggested donation…these are sponsored by his organization, Babaji’s Kriya Yoga Order of Acharya. Furthermore, students are encouraged to repeat the first level seminars as often as they like, for free.
Govindan returns annually to most of the places where he has taught, to encourage and support his students. His site lists about 20 teachers who also teach and support students in over a dozen countries. He and Durga also offer a lot of support to students through a journal given for free after you take the 1st seminar, at least for a year or so…The Quebec Ashram offers regularly scheduled silent retreats and regional gatherings, and a 200-Hour Hatha Yoga Teacher Training, given at very reasonable rates. Kriya Yoga Publications has come out with amazing publications on Yoga, including the writings of the Siddhas.
All BKY publications were given to the Indian Ashram for distribution and reprinting, free of any fees or royalty. All the income from seminars and books in India stays in India to support the ashram and students there. The same support exists for the beautiful new ashram in Sri Lanka, which was rebuilt after the tsunami with the funds Satchidananda raised in a special fundraising effort.
.Babaji’s Kriya Yoga is affordable and available to anyone who seeks it out. Many of my friends have visited the BKY ashrams in Bangalore, India and Sri Lanka, and attest to regular classes that are offered there several times per week to the public. These classes are well attended, and are offered free of charge. They are advertised on the same website. These ashrams are doing wonderful work in publishing the books written by the scholars associated with the Yoga Siddha Research Project, which is sponsored by Babaji’s Kriya Yoga Order of Acharyas, founded and lead by Marshall Govindan.
The complain that Govindan and his wife, Durga do not respond to emails, it is not only false, but also silly and illogical. How could Rudra possibly know whether Marshall Govindan replies to anyone but himself? I correspond regularly with Durga and Govindan. They both receive an enormous amount of emails; consequently, at times, Govindan may not send me an immediate reply; however, both Govindan and Durga always respond within a day or two. If “Rudra” (Steve Mandelker) has a complaint that his emails were not answered, all he needs is to take it up as an issue with Govindan. I could actually imagine that Govindan might not give someone the answer he was looking for. He might even stop responding to a student who won’t listen to his advice or suggestion. I have witnessed that Govindan has little patience for laziness or incessant questioning.
If Steve’s evident anger and resentment is due to disappointment in the response that Marshall Govindan and Durga Ahlund and other acharyas that I know of made to him regarding his desire to continue his immoral pastimes in Bangkok, where he resides, he needs to understand that whatever they said, it was in the context of Babaji’s Kriya Yoga. They are teachers, not therapists, and not friends. As teachers, they need to draw a line in their relationship with students if they are to respect the ethical code of Yoga teachers, and to continue to empower students to make their own choices. His friends or his therapist might condone such immoral activities. But they have told him that when he does so, he opens himself to a big current of negative energy. I understand that after hearing this, he stopped communicating with them, and started his one-man campaign of slander under various pseudonyms and on various slander sites.
As a general rule, acharyas do not attempt to answer questions which are unrelated to the practice of Kriya Yoga. They do not attempt to tell students what to do in their personal affairs. But if someone has doubts about the practices, and they express these doubts in the form of polite questions, they will receive helpful, detailed replies as to the practice of the techniques and how they will help one to resolve their issues.
As for the alleged lack of response from persons listed on his website, I know many of them, and to my knowledge, there is no one listed there who will not respond, and does not continue to sincerely practice Babaji’s Kriya Yoga. If someone did not get a response, it may be that your insulting questions did not merit a response. The website is updated regularly, and it impressively reveals the engagement of a large number of sincere volunteers.
But why criticize Marshall Govindan because students evolve and move on? As with any tool, technique or skill which is learned, most persons move onto other things. Relatively few persons continue to practice it or use the tool every day. Even teachers who have practiced it for many years move onto other disciplines, become independent, or have to stop teaching for reasons of health, family, finances, or careers. To label Marshall Govindan as a “fraud” is ridiculous. Steven received every thing anyone could expect to receive and much more: careful training in the wonderful techniques of Babaji’s Kriya Yoga, in 3 great seminars, detailed replies to your numerous questions, most of which were unrelated to the techniques taught in the seminars, free review seminars, and much personal encouragement from several Kriya Yoga acharyas in California and Hawaii, as well as from Durga and Satchidananda.
If someone purchased a set of woodworking tools or attended a series of classes in oil painting, or any other seminar where one is taught techniques which require practice and skill in order to realize their potential benefits, but then refused to practice them, one cannot blame the tools or techniques as being ineffective, as you have done, much less the teacher!.
It would be very unlikely that one would injure oneself practicing the 18 postures taught in his or Durga’s classes, or as presented in their books and DVD. This is not a competitive Yoga. The goal is deepest relaxation and increased vitality and physical wellness. Every pose is taught in stages, with relaxation after each posture. Furthermore, in my experience, any posture can cause injury to someone who is out of shape or who has had an earlier injury if he pushes too hard, and is not in tune with his body.
The Grace Course, the correspondence course is wonderful. I have taken both years and many of my friends also have taken it and have been inspired by it. I found that the course magically addressed precisely what I was going through in that particular day or month. It is a course in self study and might get under someone’s skin if he was not willing to work on himself. To attack the course or the one who developed it, is an immature response.
Steve complained that Marshall Govindan did not give adequate individual attention to students during an initiation seminar. He failed to mention that this was an exceptional situation, a free seminar in Bangalore, where more than 100 persons attended, and that the typical class seminar size is on the average only 15 persons. Nor did he mention that when he received his initial trainings the classes were even smaller.
I have never heard anyone express anything but the highest praise for Durga. She is an excellent teacher of Yoga. I love her books – her teaching and writings.. She also walks her talk, and is an example and inspiration for all who know her. Steve may have met her, but I can’t imagine that he knows her at all.
I have never seen any evidence that Marshall Govindan promotes “miracles” or raises false expectations among his students. This is just another false statement. He has a remarkable ability to clearly communicate the essence of Self realization, without jargon. He uplifts and inspires us. But he always says our process and growth is up to us. It is always a matter of doing the work.
Govindan’s biography “How I became a disciple” clearly indicates why he left the organization of his teacher, the late Yogi Ramaiah. There is no evidence whatsoever that he has modified the techniques that he was taught. I have seen that these have been published on the internet by a student of Yogi Ramaiah. His presentation of these is consistent with what appears there. If anything, he has presented them much more clearly. He has also certainly made them very accessible to anyone who wishes to learn them. He removed them from the narrow, Indian cultural context which Yogi Ramaiah kept them from most aspirants, and made them accessible to all sincere seekers.
Steven has complained that Yogi Ramaiah treated him unfairly. The biography of Yogi Ramaiah which he has written in an article on his website, may help Steven to understand why Yogi Ramaiah acted towards him as he did. Yogi Ramaiah’s preferred relationship with students was to work on “crushing their egos” by creating situations wherein the student would feel uncomfortable, and either have to quit the relationship, or “let go” of their own egoistic reactions. That is the method of the “crazy-wise adepts” described in Georg Feuerstein’s book, "Holy Madness.” Other controversial teachers including Georg’s teacher the late Bubba Free John (a.k.a. “Adi Da), and Gurdjieff, used this method. Very few students, and especially very few Westerners, are prepared to work with a teacher who does that. It is too difficult.
Furthermore, everything that Marshall Govindan has evidentially done for the past 40 years related to the practice and teaching of Babaji’s Kriya Yoga demonstrates not only his belief in it, his love and devotion to his Guru Babaji, but the guidance, grace and support which Babaji has showered upon him. Steven’s claim that Marshall Govindan does not even believe in Babaji is simply absurd, and without any basis.
I have admired Marshall Govindan’s ability to answer questions in a very helpful and patient manner. However, he also emphasizes the fact that the truth cannot be realized merely by intellectual gymnastics, and that if one does practice quieting or silencing the mind, then there is no use in simply asking questions endlessly, because the teachers and the answers always reside within each one of us. All we need to do is ask and listen. I suspect that Steve "Rudra" avoided doing the practices, and that he allowed his intellect to get carried away with itself. I have often heard Govindan say to others that many questions can only be answered by going deep within.
Even though Steve chooses to take the alias “Rudra,” is an obvious attempt to confuse students. He has some axe to grind against Marshall Govindan and Durga, but it is not because of what he accuses them of in his posts. His allegations are completely at odds to what I know as a fact about both of these modest people, who have the deepest love and respect for the heritage of Yoga. All they seem to want to do is to empower others with an understanding of the force and transformational potential of Yoga.
I suggest that Steve go back to the BKY website www.babajiskriyayoga.net and the new website www.tirumandiram.net and read and study the amazing new publications of the writings of the Tamil Siddhas, which this couple have made available. On January 17, 2010, in Chennai India, at the gala release of their latest publication, the monumental work, the “Tirumandiram,” in front of an audience of more than 1,000 persons, they were praised by a dozen dignitaries, leading spiritual luminaries, scholars and heads of the government. Professor Georg Feuerstein also recently reviewed this work and wrote:
“Yoga-loving English speakers and the academic community owe an enormous gratitude to Marshall Govindan (Satchitananda) for initiating and sustaining this mammoth project, to his wife Durga Ahlund Govindan for her unstinting editorial and other support, and to Prof. T. N. Ganapathy and his team of translators and editors for successfully completing a truly monumental undertaking. One can only hope that the release of this complete rendering of the Tiru-Mandiram will end the relative neglect of the Tamil spiritual literature at the hands of Western scholars. The immense value of a careful study of this literature is overwhelmingly clear from the present work.” By the way, their publication of this new edition of the greatest of the Siddhas works, Tirumandiram is a legacy in itself.


Finally, I would like to add that Babaji’s Kriya Yoga techniques have had a great impact in my life. My life is now a continuing event of miracles, as I have learned to detach and surrender to the flow of His Divine Grace and Light.

One of His gifts that I have come to understand is the one of “free will.” That every moment gives me the opportunity to choose either love or fear.

When I choose Fear, My ego takes over and it leads me to take the “Victim role,” which includes blame, resentment, judgment and suffering. When I am in this unconscious sate, I refuse to take responsibility for my actions because it is much easier to blame someone else for my misery. This creates a hell of a life.

When I choose Love: I remember that I am God’s (Spirit’s) Divine creation. When I become conscious or awakened to this state, I take the role of “Spiritual Warrior,” which includes taking responsibility for my actions, and co-creating my life aligned with His Divine Light.

Babaji said that through the practice of these techniques we are able to experience Heaven right here on earth, because through our spiritual transformation we become aware of the choices we have and we begin to let go of our false self (ego/Fear) and start to integrate our True Self (God/Love)

I know that Babaji’s Kriya Yoga techniques are the daily tools I plan to use till the day I die to support my spiritual transformation. My Sadhana continues to be a light in my path. It reminds me to be aware that my life is the result of my choices and attitude that I take in every step and moment. Also my daily practice allows me to remember that I am a spiritual being having a human experience.

The Siddhas said that our happiness is proportional to one’s discipline. When I become disciplined in my practice, I remember that I am a piece of God’s creation. This process creates a feeling in my heart of peace, joy, love and connectedness, and I am able to detach from life’s drama and suffering and continue to trust and surrender to His Divine flow of Grace

I have come to realize that if I want my day to be full of joy, love and miracles, I need to spend some time each morning with God, and then I remember to remember.

I believe that our planet is like a big University, and we are constantly being put to test to either act or react to each other’s interactions; inasmuch as we are constantly exchanging the roles of teachers and students with one another. The only way to pass the test is when we act from a feeling of love, compassion, and understanding.

I have also come to realize that nobody can make me happy or unhappy, it is all based on my perception and choices I make that can create the feeling of connectedness (love) or of separation (ego). I have become aware that there is no way to happiness, happiness is the way.

I remember to remember that at every moment of my life I can either be the Host to God or the Hostage to the ego, it is all up to the choices I make.

Namaste

[orthodox]

Here I thought you guys were all working telephones with fake texas accents.

[Shivoham]

seagull8, You are lucky that you haven't damaged yourself

[Eckumbarum]

Interesting thread...I first met "Govindan" in 1978 in Richville, NY while I was in college at St. Lawrence University. I took to IBKY right off the bat and was initiated not too long after those 1st classes in Richville. Martin Fletcher was also one of the sadhacks at the ashram in Richville. Govindan, for sure, had an alluring "spiritual" personality. He wasnt really the impetus behind my fervor, I was really taken by the chanting, mantras, belief systems etc. It was a real "high". From pretty much that time until 1986 I was living in the ashram, moved to Yuma, lived with Yogiar for a fair portion of the year, as that was the IBKA headquarters. I lived in Yuma when the temples were built. I traveled with Yogiar to India and other places. It was a cool lifestyle thinking back on it. Wild in a certain ascetic way. India was a trip. The Maha Kumbha Mela! Haridwar and all that good stuff. Saw where The Beatles hung out. Took a trip up the Himalayas to worship in the big time temples. Lots of stuff that few Americans have ever experienced.

Any regrets? None. Am I going to bash Govindan for his short comings? No. What I have learned since then is that life is not as we think or may believe it to be. Truth is not easy to come by. Freedom is how we can evaluate what is true. Are we free? Bondage is not truth. Freedom is truth. I believe that when we know the truth we are free, and when we are free we know the truth. I believe that humans are motivated toward those beliefs and ways of living that set them free. Look at your life. Are you free?

[Jeevajyoti]

The Marshall Govindan Satchidananda Babaji Blessing

"Babaji's Kriya Yoga" (babajiskriyayoga.net) is now taught by Satchidananda and around 24 of Babajis Acharyas/teachers around the world. It is a very inexpensive three-part series of classes on Kriya Yoga including Hatha Yoga Asanas or postures, pranayama or breathing techniques, dhyanam or meditationtechniques, Mantra initiations, philosophy of the ancient vedic and Siddha tradition and much more.

No claims are being made neither by Satchidananda aka Marshall Govindan nor by any of the Acharyas to be teaching students about 'miracles' or that anyone can attain 'miraculous powers' or anything of that sort.
I have personally attended 8 initiations and have never even heard the word 'miracle' mentioned.

The teachings are given in a very down-to-earth atmosphere and are open for all everywhere. As a westerner living in India I attended both the 1., 2. and 3rd Initiations in India (Bangalore) itself at indian prices, meaning the equivalent of 45-50 US dollars for a weekend course: Friday 18.00-21.00 and Saturday/Sunday 8.00-18.00 inclusive of lunch and tea - and 50-55 US dollars for the 3rd initiation over 10 days (apart from accom. and meals paid separately to the independent organizers).
Noone ever told me that I as a westerner ought to take the initiations in the west.

My feeling about the organization of Babajis Kriya Yoga is very positive indeed. It is clear to me that Satchidananda due to his yogic accomplishments and vast knowledge easily could set himself up as a Guru, but he have chosen instead to remain honest and humble in an attitude of discipleship to his Guru, Kriya Babaji - I have met several of the Acharyas or teachers of Kriya Yoga and my main impression have been again very positive: they all come across as ordinary people who are sincere in their practice of Kriya Yoga and in their enthusiasm for sharing the wonderful tools of these ancient methods and traditions with everyone who has a genuine interest.

Since my first course in November 2009 in Bangalore I have had a few questions or doubts about the practice and the effects of my sadhana and these questions I addressed to Durga - who is married to Satchidananda - and herself an extremely competent Hatha Yoga expert with more than 30 years of teaching experience - and a devout practitioner of Kriya Yoga; she responded at length and very helpfully on both occasions. Naturally I don't expect neither Durga nor Satchidananda to be able to respond to more than a few questions now and then - from me personally - as they both have hundreds, if not thousands of students - therefore I have tried to limit my questions to only serious and truly neceassary ones.

I hereby wish to personally recommend both the organization of 'Babaji's Kriya Yoga' and the high integrity of its founders Marshall Govindan and Durga.

Thank you for having provided this forum for our free expression of information about different cults or organizations!

Jeevajyoti

[Srivasu]

Hello Rudra –

I knew Satchidanada at the same time you did, and it is interesting how two people could draw such different conclusions from the same experiences. To tell the truth, I did not read every word of what you had to say, as the general tone of it makes the details superfluous.

Babaji’s Kriya Yoga is so simple, almost absurdly simple, that I really saw no need to ask questions about it. It is simple and it works. All one has to do is practice it. That is it.

One glimpse of Samadhi, which is readily attained by a practitioner of Babaji’s Kriya Yoga, and you would see that words are meaningless, intellectual debate is meaningless, “meaning” is meaningless. Just be still and know God.

Warmest Regards – Srivasu Yogi

[dodge]

Hi Srivasu. If words, intellectual debate, and meaning itself are all meaningless…why bother saying anything here? What’s the point? You say that Kriya Yoga is simple and it works, and imply that you attained “Samadhi” through its practice. Do you believe this makes you special and that because of it you know things that others don’t; and are you Don Eric Wagner of Davenport, Iowa?

[Srivasu]

Hello Dodge - It is great to hear from you.

Yes, Yes, Yes, No and Yes.

The only difference between a wise man and a fool is that the wise man keeps his mouth shut.

Warmest regards - Srivasu Yogi

[dodge]

I disagree, Srivasu. Just because someone “keeps his mouth shut” it doesn’t make him wise; and just because someone has a lot to say it doesn’t make him a fool. Besides, if, as you say, a “wise man keeps his mouth shut,” what good is his assumed “wisdom?” What does a “wise man” do, sit there silently basking in his “wisdom?” You appear to believe that you possess some “wisdom.” What do you do with it?

[Srivasu]

Hello dodge - It is always a pleasure to hear from you.

"Be still, and know that I am God" (Psalm 46:10)

You ask many questions. Judge things for yourself. And yes, shut up about it. You might see a big difference.

Warmest Regards - Srivasu Yogi

Warmest regards - Srivasu Yogi

[dodge]

What you appear to be saying, Srivasu, is “shut up and don’t ask questions.” Is that what you’ve learned from practicing yoga?