Finally, A Rational Discussion about Shepherd's Chapel!

[Kestrel]

Mmmmmm...I wonder who's sending private messages to Kestrel?

Dodge,

IMAO, a prime example of what (I find) is commenting that falls somewhere between superficial to sarcastic. Furthermore, any intention towards some clarification is obviously lacking. I'll be gracious and call it a most obvious rhetorical comment. Obvious for both it's intent, and answer. Your lack to respectably state your above point, but rather resort towards the use of innuendo, is diminutive. I graciously decline to participate in this race to the bottom for a quasi intellectual conversation, in case I have not made this quite apparent when I cast my vote to log on, or not. I'm just a single user, so what? That being true enough, I believe you understand where this can easily head.

Personally Dodge, if your going to be confrontational, then why not just take the front door like a good bear? The respect factor one gains is worth their having to take the hat off to wax in a civil fashion. For example, I shall paraphrase your above comment to properly include it's true spirit of intent: "I know Smyrna sent Kestrel some pms regarding recent changes made on the forum. I can't contain my curiosity about this matter!" You have the option to deny this, but you have initiated a conclusion by posting your speculation to begin with, even if your's truly has not been directly inquired thereof.

Again, I don't have the time nor desire to tap dance around nebulous issues that have no real bearing on my orbit. Only we the members can do a better job of moderating our behavior; even if not all of us have the added luxury of also being an admin- in which case this can easily become moot. That's a real possibility, and who wants to consider all the hours of their lives wasted by banging away on posts that technically belong to someone else? Especially when the objectivity of the forum's administration becomes tenuous? We ALL get back exactly what we put in. If we put garbage in then garbage shall be the output. (Note however, that many times one man's garbage is another man's treasure.) Speaking of garbage:

I'v noticed a few sea gulls flying around here. Has a municipal dump been installed someplace close by? The odors seem to be wafting over our neighborhood.

I have provided my own example of sarcasm to illustrate it's use. Note closely how it is actually closer to satire: for it is actually an instructional aid for those who may not wish to consider these finer points without the visuals. It's OK to include the LCD in the discussion- so long as it remains subordinate to the equation's sum (mission of FN). Teaching moments occur every step of the way. In the spirit that our world will be a minutely better place, this post will now be submitted. I find this more challenging than unsolicited interference with conversations, and more gratifying in the end......

[dodge]

Hi Kestrel -- There’s no need for us to be antagonistic towards one another. For anything that I’ve said that offended you, I apologize. You started this thread almost seven months ago, and said that your goal was to “keep this clean and above board,” and to “keep our self respect in all discussions…to check our bad attitudes at the door.”

So let’s start anew, put our personal problems with one another on hold and have an intelligent exchange of ideas free of animosity. OK? What is it that you’d like to talk about? It seems to me that the subject of Arnold Murray/Shepherds Chapel has been exhausted; but perhaps you have a point of view, an opinion, or some information that you’d like to share or discuss. Or something totally unrelated. Anything other than continual enmity.

The ball is in your court.

[Kestrel]

Hi Kestrel -- There’s no need for us to be antagonistic towards one another. For anything that I’ve said that offended you, I apologize. You started this thread almost seven months ago, and said that your goal was to “keep this clean and above board,” and to “keep our self respect in all discussions…to check our bad attitudes at the door.”

So let’s start anew, put our personal problems with one another on hold and have an intelligent exchange of ideas free of animosity. OK? What is it that you’d like to talk about? It seems to me that the subject of Arnold Murray/Shepherds Chapel has been exhausted; but perhaps you have a point of view, an opinion, or some information that you’d like to share or discuss. Or something totally unrelated. Anything other than continual enmity.

The ball is in your court.

---

Dodge,

Let us be in agreement on this point: All the diatribe has been exhausted.

Now, to continue further would require a serious detraction. You should recall the dynamics of this forum in order to facilitate the process. SC students did not come here to prostelatize, but defend. Therefore, the onus rests upon the "serious" detractors to keep the pot stirred until THEY run out of options.

I for one will keep my wits about me and focused on the purpose for this thread. To offer a counterpoint when possible. If you wish to advance your understanding of The Chapel, may I suggest you tune in and do your own studying.

I'm trying to admire your penchant for spin. It appears to be more of a liability than an asset for someone seeking real knowledge of the issues. With all due respect, your last post did absolutely nothing for me except reiterate and insincere tone, and reminds me of the wolf in sheep's clothing.

I'll hang around until the next rain storm shows who has the whitewashed fences. I'm the guy who's going to sell you on how fun it is paint the pickets, one by one.

Call it pride of ownership.

Kestrel
(now aka: The Sentinel )

[stage director]

SC students did not come here to prostelatize, but defend. Therefore, the onus rests upon the "serious" detractors to keep the pot stirred until THEY run out of options.

Is that in the rulebook? ;-)

[sgng123]

Uhh... YE-AH. Just as much as not wearing black shoes with blue pants or being the first to arrive at a party.

[Kestrel]

Uhh... YE-AH. Just as much as not wearing black shoes with blue pants or being the first to arrive at a party.

Salutations SGNG,

Excellent examples. The committing of such faux pas shows certainly betrays one's class.

But the obvious must be visited from time to time.

[dodge]

Hi Kestrel. You wrote that the “diatribe” concerning Shepherds Chapel/Arnold Murray has been exhausted; and that all that’s left is for you, as a student of SC/AM, to defend against detraction. I haven’t seen any lately.

You came back after a three and a half month absence, bumped a thread that’s been dead for two and a half months, announced that you were about to “rush onto the battlefield,” that you were getting private messages from Smyrna, and then complained about the moderation.

What happened, did Smyrna send you a summons to take his place as the interim detractor stomper? Is he whispering into your ear and giving you advice? Makes you his virtual sock puppet, doesn’t it?

[shadowcat]

Should I report this comment to the new moderator or are you still the moderator dodge? I see you have adopted one of franklin's favorite terms, surely you can be more creative than this being that you are more intelligent than 95% of our population.

Hi kestrel nice to see you. Check your inbox I sent you a message.

[Kestrel]

Hi Kestrel. You wrote that the “diatribe” concerning Shepherds Chapel/Arnold Murray has been exhausted; and that all that’s left is for you, as a student of SC/AM, to defend against detraction. I haven’t seen any lately.

You came back after a three and a half month absence, bumped a thread that’s been dead for two and a half months, announced that you were about to “rush onto the battlefield,” that you were getting private messages from Smyrna, and then complained about the moderation.

What happened, did Smyrna send you a summons to take his place as the interim detractor stomper? Is he whispering into your ear and giving you advice? Makes you his virtual sock puppet, doesn’t it?

---

Dodge,

Due to your self imposed state of separation from the super set of the bourgeoisie, there's this little social convention that may have slipped your awareness called "consensus". It's when 2 or more people agree on a common point. FYI- It requires a partner other than oneself (there's more than one word for that).

To show grace under pressure, you may address me using "VSP" in place of "virtual sock puppet". This will economize on "Le Diatribe' ". There may be an abject, denial issue here by someone- sure hope it's not me. Otherwise, I would have to conclude that there is a concerted intent to provoke.

To end, we're full up on conundrums these days- just received a huge shipment, still in boxes (and) if someone is whispering in your ear, then dollars to donuts it's the devil. There IS a relationship here.

Speaking of conundrums, I forgot this is all wasted.

Expletive, expletive, expletive....

[Kestrel]

Should I report this comment to the new moderator or are you still the moderator dodge? I see you have adopted one of franklin's favorite terms, surely you can be more creative than this being that you are more intelligent than 95% of our population.

Hi kestrel nice to see you. Check your inbox I sent you a message.

Greeting returned Shadowcat,

I don't get out of the house much these days! Seriously, it's been an epidemic in my world these days, and a major distraction is what the doctor had ordered for me. What better place to get medicated than FN. LOLOLOL!!

How's that Inverness Wilderness treating you folks up there this season? We have had a record 130 year dry one. Not even a couple inches of snow here. It's been surreal.

I'll check for that message. Is it possible you have a lead to where Smyrna is? I'm sure it's here on the forum, but getting back up to speed is a challenge with my inability to stay focused on the task.

BTW, I saw your posts on the atheist thread afterwards. Really good work there!

Soon.....

[shadowcat]

Yes I just saw your posts on the atheist thread too, so if you see anything in the message about that thread please note that I had not been over there yet before I wrote that message. And ditto, nice work on your part as well!

Yes I do have that lead to where smyrna is, I myself will be going over there very soon! I've been so busy.

Ahhh Inverness, such a quaint little town. I do not get up there much, I was there for a bit back in the mid 80's though. Our weather is unusually hot, it is a bit early for it to be so warm. Our winter was non existant. This all is a sign that we have a very long hot summer coming.

[Kestrel]

I see you have adopted one of franklin's favorite terms, surely you can be more creative than this being that you are more intelligent than 95% of our population.

In many of the higher echelons of academia, a 95%er is simply considered "good", and in no way "gifted". That occurs around an IQ of perhaps 150, give or take a few brain cells. I'm totally unqualified in this area, as should be concluded from my writings.

So Shadowcat, should we cut some slack here?

Uhm, ya, right did I here the reply!

[shadowcat]

Dang, I better get on the ball! I have 16 more points before I am gifted again. lol

dodge thinks that atheists are more intelligent than those that believe in God, so roughly that means he is more intelligent than about 95% of the population.

[Kestrel]

BIG UPS TO SHADOWCAT AND SAM!

(Whatever your flavor of religion is this week.)

You have made my day.

Message received!

[shadowcat]

Thanks! And glad to hear I made your day. Don't be a stranger here on fn.

[dodge]

Hi Kestrel. I’m not all that intelligent, so you’re going to have to explain what you mean by saying I’m in a “self-imposed state of separation from the super set of the bourgeoisie.” I guess that’s way over my head; so if you use simpler language to let me know what it is you’re saying I would appreciate it.

Hey, I’m not a "detractor." I have no interest in Shepherds Chapel. If you want to believe in the biblical mythology as interpreted by those who believe that a shape-shifting supernatural being turned into a human in order to have sex with both Adam and Eve (both of them ate of the “forbidden fruit,” which I believe you ShepChaps think of as referring to sex), then that’s you’re right. If you want to believe that you’re one of the elect who sided with God in a “previous age” (whatever that is) in a fight against a mythical evil supernatural entity that you call Satan, then go ahead. If, for some reason, you want to believe that those who don’t share your religious beliefs will have their souls tossed into a Lake of Fire to be destroyed utterly while you and your fellow cult members are going to be given new bodies and live forever on an ideal version of Earth, go for it.

I don’t share your beliefs; and in all frankness I think they’re absurd. But that’s only my opinion. Why would you even care? If you’re here to defend your beliefs, then proceed. So far, all I’ve seen coming from you is some odd need to confront me personally and criticize the moderation and administration of FACTnet forum. Is that your self-appointed task here? I know who the devil is that's whispering into your ear.

[Kestrel]

For those following the hydrolic fracking that oil companys employ, and the mounting evidence of earthquakes being created from the activity, I have come up with a theory.

Could it be possible that the prophesies concerning earthquakes in the end times have predicted that us humans would become so careless about the planet, that we would actually lube up the tectonic plates with WD-40 in an effort to extract fossil farts?

The fracking process is generating mainly hundreds of localized micro-tremors, there's been a 5.1 and 5.2 earthquake around some sites. Hundreds of these micro tremors could aggregate into larger and larger tremors. The equilibrium of the very crust itself could become compromised as a result of all this. Evidence is mounting that, if allowed to continue, a possible domino effect of earthquakes could result. Maybe not too outlandish. Imagine, a cascade of massive earthquakes.

Don't hold me too close to this conjecture, nor look for online resources to document much of what has been said, but those huge hailstones might seem insignificant by that time.

Prophecies further predict that, like labor pains, events that occur closer and closer together, with an increasingly greater magnitude. The planet might actually have something to say about all this, let alone Father.

Give me a five yard penalty for "abuse of forum" due to whimsical content. It's worth taking the hit before I carry the ball to our next goal-post.

[Kestrel]

To Dodge,
My first instinct is make this post as indignant and harsh as socially acceptable. Information has been made available about recent, dubious ongoing with respect to the moderator's position on our forum.

You recently acussed me of "bumping" this thread after having been absent for 105 days. And now take a good look in the mirror- JOSH125. Do you not know that when you were owner of that handle the posts "reeked" of a partronizing tone, and my gut sent red flags anytime I engaged with you? Like it or not Dodge, I am an EXCELLENT judge of character and your performance was not only unimpressive, but unfortunately for FN, also damaging. It left a very acrid taste due to the fishing hook that was trying to be set in my mouth like some land tuna.

A huge FYI- check out what happened to those who claimed to do work in Christ's name in the NT (start in Matthew). Atheist or not, I dare say the label of "hypocrite" is applicable on earth, even if Heaven is of no concern to you (yet). It explains so much about those posts. Not everyone who claims to be a Christian IS. You have committed something more than you might have suspected at the time.

It is unfortunate that a judgement of character error appears to have been made by whomever is ultimately responsible for this cyber-sandbox. In other words Dodge, there must be a type of buyers remorse by an otherwise discreet individual who has invested much. It happens to us all, and only tough medicine cures that ailment. I do this for everyone on FN whether you own it or just lease it.

Whoever is moderating at this time, I'm going to mention a member's name (again). The last time this name was mentioned in a post- it was deleted. If it happens again this will be my last post guaranteed. Now I KNOW why it was deleted, and I'm P>O>D about the politics; and I left FN 105 Days after the incident,not having any of the sordid details. Wrong is just wrong, I don't care who validates it: I made a heart felt comment at the time that the forum was becoming unbalanced and biased.

On cue JOSH125, in his insincere, touchy, feely fashion challenged why. I intended to respond but I found a fairly emotional situation had landed, and dodged the issue(s) altogether. Some things just aren't worth it. But now thanks to a former member I WILL tell some of my story here......

There is one group of individuals whom I will defend tooth and nail EVERYTIME!!!!!!!!
They are the handicapped, or challenged as some like to refer out of discomfort. I have stated from time to time that I'm a 24/7 caregiver to a sister who was born almost 50 years ago with CP. She has been a huge challenge to our family of every one of those years, especially after our mother passed on 17 months ago leaving me to take care of her. My sister is one of the most precious souls anyone can ever want to meet, however: being that she is mentally retarded, her social filter is nonexistent and the family must be really careful around her sometimes.

She is very unpredictable about what, and how she says things. Even though she is incapable of an outright lie, she is also oblivious to judgement. As a result, everyday is an emotional rollercoaster for her, and whoever is around. She is ALWAYS in a protected environment and is NEVER allowed to be in a public situation EXCEPT with a state qualified person, or family. She is NEVER put in a position to fail.

Dodge/Josh, I'm answering that question you asked about the fairness and balance comment I made back in Dec., just like I originally intended. It requires that I bring up Chad14, like it or not. As per my understanding there is an issue with him that "challenges" him to behave in a coherent manner. His actions are insulated and condonded under the guise of "special" needs by the "admin".

Well, I have news for anyone who thinks it proper to allow someone in Chad14's positions to be exposed en mass without any protection for himself, not to mention the public. Seriously, there must by some rigid policy about this because it sounds like a huge liability waiting to occur. Handicapped individuals ARE special, and require special handling.

Furthermore, I'm not so sure about the extent of Chad's challenges and feel that POLITICS were the key imputes for YOUR behaviour Dodge. I'm not sure what's more disgusting: you're making a mockery of my religion, or a mockery of individuals who are incapable of properly defending themselves. It sounds like a lose, lose proposition from this end, and hence this little slice of indignation.

This post is not a moral crusade of mine, but a fact of life. This forum is cute and all, but when sensitive issues are treated like cannon fodder for battle, then don't be surprised when it misfires right back in the face of the one whom lit the fuse. I can really go on about this but the more I write, the more agitated I'm becoming.

Whatever the truth about what happened back there, the substantiated details I have discovered lead me to believe that there is nothing but a hornets nest of problems that got stirred up during our "temporary lapse of reason".

I better submit this before I say something that may not be expedient. I reserve the right to append to this post after my tail feathers de-ruffle and clarity is restored.

I A$$-U-Me-d this collective effort was about the fighting against misinformation, not the propagating of it.

KESTREL

[dodge]

What are you talking about, Kestrel? All those words and you never got to the point. What did I say about Chad14 that upset you so much? Quote me, point to a particular post and then we can discuss it.

[shadowcat]

Kestrel,

This post may very well get me banned but I really feel that I should be honest and upfront and state my opinion. If this honesty gets me in trouble then it will only accentuate all the more of any bias. When I first began posting here on fn I was warned that I would be bannned for calling franklin by his old username here on fn, which is very strange imho. This was capt furillo that warned me, before they appointed dodge as the new moderator Josh125. I can't fathom that a poster could be banned for calling someone by their old username on the forum especially considering that I have been accused by franklin numerous times that I am smyrna, a man named Ken Mitchell that has a website about SC and lives in Louisianna. Smyrna has been accused of being Ken Mitchell several times by franklin and other posters here on fn.

I was also warned a few months ago that I would be banned just for making a joke about Josh125 being dodge, I was also sent a message that it undermines Josh125's authority. Yet dodge has since admitted that he was Josh125 on smyrna's blog.

Smyrna was banned for something he did not even do on fn. He left fn on his own because he felt there was an incredible amount of bias and he too knew that Josh125 was dodge. He created his blog in order to have the freedom of speech to convey his opinions concerning the issue. I agree that bias was occurring here on fn when Josh125 /dodge took over as moderator and declaring that he was a Methodist minister, which I did not believe from the very beginning. The posting style of Josh125 was exactly like dodge's posting style, only dodge posted in this style. Again dodge has admitted now that he was Josh125, therefore he deceptively lead the forum members to believe he was a Methodist minister and the admin on fn deceptively told the forum members that dodge was not going to moderate the forum that they picked someonw else.

Now we have a new moderator. I get the feeling that I know who the current moderator is but I will not mention this here on fn. I will leave it alone but I will say this, dodge stated that the new moderator is someone that has posted on fn for a few years and became bored and is no longer posting here. I do not believe this though, I feel that this person will probably do more than work behind the scenes. Although I feel that they will not be posting too much concerning the SC argument anymore. dodge stated that he has known this person for a long time, he also stated that smyrna would know this person. You can pretty much make the conclusion that there may very well be bias occurring again because I find it impossible to imagine a moderator on either side of the SC argument to not be bias because of their previous history of posting here. But then again, I may be totally wrong. Let us hope that I am, but time will tell.

I find the irony amazing though. You brought up the town of Inverness that I lived in for a brief time years ago, and am still living nearby. Apparently someone here on fn complained that it was their home town and the new Josh moderator has asked me if I know anything about this. I found it rather strange question because even if I did know about this, what does it have to do with me living in Inverness years ago and what was said? If truth be told it is a tiny little town that I hated when I lived there. I won't go into the details as to why but I tend to not like little tiny towns because of the mentality of those that live in them. Sorry that's just my honest opinion. There was a tremendous amount of bias and judgemental behavior that occurred when I lived there. lol There are other small towns that I had to endure that were the same way. Too many folks that are prejudice against noobie residents I guess and feel they need to get into everyone's business. I'm a very private person in my non cyber life, my real life that is. I do not engage in town gossip and what not. I stick to myself pretty much and I detest nosey neighbors.

At the same time, dodge recently made statements on smyrna's blog calling smyrna by a real name and pointing out that he works for "such and such" a company. Given the information that he posted, there is only one source that he could have gotten this from, and if it is who I think it is this makes the entire situation all the more hypocrtical and bizzare. Bizzare because it seems to be one side can do these things, either accusing a poster of being someone else or calling them out by what they think their real name is, but on the flip side if I call someone by their old username I get a warning from the admin and franklin flips out saying I called him by his real name and I am guilty of libel.

At the same time franklin has also done this to smyrna, sam and me numerous times as I mentioned above. Making accusations that all 3 of us are someone by the name of Ken Mitchell who has some website about SC and a poster named Joken that I have never even heard of that got banned on either cb or cbrc I guess. Of course franklin has also accused sam and I of being smyrna several times and vise versa. And now dodge has aquired some "false" information about smyrna from a poster that doesn't post here very much anymore and seems to have gotten bored.....

It is almost some sort of strange game. The bias that I saw coming from dodge when he moderated was the fact that he was still posting and attacking the posters beliefs, making fun of their beliefs and holidays and has used vulgarity in the past by posting a video titled "F___ Christmas" , but at the same time as a moderator banning others for what he deemed the same exact things. When I brought up the things franklin has done in the past, posting a pic of medusa with my name on it I was told that he could not do anything about this and to stick with the here and now. I was not asking that he do anything about it, I was mentioning it because I noticed that a lot of stuff was being brought up about what some posters have done and said in the past and it appeared they were being judged by these things now and these things were being used as a basis to go by on whether or not a poster should be banned and for how long. In other words, "I feel that you have long been a rude poster calling people this and that, so because of this and what you just currently did I am banning you for such and such a time". Yet the things other posters have done in the past did not seem to matter much. Just an observation, that's all.

I was also told in a private message by Josh125/dodge that he was tired of my crap and if I had a problem with him report it to the admin. I still have this message. And I was being told to wipe the slate clean of what folks have done in the past and just worry about the here and now.

So in conclusion the bias was based on those that dodge has had a good relationship with over the years verses the posters he has had issues with in the past and what he has done here on fn in the past. I noticed stage got away with quite a bit of name calling and snide comments toward me. Is this because she and doge have been friends for years and have had a good relationship?

Then there is sam, who has been banned for name calling, even though the ones he was answering had done the same thing. They insinuated he was a satanist, a practioner of black magic, and a dozen other things while he was banned. They attacked his taste in music, creating an entire thread about black metal which sam hardly even listens to just to lure him over to argue. Although the thread was deleted this person only got a warning. They accused me and sam of witchcraft, satanic blah blah. So what if I am a witch, I guess it depends on one's definition of what a witch is, but I assure you I do not nor does sam practice any type of black magic whatsoever. That is an outright lie and nothing has really been done about this.