Why I think SC doctrine is racist/anti-semite

[Sammael]

I'll have to check Slow, Love, Slow... I assumed (incorrectly perhaps?) that Nightwish would be mostly metal...

Hey SGNG,
Yeah you would be correct. However, Nightwish is different from most metal bands in where they have different elements involved. They are heavily symphonic style with Celtic folk style themes in many of their songs. Which I find very interesting especially considering that 3 of the members are from Finland and the singers Annete and Marco are from Sweden. Tuomas writes the music and lyrics. Very much worth checking out.

[shadowcat]

sgng, I hope you do not drop off the boards entirely because I enjoy your posts. You have always added that dry humor that is sorely needed on some of these message boards. :-) As well as a good friend.

I understand where you are coming from though and it is a real shame that some folks that make claims of others invading their privacy are actually the ones guilty of that very thing, as well as such a con artist as such to befriend innocent women and lure them into feeling sorry for them. Asking favors and never returning what is owed. But what goes out comes back, by this I mean karma. So things come full circle to those that treat others disrespectful and are Disingenuous.

But I wouldn't worry about it if I were you. Tell him to go jump in a lake and try to ignore that very very negative vindictive entity as best you can!

Blessed Be my friend.

[jeff_franklin]

Just more libelous, slanderous lies from the Murray Cult Defenders. All lies. All Sceintology style attacks, fair gaming, dead agenting, to defend their Cuilt. Smyrna would be proud of you. You lose consitently on biblical doctrine so all you have left is to throw mud, viciously attack anyone who dares to criticize Arnold Murray's teachings. I've asked the moderator here to remove these libelous, untrue posts about me. What you have done is solid grounds for legal action against you. Cease and desist before you make it worse on yourself!

[Sammael]

Just more libelous, slanderous lies from the Murray Cult Defenders. All lies. All Sceintology style attacks, fair gaming, dead agenting, to defend their Cuilt. Smyrna would be proud of you. You lose consitently on biblical doctrine so all you have left is to throw mud, viciously attack anyone who dares to criticize Arnold Murray's teachings. I've asked the moderator here to remove these libelous, untrue posts about me. What you have done is solid grounds for legal action against you. Cease and desist before you make it worse on yourself!

I've said it before and I will say it again. With all the bs you have posted and you have the balls to cry about libel. Grow the f' up already. You really do sound like the character from the Imaginaerum movie that is coming out. The only difference is that most 10 year old mindsets are have more common sense than this.

[jeff_franklin]

Yes I do speak against the racism and antisemitism of Arnold Murray. You cal it bs. But the rest of the world does not. Arnold Murray is racist, antisemitic and dangerous. And here you are defending the posting of libelous, untrue statements about my private life. Exactly what Cults like Arnold Murray's does to critics. When you take the low road like you always do you always lose.

[Sammael]

Yes I do speak against the racism and antisemitism of Arnold Murray. You cal it bs. But the rest of the world does not. Arnold Murray is racist, antisemitic and dangerous. And here you are defending the posting of libelous, untrue statements about my private life. Exactly what Cults like Arnold Murray's does to critics. When you take the low road like you always do you always lose.

Until you pull up some real proof instead of logical fallacies (posted by you) and absurd rhetoric like "black people are better farmers than Arnold Murray" when this has absolutly nothing to do with the topics at hand, or your famous postings of CI material that never has nor ever will mention Murray by name as ever being affiliated by it. All of this by definition is libelous bs posted by you and will continue to be until you get the balls to actual post real proof. Until then every post you make will be seen for what it is, a big joke that puts egg on the face of real Christians everywhere.

[jeff_franklin]

Oh so all of what you claim I do justifies you and your comrades digging into my personal life and posting outright lies about me, my personal life that could not stand up in court of law as truth?????

You really do love Arnold Murray's lies don't you? Murray claims that non Germanic, Gaelics, blacks and orientals do not know how to farm. That God created the German Gaelics as a special race to be the farmers, leaders, teachers. That is what Murray teaches as well as all other Christian Identity, Ku Klux Klan, Aryan Nations, various Skinhead preachers of hate teach. These are the real issues here. Not whatever libel, slander you make up about my personal life. But publicly bringing the true teachings of Arnold Murray shames him and clearly shows he is racist, antismititc.

So in response all you, shadowcat, sgng can do is post libelous statements about me personally. Sounds exactly of what the Cult of Scientology does to it's critics. Exactly what Arnold Murray instructs his students to do to his critics. Exactly what you are doing right now. Always diverting criticism of Murray to attacking the one who brings the truth about Murray's teachings out in the public.

I am not the one claiming that Jews are the literal descendants of Satan and that the non german gaelic whites, blacks and orientals do not have a soul, only German Gaelics do. If Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 are not the same story telling of the same Adam and Even then the Genesis 1 human creations do not have souls. That's what happens when scripture is twisted. The lies are too preponderous to reconcile.

All of what I write is true about Murray's teachings and has been posted all over the internet by thousands of people. I do not see Arnold Murray suing anyone for libel. Because Murray knows they are true statements about what he teaches. All you are trying to do is to keep them secret because America does not cater to racism, antisemitism.

Your posting style, like smyrna's is always deflecting the truth about Murray's teachings and always going on a personal attack against anyone who dares to speak against Murray's teachings. Sounds like a racist Cult to me!

[Sammael]

Ever heard of this saying? "Whats good for the goose is good for the gander" You may want to think about that one before you ever try to bring us to your level. You see you cry about the personal attacks but seem to forget that it was you that targeted us first. So now you see you have bitten off more than you can chew and have to run home to momma aka the ole libel ploy, because you have nothing at all to use and it frustrates you. Its ok, you were never a real challenge in the first place. I have given up asking you for proof from this point on because I know you will never present any, that is because you have nothing at all. You are nothing more than a big bluff that has been called by practically everyone, and all we see are a hand that should have been folded years ago.

Run along now your annual CB Gallactica gathering of you, yourself, and sharon should be getting underway anytime now.

[jeff_franklin]

Nope, I have never done personal research on you, do not know where you live, what your real name is, make comments about your personal life. Do not post in public or private any personal information about you. All of what you and your Cult comrades have done to me. Ever hear the expression "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". That was God speaking to humanity. You obviously do not live by those rules. Your rule is "vengeance is mine!" I speak against Murray's racism, antisemitism, hated toward 90% of the world's population and all you do is attack me personally. I do not stoop to your level. Racism and antisemitism is my target and your target is me for doing such. You've been given proof over and over again, stage director has given this forum proof over and over again, many others have, yet you just ignore it and continue with your personal attacks against anyone who criticizes Murray's hate filled teachings. You are not here, never were here, to debate civilly. You are just here to attack, attack, attack anyone who dares to speak against Murray's teachings. I know most of the readers of this forum are not racists, not haters of the Jewish people and see exactly what you and your comrades are doing. Pretty clear to me.

[Sammael]

I, nor shadowcat have never done research on you. You aren't worth the time and energy on that. I would sooner research the history of root canal surgery before that. At least that would have a little bit of interest. Anyway I am sure that your life story would be as boring as reading War And Peace.

You became my target every since you began acting like an ass towards us years ago and it ain't gonna stop. You seem to forget that I don't care about sc. However, I also don't care for baseless claims either. So if you have something to say it better be 100% accurate and authenticated or else your hypocrisy will be my ammo.

[jeff_franklin]

Nope, no sale. There are hundreds of other topics on factnet where somehow baseless charges are made yet you are not there. Just here. I know it is important for Murray's cause to have seeming non Murray followers defend him against those who point out his racism, antisemitism. smyrna has been propping up that false front for years. Yes you have been doing personal research on me and have admitted to it and justified it. Shadowcat, as well as making false, libelous posts about me has in the past posted my real name on factnet. How would she know my real name unless she (and you) has done "research" on me? And as above you have justified all of it. Your statements are not credible at all. I do not know of anyone who defends Arnold Murray, who does not agree with Murray's particular twisting of scripture. Oh of course atheists want to lump Christian Identity into mainstream Christianity to make Christianity look bad. That's as disingenuous as claiming that the Westboro Baptist Cult is Christianity. Sorry, but I ain't buying that you defend Arnold Murray because I spell Kenite as Kenyte or because I might have used the Christian Identity term "mud people" to describe the mythical 6th day soulless creations when Murray doesn't call them "mud people". Those are the sum of what you call baseless accusations. What has been posted here about Murray's teachings being racist and antisemitic are true and all you reply with are continual personal attacks. Says everything about where you stand in all of this. I am YOUR target but you are not mine. Racism and antisemitism are MY target and you have taken it upon yourself to be an obstacle to my exposing it.

[stage director]

Rule #1, folks: If someone is willing to show you someone else's private correspondence, etc., when they get p.o.ed at them, whatever.. then they'll also share yours.

[sgng123]

EXACTLY my point... and they will claim, "of course NOT, I would NEVER show them your info" when you ask them about it.

And I forgot another one Stage, remember Maddie Monroe? She was another one who was sharing info...

[Josh2]

I’ve never had so many complaints in my private message inbox since I’ve been here, all coming from members posting on this thread. Having a lively discussion are we?

Sammael wrote that his brain hurts from reading Franklin’s posts, and that a ten-year-old has more common sense than him. SGNG wrote that Franklin posts at other websites claiming Franklin knows his real name and where he lives, and that Franklin has emails of his, knows all about him, and that Franklin has been collecting information about him through mutual acquaintances. Shadowcat said (indirectly) that Franklin is negative and vindictive. And Franklin is charging everyone with libel.

What is a moderator to do with all of this animosity? Well, for now nothing. You guys apparently have issues to work out with one another, so get it all out of your systems and then we’ll see where the dust settles. I’ll be looking in regularly to make sure it doesn’t evolve into an ugly flame war filled with objectionable content; otherwise hash it out amongst yourselves.

As far as libel, just remember that forums are voluntary and that members here are anonymous; and that courts have recognized that the right to anonymous speech is protected by the First Amendment. For every statement you think of as libel, you would have to prove that it’s false, and that it harmed you in some way.

Franklin, an anonymous opinion posted in this discussion board stating that “a ten-year-old has more sense than you” or that “you are negative and vindictive” is not something that any lawyer would consider actionable libel. What people say privately or at other websites is not our concern. The only thing that matters is what shows up in these FACTnet threads and if any of it violates forum etiquette/rules…which are in themselves flexible and open to interpretation by the moderators.

I don’t see any evidence that anyone here has divulged real names and residences of any of our members in these threads. I hear a lot of charges that there have been some private messages and emails that have been shared where personal information might have been discovered, and that some have been “stalking” and collecting information; but as far as I’m aware none of this has been posted publicly here in this forum. If any of you see this happening, let me know. Just don’t post publicly what others say to you privately. Stage Director is right. “If someone is willing to show you someone else’s private messages, they will also share your’s.”

All I can say at this point is to try to engage in intelligent debate and attempt to stay focused on the topic of the thread without personal animosity. The rest is up to you.

[sgng123]

"Sammael wrote that his brain hurts from reading Franklin’s posts, and that a ten-year-old has more common sense than him. SGNG wrote that Franklin posts at other websites claiming Franklin knows his real name and where he lives, and that Franklin has emails of his, knows all about him, and that Franklin has been collecting information about him through mutual acquaintances. Shadowcat said (indirectly) that Franklin is negative and vindictive. And Franklin is charging everyone with libel"

ALL true Josh! haha

[jeff_franklin]

I am not charging "everyone" with libel. Just two people. Just yesterday shadowcat made a very libelous statement about me, yes it was obvious who she was writing about. And my anonymity was pierced a few months ago when shadowcat also, as well as smyrna repeatedly, posted my real name as well as where I live. Any Judge would deem the dots can be connected. Though my name and location were posted and then deleted by the admin later the fact is the damage was done and I have no anonymity here and a very libelous statement was made against me. There is no other way to look at it. First right thing to do is to delete the libelous post. Defenders of Arnold Murray get very crazy acting when you criticize their Cult Leader's beliefs but there is no excuse for personally libeling the ones criticizing them dragging dubious hearsay information of a personal nature that has no bearing on this discussion. I am not running for President. Oneway is not a drug abuser and I am not guilty of what shadowcat (who has no personal knowledge, just hearsay, but supposedly does no research one me, yeah right). If smyrna was banned for accusing Oneway for being a drug abuser why can't factnet delete the libelous post made against me. This is not the wild, wild west. All I am asking is that the rules be enforced. I have been following the rules. I have remained civil yet Arnold Murray's defenders have been totally uncivil. What gives?

[sgng123]

Frank I had my full name and other details posted here several years, Nab was kind enough to dig back into the archives to have it removed. I had to pay to do it, but I was glad to. My name and that post was showing up in Google searches while I was job searching one time, unbelievable.

I've had my name shared in PM's at CBR, you said the other day that you had "links" sent to you about my info. It happens.

I wouldn't worry about it. What I think is uncool, is when you've been compromised and then someone attaches THAT username with "Nazi", "Stalker", "Predator"... etc. It's painful.

But what comes around goes around... and one law that is irrefutable in this universe is, you will most certainly reap what you sow. I've had that bite me in the rear end a few times online...

[turtle]

Franklin i just did a search of your name, and if it what I found you are kidding? Right? No I seriously doubt it. However I be truthful I had not known your name. However don't let that surprise you. However I want to know one thing. How do you have time to message board?

[Sammael]

I don't apologize for anything I do on here, unless there seriously was a misunderstanding and then I would be willing to hear it out. However, Franklin couldn't be any more off from what is really going on. He has never once been cordial or civil towards me nor shadowcat. From day 1 he had targeted us from everything like pagans to closet murrayites. So now he is wondering what is up with the animosity? It shouldn't be that hard to figure out. So he wants to play the game, but has bitten off more than he can chew. I am just getting started.

Franklin for president? Who the hell said that? That is the most frightening thing I could think of. If that were the case, we could wave bye bye to the first amendment.

But now, I know the path that I have taken is one that most Christians don't agree with. Sgng doesn't always agree with mine or shadowcat's beliefs, but at least he can be approachable about it without twisting and turning things around. This libel crap is nothing but a vain attempt to cover the real issue. The real issue is that you have nothing offer Franklin, but the same post over and over again. If that is libel, than I would hate to see what you consider truth. I guess I will have to travel to the fourth dimension to find that out.

[jeff_franklin]

Big Big difference. First what others have done to you has no bearing on any of this. I have NOT done that to you. I nor anyone I know has posted the name you claim to go by on a public forum, public or private. I have never shared your real name with anyone in a private email either or on the phone. Treating people the way you want to be treated is the Golden Rule for all Christians and all wise human beings.

So no, I have not done research on anyone here, or revealed their names in public or private. I do not want to be treated that way so I do not treat others that way. People have claimed to have talked to my friends about me. Well my friends live here locally (not someone I just know from the internet) and know me, work with me, spend time together in person and they know I am none of the things I have been falsely accused of on this forum.

I have remained lawful in all of this. I have had more than sufficient grounds to make every statement I have made and have solid evidence to solidly support each and every statement.

There is only one type of entities that libel, slander others and they are CULTS. Big and small. Religious, political, whatever. Because they have no truth to defend their beliefs or actions so they always resort to lies, innuendos, distortions, pure fabrications, gossip, blackmail, extortion, whatever means legal and illegal to destroy whoever criticizes their Cult Leader and their beliefs.

Time and time again on these very pages of factnet and elsewhere followers of Arnold Murray have used the above tactics and more to destroy and silence the critics of Arnold Murray. I remember when I first started reading the Murray threads here 7 years ago smyrna posted a link to a photo of a man in a straight jacket being held by two orderlies of a insane asylum and the caption indicated it was a factnet poster critical of Arnold Murray by the name of Manuforti.

So this has been going on for years and encouraged by Arnold Murray telling his students to "take care of them" meaning his critics. That's a Cult! I know of no Christian denomination that does that. Only Cults. Arnold Murray teaches that only his students will be in heaven with him. All who are known as mainstream Christians are going to hell because as watchmen told Dave Munson, we suck off the devil's tit. That is a Cult!

What has been done to me and others continuously on this forum and others has been done by Stalkers, Predators and certainly they use Nazi tactics. Cult defenders.

What was done to Chad14 recently was done by a stalker, predator using Nazi tactics.

Shepherds Chapel is NOT a "New Religious Movement", the newspeak politically correct term of Cult. Cults have a criteria and Shepherds Chapel meets almost everyone of those Cult criteria, as much as Scientology does, enough to clearly establish Shepherds Chapel as a mind control Cult.

Throw in the racist antisemitic beliefs and Shepherds Chapel is a very dangerous mind control Cult. I see no difference between them and their same believing Christian Identity fellow Cults, Aryan Nations, Ku Klux Klan. Beliefs, tactics. Only difference is that Shep Chappers don't wear uniforms and don't give the stiff armed salute. Well guess what, David Duke doesn't either anymore.

I have had my name posted here and then false, libelous statements made about me. Solid grounds for a libel suit.

All it needs is the ip addresses of those who made those posts. A subpoena will provide those. Proxy ips, anonyminizers don't stand a chance of disguising who they really are. The creep kid who hacked into Sarah Palin's email account found that out.

I don't agree with the moderation here but I will leave it at that. Treat people the way you want to be treated. Not necessarily how they treat you. I've lived by that, will continue to do so.

A lot of gossip has been thrown around about someone who is still a member of this forum and I have not told my side of the story. And I won't. Because I am a gentleman and I stick to treating people the way I want to be treated regardless how they treat me. I have forgiven them each time they have transgressed against me. The bond is still there and is strong.

And it is NOT smyrna's or Arnold Murray's business!

So these yahoos who come out of the woodwork like termites to defend by malicious means, Arnold Murray a racist hater of the Jews... they deserve to have their butts dragged into court. They only hang themselves worse by every poisonous drip of vitriol from their keyboards. And Arnold Murray comes close to being dragged into court with them. He is the one giving the orders.

With proper moderation the topic could be discussed with no legal action being necessary.

But once someone's real name is posted in public (even if just briefly) without that person's permission and libelous (untrue) statements are made about them, then the only recourse, the smart choice, the American way, is to sue the perpetrator in Court for libel. That is the law our founding fathers gave us and has been utilized for 200+ years. Because they knew that was the only way for America to be a peaceful society. Governed by laws, not guns.

With those laws America has remained a civil and just nation. The creation and use, abuse of the internet makes no difference whatsoever, no distinction. Judgments have been declared and damages have been awarded.

In defense of a Cult or not... act accordingly. Be lawless or lawful. Your choice.

Those who stand up against Racism, Antisemitism are brave, true Americans and are not subject to what only criminals deserve. Yes, criminal actions deserve the reap what you sow.

But 70 years ago in Nazi Germany those who took a stand against racism and antisemitism were the Nazi state's criminals. They did not deserve to die. They followed God's laws, not man's. The Nazis declared they "reaped what they sowed".

But no, they were men and women of courage, morals. What they stood against was evil and was soon to be destroyed at the cost of over a hundred million lives. It was the criminals, the racist antisemitic Nazis who REAPED WHAT THEY SOWED. The Nazis, the butchers' names live in infamy, those who did nothing lived in shame and those who stood against the Nazis will always be remembered and honored as Heroes.

Doing God's will does not fall under the "reap what you sow" rule. The Pharisees claimed that Christ "reaped what he sowed". They lied.

Speaking the word of God, defending the persecuted, the innocent, doing God's will does not have a golden parachute clause attached to it that allows one to bail out if in doing God's will it gets too rough just become one of the silent, become Peter who denied Christ thrice.

70 years later, this is 2012. And the ugly head of racism, antisemitism and Nazism has spread far across this land, this world ready to devour all of us, murder millions of our children and grandchildren. Even without the real threat of nuclear annihilation we faced during the Cold War the world is still just as dangerous as then.

How do you want your name remembered? As a racist, antisemite, Nazi? One who did nothing, said nothing against racist, antisemite, Nazi Or one who did speak against racism, antisemitism and Nazism? Your choice!

I've made mine. Arnold Murray is a racist antisemite and needs to apologize to every Jewish person, every non Germanic Gaelic person and repent to God for his sins!