The Bible as the Word of God

[turtle]

THE HOLY BIBLE, Conteyning the Old Testament, AND THE NEW: Newly Translated out of the Originall tongues: & with the former Translations diligently compared and reuised: by his Maiesties speciall Comandement Apppointed to be read in Churches.

Imprinted at London by Robert Barker. Printer to the Kings most Excellent Maiestie.

Anno Dom. 1611.

TO THE MOST HIGH AND MIGHTIE Prince, Iames by the grace of God King of Great Britaine, France and Ireland, Defender of the Faith, &c. THE TRANSLATORS OF THE BIBLE, with Grace, Mercie, and Peace, throughIesvs Christ our Lord. Great and manifold were the blessings (most dread Soueraigne) which Almighty God, the Father of all Mercies, bestowed vpon vs the people of England, when first he sent your Maiesties Royall person to rule and raigne ouer vs. For whereas it was the expectation of many, who wished not well vnto our Sion, that vpon the setting of that bright Occidentall Starre Queene Elizabeth of most happy memory, some thicke and palpable cloudes of darkenesse would so haue ouershadowed this land, that men should haue bene in doubt which way they were to walke, and that it should hardly be knowen, who was to direct the vnsetled State: the appearance of your Maiestie, as of the Sunne in his strength, instantly dispelled those supposed and surmised mists, and gaue vnto all that were well affected, exceeding cause of comfort; especially when we beheld the gouernment established in your Highnesse, and your hopefull Seed, by an vndoubted Title, and this also accompanied with Peace and tranquillitie, at home and abroad.

But amongst all our Ioyes, there was no one that more filled our hearts, then the blessed continuance of the Preaching of Gods word amongst vs, which is that inestimable treasure, which excelleth all the riches of the earth, because the fruit thereof extendeth it selfe, not onely to the time spent in this transitory world, but directeth and disposeth men vnto that Eternall happinesse which is aboue in Heauen.

Then, not to suffer this to fall to the ground, but rather to take it vp, and to continue it in that state, wherein the famous predecessour of your Highnesse did leaue it; Nay, to goe forward with the confidence and resolution of a man in maintaining the trueth of Christ, and propagating it farre and neere, is that which hath so bound and firmely knit the hearts of all your Maiesties loyall and Religious people vnto you, that your very Name is precious among them, their eye doeth behold you with comfort, and they blesse you in their hearts, as that sanctified person, who vnder God, is the immediate authour of their true happinesse. And this their contentment doeth not diminish or decay, but euery day increaseth and taketh strength, when they obserue that the zeale of your Maiestie towards the house of God, doth not slacke or goe backward, but is more and more kindled, manifesting it selfe abroad in the furthest parts of Christendome, by writing in defence of the Trueth, (which hath giuen such a blow vnto that man in Sinne, as will not be healed) and euery day at home, by Religious and learned discourse, by frequenting the house of God, by hearing the word preached, by cherishing the teachers therof, by caring for the Church as a most tender and louing nourcing Father.

There are infinite arguments of this right Christian and Religious affection in your Maiestie: but none is more forcible to declare it to others, then the vehement and perpetuated desire of the accomplishing and publishing of this Worke, which now with all humilitie we present vnto your Maiestie. For when your Highnesse had once out of deepe iudgment apprehended, how conuenient it was, That out of the Originall sacred tongues, together with comparing of the labours, both in our owne and other forreigne Languages, of many worthy men who went before vs, there should be one more exact Translation of the holy Scriptures into the English tongue; your Maiestie did neuer desist, to vrge and to excite those to whom it was commended, that the worke might be hastened, and that the businesse might be expedited in so decent a maner, as a matter of such importance might iustly require.

And now at last, by the Mercy of God, and the continuance of our Labours, it being brought vnto such a conclusion, as that we haue great hope that the Church of England shall reape good fruit thereby; we hold it our duety to offer it to your Maiestie, not onely as to our King and Soueraigne, but as to the prinicipall moouer and Author of the Worke. Humbly crauing of your most Sacred Maiestie, that since things of this quality haue euer bene subiect to the censures of ill meaning and discontented persons, it may receiue approbation and Patronage from so learned and iudicious a Prince as your Highnesse is, whose allowance and acceptance of our Labours, shall more honour and incourage vs, then all the calumniations and hard interpretations of other men shall dismay vs. So that, if on the one side we shall be traduced by Popish persons at home or abroad, who therefore will maligne vs, because we are poore Instruments to make Gods holy Trueth to be yet more and more knowen vnto the people, whom they desire still to keepe in ignorance and darknesse: or if on the other side, we shall be maligned by selfe-conceited brethren, who runne their owne wayes, and giue liking vnto nothing but what is framed by themselues, and hammered on their Anuile; we may rest secure, supported within by the trueth and innocencie of a good conscience, hauing walked the wayes of simplicitie and integritie, as before the Lord; And sustained without, by the powerfull Protection of your Maiesties grace and fauour, which will euer giue countenance to honest and Christian endeuours, against bitter censures, and vncharitable imputations.

The Lord of Heauen and earth blesse your Maiestie with many and happy dayes, that as his Heauenly hand hath enriched your Highnesse with many singular, and extraordinary Graces; so you may be the wonder of the world in this later age, for happinesse and true felicitie, to the honour of that Great God, and the good of his Church, through Iesvs Christ our Lord and onely Sauiour.



BA simple english prenotes to the Bible on e-sword http://www.e-sword.net this Bible program has information

[turtle]

Ba the difference is not only words but the font. The words are pretty much the same, except for some spelling of words. Majority is still the same. Computer changes the font to what ever you are using on the computer.

[ba2]

Ba the difference is not only words but the font. The words are pretty much the same, except for some spelling of words. Majority is still the same. Computer changes the font to what ever you are using on the computer.

I see you have the first page of the preface which was meant as a message to James; The remaining pages of the preface was for the reader, which is more important, in my opinion. My version of e-sword doesn’t give me the preface. I’ll have to see about updating my version.

There are 11 pages in the original preface of the 1611 KJV. If you can, try to read through all 11 pages. Difficult to read, but very telling. The changes from the 1611 KJV are more than the font. Yes, many of the words are very similar, which is why you can make some sense of it. But to read it at length, it is quite cumbersome and there does appear to be changes in meaning. Look at the example I gave you in post 100 or maybe just look at the few here:

Ezekiel 24:7 — “powred it vpon the ground” vs. “poured it not upon the ground”
Joshua 3:11 — “Arke of the Couenant, euen the Lord” vs. “the ark of the covenant of the LORD”
1 Corinthi¬ans 15:6 — “And that” vs. “After that”

These really can change the literal meaning. Also, since 1611, many English words have totally changed meaning. For example, in 1611, "let" means "hinder," "lust" means "desire" which is not all ways bad, "fair" means "beautiful" not just average, "quick" means "living" and "nephews" means "grandchildren." "Corn" means "grain" for corn, in biblical times, was only found in North and South America by the Indians.

The margin notes are even more telling. One of my pastors once tried to tell me that there were no margin notes, that they were added by someone else at a later date. But the small section of the preface I pasted in post 98 specifically mentions his notes: “Now in such a case, doth not a margine do well to admonish the Reader to seeke further, and not to conclude or dogmatize upon this or that peremptorily?”

I have to wonder why anyone would be afraid of seeking for truth?

[turtle]

ba2, I bet for certain that you had never thought that if there is a place to the people, that it was added later. See i just looked at my kjv and it was only to King James. NOw if you have another text perhaps it has some help guides with instruction to you have well. However at least KJV did not have to deal with people trying to use mine control.

[easeltine]

Attachment 283

You can get pages from Ebay on a KJV page for pretty cheap sometimes. Attached is a page I got for a little under $5.00. This is an original KJV around 1650's publication. Double click to see it bigger.

The KJV is a fantastic version of the Bible. I am not going to knock it! I mostly use NKJV.

Did any of you know that King James may have been gay?

[easeltine]

Attachment 284

Hi,
Attached are the other the other two pages that I bought for $4.15 each with the other. I think it was $12.44 for the three that I bought a couple years ago.

[easeltine]

Psalm 26 "Examine Me, O LORD, and Prove Me." A Psalm of David

Vindicte, me, O LORD, for I have walked in my integrity.
I have also trusted in the LORD; I will not slip.
Examine me, O LORD, and prove me; try my mind and my heart.
For Your lovingkindness is before my eyes, and I have walked in Your truth.
I have not sat with idolatrous mortals, nor will I go in with the hypocrites.
I have hated the congregation of evildoers, and will not sit with the wicked.

I will wash my hands in innocence; so I will go about Your altar, O LORD,
That I may proclaim with the voice of thanksgiving, and teel of all Your wondrous works.
LORD, I have loved the habitation of Your house, and the place where Your glory dwells.

Do not gather my soul together with sinners, nor my life with bloodthirsty men,
in whose hands is a sinister scheme, and whose right hand if full of bribes.

But as for me, I will walk in my integrity; redeem me and be merciful to me.
My foot stands in an even place; in the congregations I will bless the LORD.

[turtle]

EAseltine, have you ever consider unless you have that paper which it is printed on checkout it could be a forgery.

[ba2]

ba2, I bet for certain that you had never thought that if there is a place to the people, that it was added later. See i just looked at my kjv and it was only to King James. NOw if you have another text perhaps it has some help guides with instruction to you have well. However at least KJV did not have to deal with people trying to use mine control.

That seems to be a stretch to me but I have been told that before. What do you say about my quote of Ezekiel 24:7 — “powred it vpon the ground” vs. “poured it not upon the ground”

[easeltine]

Turtle,

They are authentic.
What they do is buy antique Bibles that have damaged covers, and some of the pages are damaged. Then they divide them up. So, if they buy the antique Bible for $500, and there are 1000 good pages to it, then they are going to be able to make money at $4.00 each.

The verse is supposed to have "Not" in it. It is there in all the other Versions, including the Masoretic text.
The original version has a mistake w/o the "Not."

If you are one of these wild KJV-Only types you may quote the Scripture:

"For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plaques that are written in this book;
and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life..."
Revelation 22:18, 19

So, original edition, not "not," later edition, adds "not," but no not is not what those verses mean!

Therefore, to a true purist KJV-Only freak the original edition took away, and the later edition added a word, and both groups of Translators have erred, for the original KJV is pure/flawless, and the newer edition, (oh my, why did they do that), added to the most Holy words.
That Scripture is talking about a deliverate corruption of Scripture, (not an accident), if you actually take it to mean the entire Scripture not just the Book of Revelation. The original KJV, erred, it had a flaw, so not every word was pure and annointed...oh the blessed Textus Receptus bit...NOT!

[chad14]

i for one am a kjv onlist as you all call it . i love that bible and for me it is the only one

[turtle]

Revelation 22:18

(ABP+) I bear witnessG3140 G1473 to every one G3956 hearingG191 theG3588 wordsG3056 of theG3588 prophecyG4394 G3588 of this scroll;G975 G3778 ifG1437 anyoneG5100 should addG2007 uponG1909 these,G1473 [2will placeG2007 3uponG1909 4himG1473 G3588 1God]G2316 theG3588 calamitiesG4127 G3588 being writtenG1125 inG1722 G3588 this scroll.G975 G3778

(ASV) I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, if any man shall add unto them, God shall add unto him the plagues which are written in this book:

(BBE) For I say to every man to whose ears have come the words of this prophet's book, If any man makes an addition to them, God will put on him the punishments which are in this book:

(Bishops) I testifie vnto euery man that heareth the wordes of ye prophecie of this booke: If any man shall adde vnto these thynges, God shall adde vnto hym the plagues that are written in this booke.

(CEV) Here is my warning for everyone who hears the prophecies in this book: If you add anything to them, God will make you suffer all the terrible troubles written in this book.

(Darby) *I* testify to every one who hears the words of the prophecy of this book, If any one shall add to these things, God shall add to him the plagues which are written in this book.

(DRB) For I testify to every one that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book: If any man shall add to these things, God shall add unto him the plagues written in this book.

(EMTV) I testify to everyone hearing the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to them, may God add to him the plagues having been written in this book.

(ERV) I warn everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds anything to these, God will give that person the plagues written about in this book.

(ESV) I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book,

(Geneva) For I protest vnto euery man that heareth the woordes of the prophecie of this booke, If any man shal adde vnto these things, God shall adde vnto him the plagues, that are written in this booke:

(GNB) I, John, solemnly warn everyone who hears the prophetic words of this book: if any add anything to them, God will add to their punishment the plagues described in this book.

(HNT) מעיד אני בכל־השמע דברי נבואת הספר הזה אשר אם־יוסיף איש עליהם יוסיף עליו האלהים את־המכות הכתובות בספר הזה׃

(ISV) I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy in this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will strike him with the plagues that are written in this book.

Now Easeltine
Which translation uses the word not

(KJV) For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

(KJV+) ForG1063 I testifyG4828 unto every manG3956 that hearethG191 theG3588 wordsG3056 of theG3588 prophecyG4394 of thisG5127 book,G975 IfG1437 any manG5100 shall addG2007 untoG4314 these things,G5023 GodG2316 shall addG2007 untoG1909 himG846 theG3588 plaguesG4127 that are writtenG1125 inG1722 thisG5129 book:G975

(KJV-1611) For I testifie vnto euery man that heareth the wordes of the prophesie of this booke, If any man shal adde vnto these things, God shall adde vnto him the plagues, that are written in this booke.

(LEB) I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues written in this book.

(LITV) For I testify together with everyone hearing the Words of the prophecy of this Book, if anyone adds to these things, God will add upon him the plagues having been written in this Book.

(MKJV) For I testify together to everyone who hears the Words of the prophecy of this Book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add on him the plagues that have been written in this Book.

(Murdock) I testify to every one that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, that if any one shall add to them, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book.

(Webster) For I testify to every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, if any man shall add to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book:

(WNT) "I solemnly declare to every one who hears the words of the prophecy contained in this book, that if any one adds to those words, God will add to him the plagues spoken of in this book;

(YLT) `For I testify to every one hearing the words of the prophecy of this scroll, if any one may add unto these, God shall add to him the plagues that have been written in this scroll,

[turtle]

You want to know what is different in the Jerusalem Bible and ours?



Ba your Bible name the scripture please.

[ba2]

You want to know what is different in the Jerusalem Bible and ours?



Ba your Bible name the scripture please.

I'm sure there are some differences between the Jerusalem Bible and the one I use but, what are you getting at?

I generally use the KJV published by Zondervan. It has a limited Concordance and no commentaries. I don’t like the study bibles which have a lot of commentary. I mainly use the KJV because it is what everyone uses at church. I have yet to find a version which doesn’t have errors. I often need to go to other sources because I sometimes find inconsistencies in the KJV and sometimes the language just doesn’t make logical sense. When reading the OT, I often use the Stone Edition of Tanach published by Mesorah Publications. I also go to e-sword and will read Young’s 1898 Literal Translation. Using these with Strong’s Concordance gets me pretty far if it is not too controversial. Otherwise, for the NT, I will get a Septuagint Koine Greek version or Latin Vulgate version and do a word study. kypros.org has an excellent Old Greek translator which can be most helpful. Sometimes looking at the Latin Vulgate will give a good idea at to what the early translators thought a word or phrase meant.
Interesting that you believe the word “not” belongs in Ezekiel 24:7 original KJV “powred it vpon the ground” vs. today’s KJV “poured it not upon the ground”. This of course means you realize there could be mistakes in the original. Which means all versions available today could have errors.

[turtle]

ba what does your footnote on Mark 16 says or at the end of the chapter says on you NKJV by zondervan? I know what mine NIV says. It says not a quote, but that some of those verses were added and not found in oldest text. However what is the oldest text? That is the point. It is simple is the oldest text on stone or scrolls. Would the tanake be more in line with ancient scripture as well as the Greek copies of the Bible like the textus receptus which is from ancient letters

[easeltine]

Turtle,

The "Not" conversation was in reference to Ezekiel 24:7 that Ba brought up.

The Tanakh is the Masoretic Text from 1000 AD, the KJV uses the Septuagint from 300 BC, the KJV version of the O.T. is better than the Masoretic Text in my opinion.

[turtle]

ONe could always use the original greek letters

[ba2]

Turtle,
the only notes in My KJV are notes I wrote in myself. Not that it really matters, but its not an NKJV. You asked earlier if I want to know what is different in the Jerusalem Bible and ours? Now you ask me to look at the notes in my bible, which are not there. What are you getting at?

Yes, we could use the originals, if they were available. I do sometimes use the Greek texts because the newer versions have switched a few important words. My point is that there are errors and/or contradictions in every version we look at. This is why I generally don't think they were ever meant to be literally interpreted. We can get lost in words and miss the message. I also am quite sure that the scripture has been altered many times, sometimes by accident, sometimes on purpose for someone’s personal gain. And those alterations started as soon as man started putting it down in writing, maybe even before that. That being said, we can still get the message being transmitted, if we don’t get bogged down. To me, everything comes alive when I read metaphorically.

[easeltine]

At the beginning of the NKJV it explains the different meanings for Greek Texts. In the following case NU stands for the Nestle-Aland Greek New Testament.
The NKJV has the following footnote for Mark 16:9-20:

"vs. 9-20 are bracketed in NU as not original.
They are lacking in Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus, although nearly all other mss. of Mark contain them."

The NKJV uses the Textus Receptus, does not space the verses down like the NIV does. The NKJV Translation agrees with your point, "...nearly all other mss. of Mark contain them." Mark 16:9-20 is in Jerome's Latin Vulgate that was done around 400 AD. Jerome would have found these verses in Mark in what is called "Old Latin," and it is probable there may even have been an older Greek Text that he was looking at than we have available. A point I have repeatedly made to BO TATM COL.

The Catholic Scholar, Erasmus, that produced the Textus Receptus used Greek Manuscripts from the 1200, and also compared them to The Latin Vulgate. The verses in Mark were in both of these texts. Erasmus also added those verses in 1 John in his third edition because a scholar found a Latin Vulgate from the 700's that predated the Greek Manuscripts he used.

[turtle]

Easeltine, the talk of old manuscripts is repetative. After all text get worn. HOwever believers have the seal of the Holy Spirit and the handwritting on their hearts. Yet at the same time, there is get error accuring because of availability of these ancient text. Old letters would be interesting to see to any greek scholar.