The real Trayvan Martin

[stage director]

Not unless we want to believe that no one from LA's huge Hispanic population, and substancial Asian population, live in public housing.

Duh. This should read "huge Hispanic population, substancial Asian population, and majority white population..."

[stage director]

Look, Bo.. I think where we differ in thought is that you seem more focused on the effect, while I think we need to fix the cause. There are probably many circumstances by which households end up needing public housing, and I believe the solution should be about making it temporary, whether it's via work to earn, job training, mandatory "volunteering" or other programs. What I see as the Catch-22 is the children of these households. While many of us might be ok with a more sink or swim attitude where it involves able bodied adults who live on government subsidies because they refuse to be productive, we're unwilling to adopt that attitude when children are involved. Programs, including government housing and Section 8, should be given on a temporary basis except under certain circumstances, the poor elderly, the disabled, etc., and programs should be geared towards that end. But at the same time we need to make sure children aren't unduly penalized for the poor choices of parents. NOT an easy task.

[Col. Bo Cowshut]

Are to blame for what?

I have said/firmly believe you are blinded by a do-gooder/holier-than-thy attitude. Could you show me the 44% excuse me 44.2% of blacks who are independently wealthy enough to own their own homes. I seriously doubt you can find 44% of multi-millionaires who own their own home. The "cause" of people living on the taxpayers dime has little to nothing to do with poverty. The "effect" of those living on the taxpayers dime is folks like yourself, folks willing to throw taxpayer's money at any problem you do not want to deal with.

[dodge]

Hi Stage. I just read Cowshut’s definition of you as being blinded by a do-gooder holier-than-thou attitude. If a do-gooder is one who is well-intentioned, philanthropic, and humanitarian, I certainly can vouch for that; because I’ve been a personal witness of some of the selfless things you’ve done for others which you have too much class to brag about. I doubt if Cowshut could summon similar compassion for the misfortune of others, judging by his attitude towards the less fortunate.

[stage director]

Excuse me, but I believe it said live in a home-owner owned homes. Although clearly those numbers seem to indicate that the majority of blacks don't live in urban areas, because I know it's not the case in the metropolitan area I live in. However, Mississippi has the largest percentage of blacks in the nation, and I know a large number of blacks in, or from, Mississippi. I'd say it definitely applies there, and those numbers are probably assisted by the fact that 71% of Mississippians live in a home that is owned by a member of the household, while 37% of Mississippians are black. On the other hand, blacks only make up a little more than 6.2% of the population of California where the household with homeowner rate is only about 57%, so.. do the math.

Take Maryland, where over 29% of the population is black, but only 8.6 % of the state population live below the poverty level. At a very minimum, 2/3's of the blacks there are not poor. In Georgia it's over 30% black, and 15.7% poor among the entire state population. And then you have Kentucky, where blacks make up less than 8% of the population, yet almost 18% of the population lives below the poverty level. Or Washington with over 12% poor while only 3.6% of the population is black. Like I said, I don't buy your numbers.

folks like yourself, folks willing to throw taxpayer's money at any problem you do not want to deal with.

See, it's a rush to judgement like this that aids you in erroneously concluding that 95% of all blacks get free rent. What I believe is that these many social programs are hurting America, and for more reasons than just the money spent. Where you've got a large segment of the population whose income is not dependant on the quality of leadership we elect.. because job stability, paying for health care, the cost of transportation, as well as the issues become irrelevant when you don't have a vested interest in these things.. you prime people for accepting a decayed society as the norm, and even institutions like socialism.

[stage director]

Cowshut’s definition of you as being blinded by a do-gooder holier-than-thou attitude

Hi, Dodge. I believe it's always better when you actually teach a person to fish instead of just giving them a fish, but the fact of the matter is these programs already exist, so for me the question is how do you change the programs to help people become self-sufficient. And you have to consider the impact on the children involved when you do this. I think Bo acts like the solution is to turn folks out of their free/reduced rate housing and cut off the checks, but it's a little more long term and complicated than that.

[stage director]

Could you show me the 44% excuse me 44.2% of blacks who are independently wealthy enough to own their own homes.

Until 15 years ago or so you basically only needed a steady job and a decent credit rating to buy a home. I'll concede that 44.2 percent of blacks aren't currently buying homes. ;->

[Col. Bo Cowshut]

Until 15 years ago or so you basically only needed a steady job and a decent credit rating to buy a home. I'll concede that 44.2 percent of blacks aren't currently buying homes. ;->

WOW! Look you finally got off your high horse. Amazing what a little sarcasm will do. Now who financed (backed) those mortages? Taxpayers maybe? FHA, HUD?? Ever hear of Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac? Taxpayers dime? 95%.

[Col. Bo Cowshut]

Hi Stage. I just read Cowshut’s definition of you as being blinded by a do-gooder holier-than-thou attitude. If a do-gooder is one who is well-intentioned, philanthropic, and humanitarian, I certainly can vouch for that; because I’ve been a personal witness of some of the selfless things you’ve done for others which you have too much class to brag about. I doubt if Cowshut could summon similar compassion for the misfortune of others, judging by his attitude towards the less fortunate.

Join in the conversation any time you have permission from manipulated media. Let us begin with non-discretionary spending (ie entitlements).

[dodge]

There you go again, Cowshut, with your mantra of “manipulated media,” even though I’ve mentioned several times that I get my information from researching academic and scientific sources using the following search engines:

Google Scholar http://scholar.google.com/schhp?hl=en&as_sdt=0,22

SearchEdu.com http://www.searchedu.com/

Explain to me why you think that information coming from institutions of higher learning, scholarly papers published in peer reviewed journals, and studies conducted using the scientific method are representative of “manipulated media.”

I think it would be interesting, and demonstrate your essential nature, by telling me what you think of as “un-manipulated media,” and show me where you go to get your information.

[Col. Bo Cowshut]

There you go again, Cowshut, with your mantra of “manipulated media,” even though I’ve mentioned several times that I get my information from researching academic and scientific sources using the following search engines:

Google Scholar http://scholar.google.com/schhp?hl=en&as_sdt=0,22

SearchEdu.com http://www.searchedu.com/

Explain to me why you think that information coming from institutions of higher learning, scholarly papers published in peer reviewed journals, and studies conducted using the scientific method are representative of “manipulated media.”

I think it would be interesting, and demonstrate your essential nature, by telling me what you think of as “un-manipulated media,” and show me where you go to get your information.

Every answer you have provided thus far have been direct quotes from manipulated media.

[dodge]

Hi Cowshut -- You seem to be avoiding answering the question about what “media” you believe to be “non-manipulated,” and where you go for information and news. Why is that?

[Col. Bo Cowshut]

Hi Cowshut -- You seem to be avoiding answering the question about what “media” you believe to be “non-manipulated,” and where you go for information and news. Why is that?

The answer is simple, turn off the trash you are watching. Even the Russian news is ahead of you.

[dodge]

Fact is, Cowshut, I don’t watch any network or cable news; so your comment about “turning off the trash I’m watching” has absolutely no meaning. Your rhetoric is pure right-wing propaganda.

[easeltine]

Stage,

Section 8 targeting African-Americans is a real problem in Los Angeles. This is from an article 2 weeks old:

"The lawsuit claims the Los Angeles County and related housing authority acted discriminatorily by favoring African Americans for section 8 housing. The complaint in the lawsuit claims the discrimination occurred when African Americans were given preferential treatment over other eligible races applying for section 8 housing. The compliant claims the housing authority applies racial steering procedures that provide section 8 housing to a larger number of African Americans in a particular area within the county."

Poor Hispanics, are particularly upset about the situation. The African-American community in South Central get these propgrams before Hispanics. One of my ex-African-American employers owned over 35 properties between him and his wife. They were also getting Federal Minority Set-Aside Business Awards that they were not entitled to. The housing was in his wife's name to make him look more poor. They knew they were doing things under the table also. They called my Conservative African-American friend, (more Conservative on these Affirmative Action Programs than me), stupid, because they felt that he did not understand the benefits of taking advantage of the government system to get more money being African-American. There are some people in the African-American Community that REALLY take advantage of the system. I have seen it first hand. I include the President in that number.

[stage director]

One of my ex-African-American employers owned over 35 properties between him and his wife. They were also getting Federal Minority Set-Aside Business Awards that they were not entitled to. The housing was in his wife's name to make him look more poor. They knew they were doing things under the table also. They called my Conservative African-American friend, (more Conservative on these Affirmative Action Programs than me), stupid, because they felt that he did not understand the benefits of taking advantage of the government system to get more money being African-American. There are some people in the African-American Community that REALLY take advantage of the system

And he should be prosecuted (not to mention kicked out of the program) but.. blacks don't have a monopoly on trying to rip off the government. Folks with a sense of entitlement come in every color.

Section 8 targeting African-Americans is a real problem in Los Angeles. This is from an article 2 weeks old:

"The lawsuit claims the Los Angeles County and related housing authority acted discriminatorily by favoring African Americans for section 8 housing. The complaint in the lawsuit claims the discrimination occurred when African Americans were given preferential treatment over other eligible races applying for section 8 housing. The compliant claims the housing authority applies racial steering procedures that provide section 8 housing to a larger number of African Americans in a particular area within the county."

But who's deciding who gets each unit? The tenants? Or the agency itself? And what "particular area within the county" is it? Was it Watts? Because, quite frankly, I just don't believe there's a whole lot of white folks who were trying to move to Watts, even for Section 8 housing. Was there a concern some hispanics who applied might be illegals? Were they? Plus, way more people are applying for public housing than use to. Were there complaints five years ago? Or are many tenants long term, while other ethnicities are applying in greater number now? Because the percentage of whites and hispanics living below the poverty level has risen pretty drastically in the last five years. Blacks not so much. By all means, it should be fair. But the fact it might not be doesn't necessarily indicate some nefarious plot by blacks. It might just mean more hispanics and whites are applying and/or the application process needs to be revamped.

[easeltine]

Sure, and in Los Angeles Hispanics do not beg as much, so maybe they don't have the Housing because they don't ask for the Housing.
I'm just stating that the 4.95% figure originally quoted is probably true.

There are also figures that show that 10.4% of all African-American Males are currently in prison.

[stage director]

I'm just stating that the 4.95% figure originally quoted is probably true.

4.95% or 95% ?

[easeltine]

Oh, LOL! he said 95%! The 4. was his 4th point - duh me!

That is just more Cowsh*t....and he got me to step in it this time.

[stage director]

I can accept the 4.95. It might be even higher for all I know? What I don't believe is that 95% of all blacks live in taxpayer paid housing. That only 5% of blacks pay their own rent or mortgage.