The Christians response to those that reject God

[dodge]

Oh, and Easeltine, I have no illusion that there will ever be a “utopian society.” That’s more of a Christian ideal, where “the faithful” believe that their Jesus is going to descend from the sky in the future (the “second coming”) to create the kingdom of God on Earth. “Collective salvation,” as well as a “human paradise,” is unattainable.

I believe in facing reality. The reality of human nature. Utopian dreams remove us from reality. As Chris Hedges wrote in I Don’t Believe in Atheists, “All the signs in our present world point to a coming anarchy, a massive dislocation of populations resulting from ecological devastation and climate change, multiple pollutions, the weight of over-population and wars fought over dwindling natural resources.”

Are you ready to face this reality without a delusional belief in a supernatural being who will arrive in the nick of time to save us? I am.

[turtle]

Get off your rocker dodge and realize something first of all true Christians and people of other faiths are in general very tolerant, knowing they too were once seep in sin. However the right wing groups that go by religious law in the since of forcing all to think as they do are the ones that there is a problem. Nazism, communism(atheist) and so forth. Chrstians look at each person being a person that can be saved. For Christ came to redeem those that were lost. Not those that were saved. To seek those that were not His own. Now with this said. Dodge ministers and teachers of faith usually in general are tolerant people, however that are groups that form that are not of God, but think of themselves as God and when they rise up for example David Koresh or Jim Jones. then beware. It is dangerous. Now I am sorry about this fact, but it is true, their goaled is to control people. Most religious people I know do not control people. A cult or occult is one that is controlling. What happens in a normal church is people attend two to three times a week unless of work and then they attend or try and attend at least one service. Usually, no one calls you unless it is a small church to check on your well being unless you are old, disables or are known to be sick. Usually the pastor has time for other people in the community to at least make contacts. However some weeks it all about studying and preparing for weeks ahead when one has no time to study because of weddings, funerals, hospital calls and so forth. Usually a pastor never sees a soul unless they are busy witnessing.

So what is this idea that you think you have to have control over others especially on this board. See some people have oodles of time and others have no time. Meaning to even get a clergy on this board would be amazing for any length of time. So if you experience a church with control you are in the wrong church. A church is there to help you, not to controll you.

[easeltine]

Will,

I was brought up pretty strongly against Communism. It was also anchored into me that Communism = Atheism = Anti-God, Anti-Christianity. It is not only Far-Right ideas, but the First Inaugual Speech of John F. Kennedy, (not to mention his opponent at the time, V.P. Nixon).

I have to admit that currently Extreme Islam is more dangerous than Communist China from my perspective. ...and deep down you know that the Far Right is much less of a threat to all of us than Extreme Islam.

It is a little off the subject, but President Kennedy and Nixon first both debated each other when they were 31 years old as Representatives. They even shared the same cabin in the train on the way back from the 1st debate. If one visits the Nixon Library they will see a signed autographed book, "Profiles in Courage," with the words, "To my good friend Dick, From Jack Kennedy." It sure isn't like that now in politics.

[stage director]

But atheism is a religion in itself. Any system of belief that argues it's validity or superiority, and/or seeks converts, is by definition a religion.

[dodge]

Hello “stage director” -- If atheism is a religion then sanity is a mental illness, bald is a hair color, and not playing baseball is a sport.

[turtle]

Atheism in a religion, just not based on any God, but themselves. Meaning they believe they are the only superior life form in the universe and anything that believes differently is less superior then themselves. Proof every time my threads get deleted or anytime dodge decides my points are irrevelatant because he does not understand. Doesn't mean someone else does not understand. He feel he superior to all life on this board.

[dodge]

Turtle -- the definition of religion is a belief in and worship of a supernatural entity, a personal God or gods, and usually involves devotional and ritual observances. Atheism is the rejection of the existence of God or gods, the word itself meaning “without god.” It is the direct opposite of “theist,” meaning one who believes in the existence of a God or gods.

To say that atheism is a religion is to misunderstand and misuse the English language. Of course, this is what you do on a daily basis.

[turtle]

Religion
RELIGION, n. relij'on. [L. religio, from religo, to bind anew; re and ligo, to bind. This word seems originally to have signified an oath or vow to the gods, or the obligation of such an oath or vow, which was held very sacred by the Romans.]

1. Religion, in its most comprehensive sense, includes a belief in the being and perfections of God, in the revelation of his will to man, in man's obligation to obey his commands, in a state of reward and punishment, and in man's accountableness to God; and also true godliness or piety of life, with the practice of all moral duties. It therefore comprehends theology, as a system of doctrines or principles, as well as practical piety; for the practice of moral duties without a belief in a divine lawgiver, and without reference to his will or commands, is not religion.

2. Religion, as distinct from theology, is godliness or real piety in practice, consisting in the performance of all known duties to God and our fellow men, in obedience to divine command, or from love to God and his law. James 1.

3. Religion, as distinct from virtue, or morality, consists in the performance of the duties we owe directly to God, from a principle of obedience to his will. Hence we often speak of religion and virtue, as different branches of one system, or the duties of the first and second tables of the law.

Let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religion.

4. Any system of faith and worship. In this sense, religion comprehends the belief and worship of pagans and Mohammedans, as well as of christians; any religion consisting in the belief of a superior power or powers governing the world, and in the worship of such power or powers. Thus we speak of the religion of the Turks, of the Hindoos, of the Indians, &c. as well as of the christian religion. We speak of false religion, as well as of true religion.

5. The rites of religion; in the plural.



Dodge from the webster dictionary.

However do you not worship yourself. If you are first and foremost in your life and protection and what best for you, is that not worship of self. Worship of self love. Yes dodge you adore yourself. I adore God almight. Atheist adore themselves and care for themselves before others, even if they help themselves

Atheistic
ATHEIST'IC,

ATHEIST'ICAL, a.

1. Pertaining to atheism.

2. Disbelieving the existence of a God; impious, applied to persons; as, an atheistic writer.

3. Implying or containing atheism; applied to things, as, atheistic doctrines or opinions.


Also for your education dodge the definition of impiously(devil like qualities.)
Impiously
IM'PIOUSLY, adv. With irreverence for God, or contempt for his authority; profanely; wickedly.

[dodge]

No, Turtle, I don’t worship myself. That’s another religious word, having to do with reverence and adoration for a “god.” I am not ardently devoted to myself, nor do I adore myself. You keep projecting religious ideas onto people who have no belief in religion, thus demonstrating that you have a very limited understanding of the meaning of words. You are very confused and challenged on many levels.

[turtle]

No dodge, for a christian if you do not have Christ in the center of your life you are bowing to other idols. For a Christian a person that is Christ centered, Christ is above all things in his life. Comes before anyone or anything else, however it does not mean you do not do things or help people. Why because it simple. To be Christ center is to love others as yourself. To love God is to obey God. Following the golden rule and loving your neighbor has yourself. Yourself, you will sacrifice your life to help another. Is there acceptions, ask fire departments, squads, doctors and nurses. There are times you know there nothing more you can do to help someone so you leave them be. Unless God says to do something else.

[dodge]

Turtle -- Your talking to an atheist, one who has no belief in God or gods. I don’t bow to any idols.

Your hypocritical, Turtle. You say that to be a Christian is to follow the “golden rule,” to love your neighbor as yourself, yet just in the last few posts you’ve accused me of thinking that I’m “superior to all life on this board,” of “worshipping myself,” of “adoring myself,” and of “caring for myself above others.” Somewhat judgmental, isn’t it?

Didn’t the imaginary supernatural being that you call “Jesus the Christ” teach you to love your enemies, to bless them that curse you, to do good to them that hate you, and to pray for them that despitefully use you and persecute you? I don’t see much of that coming from you…or for that matter anyone else here that calls themselves “Christian.”

Did you know that the “golden rule” was not invented by the mythical Jesus the Christ? Buddha taught his disciples to “treat not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful” five hundred years BC. About the same time, Confucius taught his followers “do not unto others that you would not have them do unto you.”

There’s nothing original in your Bible. It’s just a compilation in written form of oral traditions, folk tales, morality lessons, and a lot of fire and brimstone rhetoric about the horrors that will befall those who don’t obey. You are amongst the biblically indoctrinated who think that your book is a special message to you from a supernatural being. It’s brainwashed you into actually believing that there was a man who lived a long time ago who walked on water, raised the dead, magically turned water into wine, and his mother was a virgin…and that those who don’t believe what you do will be tossed into a bottomless pit and a lake of fire.

As George Carlin said:

When it comes to bull****, big-time, major league bull****, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest bull**** story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bull**** story. Holy ****!

(Copyright 1999 by George Carlin. Printed without permission.)

[turtle]

Dodge first of all I do not take money for ministry. Second, I run a small ministry, though it my own site, to share the Gospel and to encourage others to read scripture and to study on their own. I take no money for my ministry. Now dodge. I am not the only one out their that does that type of work. Many people share daily. Organize religion ask and collect money to help with big projects like feeding the poor and the needy, to helping the community in some way. These projects also sometimes fund the people's salary that administer the projects as well as the leaders in org. After all if you organize a big project to help others and it takes most of your time you should be paid. Fund raising tactics are a part of the projects to get others involved. However only thing I ask when I share my ministry is if it blesses a person that they find someone to help. Care for someone else. It in a since it is only a reminder what humanity should be doing anyway. Some can do a lot and some can only do a little. There many people out there that do what I do. However what you are use to is the show that belongs not in a church. There many groups of Christians that never do the big fund raising projects that many big names do and there seems to be plenty of money to support their group, their leaders and their projects and some do not do it full time and never take a dime for themselves and never beg. Rich people are accustom to fund raisers and gimmicks so that what they donated is done in a fun way and it has filtered into some churches. Giving should always be done freely not for what you gain from it. However to raise money sometimes for long short time goals can be fun, and be a tool for outreach. If you hold concert someone that is charts or at least has local interest, then money being raised is used for charitable events. All groups in society does it these days. Nothing wrong with it.

Dodge it is where funds are being collected no one likes when nothing is happening with it but to pay for someone spa treatments. That is problem.

However dodge at least what I put on the board as definition of atheistic seems to define your attitude on this board. Every time I turn around all you can do is insult or bring me down. You don't have to pat me on the back to disagree/agree with me, however you do not have to insult, to demoralize a person especially on other threads.
We all loose are cool on these boards occasionally that normal. But to do it constantly is abuse.

Factnet is about stopping abuse, yet these boards sometimes are more abusive then they should be. Everyone is abusive at sometime in life, everyone loose there cool with people. However the constant insults are not benefitting to these boards. Especially considering these boards are suppose to be about abuse and they become the abuser. If you going to be atheist here, you need to consider to learn a little compassion, however the definition of atheistic is impiouly which is devilish. What is devilish, but evil, causing harm to someone or themselves. Many people that experience abuse act it out without knowing it with their attitudes. If this board is going to help people then the abuse as to stop. Those in leadership on these boards can not be the abusers. They need to be of better character.


This thread is about Christian response to those that reject God. I think sometimes those in opposition to christianity feel our constant scripture is abusive, but others it like honey, it like medicine for soul. Atheist are not required to read scripture dodge, but if the subject is up to it then yes it should be discussed. However christianity can not be discussed without scripture in the since of abuse. Abusive churches often twist scripture. One way of dealing with that type of abuse is show the truth of what scripture says based on other passage in scripture. Because Bible from cover to cover is solid on what God says and what God says is not abusive.

Five an example of abuse is demanding people to pay for something they can not afford. To demand money from people that are needing help. Most cult victims have no money, to move, to change there situation, so money got to be raised. Easy source is church groups, organization, as well as famouse people banding together to help support those in abusive situations.Government can be involved as well like the welfare department. Helping in relocation of abuse like children, adults, but in truth an org that does it can help a person with jobs and so forth as well as sponsering a person to get back on their feet after a situation. However does factnet do it, I have no clue.

[dodge]

Turtle -- What you perceive as “abuse” from me is frustration at your persistent misunderstanding, misinterpretation, ignorance, and inability to express yourself clearly.

It is my position that you are irrational and have been brainwashed through biblical indoctrination if you believe the mythical tales that are in the Bible are true. It seems you actually believe that there was a man who lived a couple thousand years ago who’s mother was a virgin and who’s father was a supernatural being; and who was able to bring sight back to the blind, heal leprosy, resurrect the dead, turn water into wine, walk on water, exorcise demons, and control the weather. He's the Christian Magic Man.

And that was only in the New Testament. I assume you also believe the mythological stories in the Old Testament are true also, starting with the biggest magic trick ever, an invisible supernatural being creating the universe and everything in it less than ten thousand years ago from nothing; and then making a man from dust, and a woman from one of his ribs. Then there’s the talking snake of course, and the forbidden fruit from the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil," that "god" told them would kill them if they ate it. Turns out, by the way, that "god" was lying; because Adam and Eve did take a bite of that juicy fruit and they didn't die. All it did was make them aware that they were naked.

There’s a lot of magic tricks recorded in the Bible, particularly from “Aaron’s Rod,” that turned into a snake that gobbled up other rods that had been turned into snakes, and turned a river into blood. That was a powerful rod, sort of like a magician’s wand. Aaron used it to cause an attack of frogs, an attack of lice, manifest swarms of flies, and locusts. Moses, with a magic rod, parted the Red Sea, and brought water from rocks. With their long hair and beards, wearing robes and carrying a magic stick, they sound like wizards. I wonder if that’s were the character of Merlin came from?

There were also magic horns, like the ones that toppled the walls of Jericho. Now that was a neat trick!

The supernatural being that protected the ancient Israelites, who I’m sure you worship as your “god” too, caused a lot of damage, killed a lot of people when he flew into rages, seemingly out of control (known as the Wrath of God that cometh on the children of disobedience and against all ungodliness and unrighteousness). It usually meant death and destruction to anyone who got in their way.

Of course, the biggest mass murder that the supernatural being of the Old Testament engaged in was when he decided to kill every man, woman, and child, sparing only Noah and his family, by flooding the world. This “god” looked at what people were doing and said, “Whoops, I made a mistake, I’m sorry I created them.” So instead of magically transforming the people of the Earth into being better, he decides he’ll kill them all instead and start from scratch. What was that, like twenty million people? Pretty sadistic.

Then there was Sodom and Gomorrah, destroyed by a rain of fire and brimstone “from the Lord out of heaven.” What was the population, a thousand or more, burnt to death by a rain of burning sulfur? Why? They were having too much fun! The “angels” that were sent to destroy the cities told Lot that it was because “the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the Lord.” They were hedonistic, enjoyed good food and were idle. Whoops, the supernatural being that created them made another mistake; so it’s time to kill them all horribly. Seesm to be a pattern. Couldn’t he have just made them all have heart attacks instead of incinerating every man, woman, and child with burning sulfur falling from the sky? Why the need for such carnage? I think none of this had to do with a “god,” it was more of a projection coming from the writers who made up this mythological story, filled with anger and violence against those who didn’t believe what they did. They were all in their way; so get rid of them. Of course, without a doubt, none of that actually happened. These are stories designed to instill fear and wonder into the minds of those who read it. That’s all. Control is at the heart of these cautionary tales.

The fact that you and those like you actually believe that these are historically accurate events is due to biblical indoctrination that has compromised your intellectual capacity to distinguish between myth and reality. To firmly believe something that is contrary to reason and fact is delusional. You might call it “faith,” I call it fantasy. It's dangerous because it results in a belief that anyone who doesn't see things the way you do are destined to be horribly punished in some sort of burning sulfuric bottomless pit or fiery lake. It's the theme throughout the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation. You believers will live forever in bliss, we unbelievers will be tortured in Hell and then in the end tossed into the cosmic incinerator to be completely destroyed.

No thank you, I don't need religion.

[turtle]

No dodge I believe not because of just the Bible, I believe because when no one, no other solution came God did the impossible. I believe that today. YOu have a train running down the tracks at fifty miles hour and your vehicle just stalled there, And most people die. I lived to tell it. I came home in five days in the hospital. That is God. In fact I should be dead on more then one occasion. However God has chosen more then once to spare me. However next time it might be my time to go. If it is then it is God's will. Until that time, I might face a dozen other major storms in my life, just like the next person, the difference is one if they know God knows the Rescuer's name. His name is Jesus, how wonderful is that name.

You however may have all the wealth, but I dare say you don't know what it like to trust in someone that will never ever fail you, no matter what comes. What tragedy and so forth. Or sit on ocean beach and look at the waves roll and feel the Spirit of God speak of better things yet to come. Oh yeah I don't know much about oceans only been once. However I know what is to sit by a stream and know the power of God to reasure you that all will be okay, or the awesomness of just being in His glorious presence in worship and seeing his creation all around.

[dodge]

Are you saying you were in a stalled car that was sitting on top of some railroad tracks, and a train hit you going fifty miles an hour? How in hell did that happen, and why didn’t you get out of the car? Was this a suicide attempt?

Did you receive a serious head trauma in that incident. The reason I ask is that it would explain a lot.

Just because you survived, it doesn’t mean that a “god” saved you. You were “lucky,” though you would have been a lot luckier if a “god” whispered in your ear and told you to get the hell out of that car before it was hit by a train.

You know, Turtle, all this religious rhetoric about the “spirit of God speaking of better things to come,” and sitting by a stream being “reassured by God that everything is going to be okay,” and “being in His glorious presence in worship” is nothing more than you talking to yourself. You do realize that those thoughts are coming from you, right? You don’t actually hear voices inside your head that you attribute to supernatural agents, do you? Or are you telling me you think you hear the actual voice of “god” speaking to you personally?

[turtle]

dodge when there is no evidence of someone coming by and stranger stops in, yet before that stranger comes, God happen to tell you that person was coming, that is God. It not wishful thinking, it is God if it happens for a purpose. Sometimes the power of God does things you would not understand but the purpose is always to spread the gospel. Let me give a Bible example Peter and Cornelius. I know for a fact this can happen. And when it happens it is for the spread of the Gospel.

Acts 10:1-34 KJV
(1) There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
(2) A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
(3) He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.
(4) And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.
(5) And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter:
(6) He lodgeth with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do.
(7) And when the angel which spake unto Cornelius was departed, he called two of his household servants, and a devout soldier of them that waited on him continually;
(8) And when he had declared all these things unto them, he sent them to Joppa.
(9) On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:
(10) And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
(11) And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
(12) Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
(13) And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
(14) But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
(15) And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
(16) This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.
(17) Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,
(18) And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there.
(19) While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.
(20) Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.
(21) Then Peter went down to the men which were sent unto him from Cornelius; and said, Behold, I am he whom ye seek: what is the cause wherefore ye are come?
(22) And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.
(23) Then called he them in, and lodged them. And on the morrow Peter went away with them, and certain brethren from Joppa accompanied him.
(24) And the morrow after they entered into Caesarea. And Cornelius waited for them, and had called together his kinsmen and near friends.
(25) And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.
(26) But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.
(27) And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together.
(28) And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
(29) Therefore came I unto you without gainsaying, as soon as I was sent for: I ask therefore for what intent ye have sent for me?
(30) And Cornelius said, Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and, behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing,
(31) And said, Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thine alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God.
(32) Send therefore to Joppa, and call hither Simon, whose surname is Peter; he is lodged in the house of one Simon a tanner by the sea side: who, when he cometh, shall speak unto thee.
(33) Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God.
(34) Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:


Dodge just because you have not witness this or maybe you have. See dodge stranger then fiction I still talking to you after all you said why. It is not because I like you.

[dodge]

Again, what in hell are you talking about? You wrote “There is no evidence of someone coming by and stranger stops in, yet before that stranger comes, God happens to tell you that person was coming.” Huh?

It seems you’re saying that you believe God told you that a stranger was coming, and that stranger showed up. What possible relevance does this story have?

Then you copy and paste a bunch of scripture that contains the story of Peter and Cornelius for some reason. I’m not sure, but are you using this in an attempt to “convert” me to Christianity? Am I Cornelius to your Peter?

You really are delusional.

[turtle]

Dodge the fact is you convinced there is no God with no proof there is no God What proof do you have there is not a superior being? Just because you can't see Him does not mean He does not exist. After all dodge. Now to explain The example of Cornelius and Peter is that Peter was told by God about the strangers coming. Cornelius sent for Peter with word from God to do so. Both were religious men, neight had a way to wire, telephone, or telegraph communication, Yet Cornelius sent men to get Peter and bring him to him, because he was a man of authority. He live in a different town and was not a jew by nation, but by faith. Now with this in mind. The point is God ability to send aid to send help by total strangers with the name to find. It does happen though it seems strange. It happens today. If you ever have God move in your life, you would know, however you insist God does not exist based on evidence you can not prove or disprove.

[dodge]

Turtle -- Your comment that I can’t prove that God doesn’t exist is a commonly heard argument from creationists. It’s an attempt to shift the burden of proof. I could say the same thing about any mythological being, like “you can’t prove that leprechauns (or elves, faeries, goblins, ogres, gnomes) don’t exist.” Does that mean they do exist? No. You can't prove that there isn't a 1946 Buick orbiting around the fourth planet in the Proxima Centauri system.

In the case of Peter and Cornelius, you’re citing an imaginary story from the Bible as if it were an account of actual events. You seem to have a hard time distinguishing myth from reality. It’s a common condition amongst you bibleheads.

[turtle]

dodge besides a million dollars is there something I and others can pray to the God you call imaginery for? I talking about a serious need besides the obvious your heart to be open. No second thought don't tell me. I just ask that you keep it in your head and not to repeat it. However if it is impossibility but it something legit, would admit that it was God No I think not. See I already know people are praying. So don't ask me to prove God. Ask God to prove hsi existence to you if you are so sure He does not exist. After you seem to enjoy talking to gnomes and fairies. Sorry dodge sorry but I do not have time to talk much I been to busy working on my website, got a card section even you probably like a little. However I doubt you look at it so I have not asked you too.

However dodge you seem to like listening to my recordings of me speaking. Cause you asked question concerning this weeks Lifting of the serpent and the lifting of the Son of Man. I been going through the book of John and chapter 3 was next. However Nicodemus was already done. It was done prior and earlier work.

So now dodge. once I post on Sunday or late Saturday most have figured that out. That you running behind. Who knows maybe you don't listen, it matters not to me. I figure if you that crazy to listen you know I don't believe in gnomes. I don't even have one, I doubt if I would, but I know some people that would enjoy them.