Save the Seed Ministry

[Anonymous]

Problems abound for ministry
by Jay Friess
Staff Writer
May 17, 2002

WALDORF -- Save the Seed Ministry of Waldorf, a nationally recognized television ministry and drug treatment program, is in serious financial trouble and deeply split by divisions within the church.

The ministry, created by Robert "Dr. Shine" Freeman, has court judgments against it totaling more than $900,000. In addition, Freeman admitted that he bounced a check for more than $1,800.+++

"He's been a con man for years," said former assistant pastor Roy Bowman.+++

Last month, Bowman wrote a letter to several area pastors and Freeman's mentor, nationally recognized preacher Kenneth Copeland, calling the ministry a "cult." He charged that the church was fiscally irresponsible, said it no longer treated the men in its care, and claimed six counts of adultery between Freeman and wives of the men working for him, including Bowman's wife.+++

"They are mad at me because I preach Prosperity Gospel," he added. "They [are] mad because they ain't going to the next level with me."

Prosperity Gospel -- or Word/Faith, as taught by Freeman's mentor Copeland -- teaches that if one has faith in God and visualizes what he or she wants, God will grant them the material possessions of their desire. It is also known as the "Name-It-and-Claim-It" gospel by its critics, who say it conflicts with the Timothy's admonition that "the love of money is the root of all evil."+++

Small part of http://www.gazette.net/200220/weeken.../105333-1.html

[Anonymous]

AS A FORMER MEMBER OF SAVE THE SEED MINISTRY IN 1995-98, I AM FULLY AWARE OF THE MISREPRESENTATION OF THE PROGRAM. I CAME INTO THE PROGRAM WITH FAITH AND GREAT EXPECTATION OF THE WORK THAT THE PROGRAM WAS NOTED FOR. WHEN I LEFT THE PROGRAM, MY FAITH WAS SHATTERED AND I FOUND MYSELF ANGRY AT GOD ALLOWING THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED IN THE PROGRAM TO TAKE PLACE. I COULD NOT UNDERSTAND HOW GOD COULD ALLOW A MINISTER TO DO THE THINGS THAT WERE DONE. I AM SO GLAD THAT OTHERS HAVE GONE PUBLIC WITH THE MSIREPRESENTATION OF THE SAVE THE SEED MINISTRY WITH HOPES THAT SOMETHING WILL NOW BE DONE. IF IT HAD NOT BEEN FOR A FEW SINCERE PEOPLE INVOLVED WITH THE MINISTRY, I WOULD MORE THAN LIKELY STILL BE LOST.

[Mary Thomas (205.188.116.211)]

Warning to All! Be careful of what you hear. People who dont understand or dont know the Lord are quick to slander His people. Judge the spirit by the spirit and don't let others make quick judgements for you. People are quick to lie but God's word is true.

[Dianne McNair (64.12.116.66)]

I usually don't post opinions, but feel led to do it now. Anyone gleefully awaiting a "knife-cutting ceremony" will be disappointed with my comment, for it lends to the positive. First let me announce that I am a believer who became lax in my walk with Christ -- yet all the while a nagging spirit to "come back home to Christ" hovered over my every departure from "The Way." Then one Sunday I had an occasion to visit the Save the Seed Church in Waldorf, followed by a Kenneth Copeland Believers Conference with one of the Save the Seed ministers that same weekend. That visit began my turning point to rededicate my life and heart to Christ, and I did so publicly at the Copeland Believers Conference. Save the Seed preaches and teaches. After hearing The Word at Save the Seed and the Believers Conference, that "come back spirit" began to cut away the mindset of indifference and the disappointments in my world that allowed me to forget "Whose I Am" in the first place. I also was present at an after-church Save the Seed mentoring session which included an open discussion on internal matters. The members freely shared their concerns with their Pastor, and he responded in ways that put the matters to rest and did so with obvious love and care for his people. In Save the Seed Ministry there is a mission to lift up the lost and the wayward, and to strengthen the people in their knowledge of God and Christ. Don't be too swift to judge, lest ye yourselves be judged by same measure. Remember that David (in the Bible) was prone to certain sins, yet God said he was a "man after His (God's) own heart." Not only because he repented greatly, but also because he truly sought after God and wanted to please Him. He worshipped God in Spirit and in Truth. God knew the heart of the man David. And God CHOSE David. No apostle, pastor, prophet, evangelist, or teacher is called or chosen by man. God alone calls...deep calls unto deep. No one is perfect, says the Word of God. Yet, even when the Perfect One was among us -- He, too, was woefully slandered and worse done to Him at the hands of the Pharisees. So who are you, or you, or you, or me, to judge ANY man? God raises men and women up; and God blesses the work that they do. If they fail, as Saul did, then God will remove His favor from them. It is not our place to judge. We are not qualified. Thank you for the space to air my view.

[Anonymous (151.196.172.245)]

I was just looking for the address of the church. I was shocked to find such slanderous comments. The testimony of the Freeman's and the Copeland's suggest to me that an anointing rest on these ministries.They both credit God alone for pulling them up from nothing and using them to bless the lives of others. Their track records speak louder than these accusations. Now I really look forward to visiting the church because The Word also says that satan is the accuser of the brethren.

[Anonymous (152.163.252.129)]

Not all comments were slanderous. There are two messages above your comment that do not bring accusation. Those that do speak against anyone's work in the Kingdom should examine their hearts and ask the question: "What is your true motive?"

[Robert Clifford (24.177.23.150)]

If you don't have nothing nice or a word of encourgement for the Save The Seed Ministry don't say nothing at all because you are judging your self, the ministry has helped many people and today I can say that the Save the Seed Ministry is a great place to worship, Dr.Shine & Dr.Dee Dee has done and will contiue to do what that Lord has told them to do and if you don't like oh well because GOD has the final say over EVERY THING!

[Anonymous (64.83.38.63)]

To all of you who have comments concerning "Save the Seed, Ministry",let me tell you that it is a cult and they worship Dr. Shine. No one has truly been delivered for years under his worldly philosophy. Check the facts, the ministry does not have the anointing of God upon it because it is not propering, but how can it when they worship a man.

Ask yourself the following:

Why so much controversy?
Why did they lose there building?
Why do they beg for so much money as oppose to allowing God to speak to the peoples hearts' instead of being manipulated into giving what they do not have?
Why are so many who were (supposedly) delivered back on drugs?
Why did an assistant pastor tell the world about the adulterous Dr. Shine?

The list could go on!

If you have an ear the Spirit will speak the truth to you.

Avoid Dr. Shine and his ministry at all cost. It will be fatal to your spiritual health.

[Dianne McNair (205.188.117.20)]

I am writing to remind us that this Board is for the sharing of the experience people have had under this ministry. I am certain it should not be used to contact others who have posted their experience, and attack them for what they wrote.

I had the displeasure of receiving several e-mails in which I was shown hostility, berated and disrespected because my post was different. In the very first e-mail I was called ignorant, stupid and a fool, and people like me allow Jim Jones types to flourish in their evil rule over their followers.

The following e-mails also suggested that I was part of the Shine conspiracy, that the FBI would be notified of me and I would be jailed, that I should sleep with this minister (Dr. Shine), that I should shut up because I don't know what I am talking about, and then finally, I should get laid.

Each time I responded saying that yes, my experience was different, but that I should not be attacked because of it. I never disputed what this writer or others have said about this church. Each returning e-mail from this writer was filled with insults, to the point I could tell the writer never really read my replies.

When I was accused of being tied in with that church, I assured the writer that I was not, but I happened to have a chance to visit there with a friend 2 years ago. When I shared information about myself, and that I support my daughter's new church and am a supporting member of another church (where we all used to worship before she stepped into her ministry, as associate pastor first, then pastor).

Guess what this writer wrote back? That they would make sure no one ever attended either one of the churches (I didn't even name them...how can the writer tell anyone not to attend if the name/address of the church was never given???). I was accused of showing no compassion or love, then they had the nerve to quote scripture (We will know them by their fruits).

It's funny how people use scripture when it is convenient for them and serves their own purpose. I replied "What fruit did you show me in your first, 2nd, 3rd,4th,5th,6th and 7th e-mail??? And I reminded the writer of every insult given me in their e-mails. I stated that their FIRST e-mail opened up with name-calling and insults directed at me -- as if my story somehow offended them. Then I reminded the writer that every e-mail that followed was belligerant, disrespectful, presumptuous and insulting to me, personally. They could not stick to the topic, just focused on attacking my every response. The writer even taunted me asking if the same had happened to my daughter would I be one of those people who cry "Lawd, Lawd, and wait for Him to fix it." I replied what action I would have taken, and the writer wrote back "YAWNING." Then I asked "Who gave you permission to burst into my world uninvited and proceeded to hurl names and insults to me??? I wrote that I really thought this would be a healthy and enlightening exchange, since the writer took the liberty of contacting me about my comment on the Board.

Instead, the whole exchange was so futile, fruitless, mean-spirited and the comments so senseless (I should sleep with that minister??!!)that it began to irritate and tire me.

So, after the 7th sarcastic e-mail from this person, I responded to their sexual advice and other low-minded comments and told the person this would be the last round and "We R Done."
Then I blocked the person from my e-mail so I cannot be contacted again. This episode took on the likeness of harrassment, so I filed the e-mails for future reference if ever needed.

People, I have read with shock and dismay the experiences you have shared. Even though the experience that I had served me differently, I am truly shocked and saddened to read the other entries. Finally, if you take the liberty of contacting someone to disagree with them on a topic, do it with decency and order.

[Dianne McNair (205.188.117.20)]

Because of my comment regarding a positive experience I had when I visited Save the Seed Church, I had the displeasure of receiving 12 -- yes, counted them -- TWELVE insulting e-mails from a woman who accused me of being part of a "Shine Conspiracy." She even suggested that I am sleeping with the minister, and called me a fool, ignorant, and stupid among many other insulting things. Each time I replied to her assumptions, she returned a hail of verbal attacks on my intelligence, my church affiliation (I am not a member of Save the Seed) and promised that she would see to it that no one attended either my church or the church my daughter now pastors. How intelligent a remark was that??? She doesn't even know the name/address of either church.

She accused me of showing no compassion or love (for her???) I never had the chance to show any understanding. I was too busy catching her insults and trying to set the record straight regarding her very wrong assumptions about me.

She even quoted scripture (We will know them by their fruits). I asked her what fruits did she show me in all 12 of her e-mails, and reminded her of the unkind, low-minded remarks and stones she threw at me in her e-mails. Funny how people are quick to quote scripture when it suits their purpose.

I have revisited this site, only to be dismayed at the additional postings I saw. I do not dispute any of these reports, and my heart is saddened to learn of these things. But still, my experience happened to serve to my spiritual benefit -- I was at a point where I was ready to rededicate my life to Christ. Already know about Him. It was time to walk in what I know and seek that relationship with Him. You know...make Him REAL in my life. So between that visit and the Ken Copeland Believers Conference I made that step. And returned to MY Church.

To be berated and insulted just because my experience had no grief??? Because I happened to see something positive on my visit? Because I gave a testimony??? Threatened with FBI investigation??? To say that I should "get...?" (you fill in the blank).

I finally gave up. Filed the e-mails and BLOCKED her e-mails from coming to me anymore.

If anyone would like to contact another person to agree or disagree, do it with decency and order.

[Anonymous (68.50.91.198)]

Stop lying on that "Anonymous" person Dianne McNair. Regardless of what may have happened, it should not have taken please between you and this other person, you're being lower than they are by placing it in this public posting area. This space is regarding some serious issues with a cult leader, not for you to attack someone regarding their experiences (regardless of whether you had contact with them or not). It sounds like you have the problem, not this other individual. I don't see her talking about you....

Spend some time researching different issues before attacking someone or talking about someone. There are always two sides to every story. It seems to me, in my opinion, that you're simply upset because a minister whom you thought was real, wasn't and you're lashing out without knowing it.

Check this site out and then think about it a little bit.

http://www.gazette.net/200220/weeken.../105333-1.html

But please keep other readers out of your personal conflicts. If you are a prayerful person, then take it to God in prayer. Be mature about it, not deceitful. Thank you.

[Dianne McNair (205.188.117.20)]

I am not lying on this Anonymous Person. I have the e-mails to prove it.

You are probably the one I wrote about - guilty of stepping outside of protocol and sending the nasty e-mails.

Rather than give more life to you and what YOU represent, I will just BIND UP AND CAST DOWN EVERY EVIL SPIRIT AND IMP SENT FROM HELL, IN THE NAME OF JESUS.

You want me to keep others out of personal conflicts? I have no personal conflict. This person wanted to establish one.

Once it was clear that no ground for reasoning could be found, I shut it down.

Remind yourself that Satan does his work in the secrecy of darkness. God's people are people of light. Are you having a problem with someone's misdeeds being brought to light?? Don't try to protect or otherwise uphold what Anonymous did. It was wrong. Period.

At least you had the sense to post a related comment on this board. It is a PUBLIC Board, and I will not be badgered by you or anyone for having a positive story to relate. Nor will I be pushed into silence when good words/works are trashed.

Make this YOUR last effort to address me on any matter. YOU do not have the last word in life and its circumstances. Neither do I.

emember, Every tongue that rises up against a believer, God will condemn.

Remember also to judge NOT, lest ye be judged also by the same measure.

[Dianne McNair (205.188.117.20)]

Lying?? I have the nasty e-mails to prove it. Where is your proof that I am lying?? If this is a PUBLIC message board, it did not say "Only Bad Reports Will Be Accepted." Although I've heard some things about this church, I just wanted to share a good experience. It was MY story and MY testimony. Weeks later, this "Anonymous Person" contacted me directly by my e-mail address and hurled 12 nasty e-mails at me because of it.

Regarding me bringing Anonymous' actions to this Public Board -- Don't speak too quickly of maturity, for you yourself have just put yourself on this public page to challenge me about what happened with this person. So why did you contribute your opinion on it?? and Yes, I HAVE visited the webpages, already said I was shocked and saddened to read the reports. But it does not change the experience I had.

As for your comment on being deceitful?? Satan does things in the secrecy of darkness. THAT is deceitful. I simply brought it to light. That is not deceitful, that is UP-FRONT and OUT THERE for you to see. What Anonymous did was WRONG. PERIOD. Had no right to shred my positive comments and toss them through my e-mail door. Their experience was not my experience, and no one can rewrite it.

Why would you protect or otherwise uphold what that person did, then tell me I was lower because I brought it to light. True, Satan doesn't like to be uncovered in his works. So RIGHT NOW WHILE THE FLAME OF LIGHT IS BRIGHT, IN THE NAME OF JESUS I BIND UP AND CAST DOWN EVERY EVIL SPIRIT AND IMP SENT FROM HELL TO ACCUSE THE BODY OF CHRIST.

"Every tongue that rises up against you (the believer) God will condemn."

"Judge NOT, lest ye yourselves be judged by the same measure (which you used to judge another)"

Whoever you are, leave it alone. This board was not meant to become a Dear Abby column with personal exchanges between the writers. Nor was it set up so that writers could send personal messages to each other about their comments. Nor was it meant to be used to contact other writers directly through e-mail to harrass them. THAT was the purpose of me telling what Anonymous did and to remind us all that this is not the purpose for this Board.

The first time I typed in this entry, it went through but did not show up. So, to ensure that you know I saw and appreciate what you wrote, I am re-entering this.

[Anonymous (68.50.91.198)]

The only demon that I see is Dianne McNair. Your scribble is all over this message board. Why you so upset and why you got so much time to type all of that stuff? Sounds like you allowed the devil to set you up and you fell for it just like you fell for Robert "Shine" Freeman.

I admire Anonymous' courage for sharing her experience and to be able to warn others with proof of evidence from a public newspaper that the facts are true. She is standing regardless of your outrageous burst of rage and stupidity. If you don't stand for something, then you will fall for anything. Like you just did. You're the only one that is demonically manifesting on this message board. I'm glad she wrote it and I'm taking her advice seriously!

Thank you Anonymous!

[Dianne McNair (205.188.117.20)]

Foolish people! I'm not complaining about the story Anonymous wrote, my complaint is with the intrusion into my e-mail by someone who disrespected my experience at that church. You who cannot see that, are unwilling to direct your attention to the unwanted e-mail from that person -- whoever it is.

You are not worth my further efforts to point to the unkindness of those E-MAILS. I AM NOT DISPUTING HER STORY, NEVER DID. I took issue with her unkind gesture to me because I shared my experience. You keep missing that. You are looking for a fire to burn, but I am not your wood.

The demons are within you, and I will have no further communication with those of you who want twist the focus and ignore the fact that one of your own is at fault. I DO TAKE A STAND, DID, AND ALWAYS WILL.

Your convoluted theory does not wax. To find fault in a victim of nasty e-mail who let it be known is totally ludicrous. You are the one who is stupid - you keep missing the point. You just don't get it.

SOMEONE ALREADY SAID THIS BOARD IS NOT FOR THIS TYPE OF ACTIVITY, SO WHY ARE YOU CONTINUING THE SAGA??? I'M NOT A STAR, SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO KEEP ME ON THE MARQUEE. OH...YOU ASK HOW IS IT THAT I HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO CHECK THE INTERNET AND THIS BOARD? NOT YOUR BUSINESS. I COULD ASK YOU THE SAME QUESTION.

BUT I HAPPEN NOT TO CARE WHY YOU HAVE SO MUCH INPUT ON A MATTER YOU WERE NOT INVOLVED IN IN THE FIRST PLACE. BYE......

[Anonymous (152.163.242.212)]

I'm new in the area and was looking at church websites so I can visit some of them. Seeing this webpage lets me know that I will not visit this church.

Not only because of what was said about the preacher. It's the vicious words I saw from some of the members that will keep me away. All that ugly talk about some lady who wrote a testimony and got a bad e-mail?

If the devil is in the pulpit, he sure has enough devils in his congregation to keep him ompany.

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

I'm new in the area and was looking at church websites so I can visit some of them. Seeing this webpage let me know that I will not be visiting this church.

Not only because of what I saw about the preacher. That was bad enough. It's the vicious words from some of the members that will keep me away.

All because some lady wrote a testimony and said she got a bad e-mail? I did see her testimony. Looks like she shared it with the wrong people.

If the devil is in the pulpit at this church, he sure has enough devils in his congregation to keep him company.

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

where is the ministry located?

[John McKinley (138.88.119.135)]

"Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting." (Galatians 6:9-10)

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron" (I Timothy 4:1-2)

"For the Love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. (I Timothy 6:10)

"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves,...Traitors, heady, high-minded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." See II Timothy 3)

My name is John McKinley. I graduated from Save the Seed Ministry and stayed there as a leader within the men’s' ministry for over two years. I was weary of the name-it-and-claim-it gospel that was preached, but I loved the men and residents who came seeking help from God. I made it a point to be a light shining in a dark place. I used to assume that Shine was a good businessman that preached as a hobby. I found out that he was not a good businessman at all and certainly not a student of scripture. I have never heard Shine preach a hermeneutically sound message. He had no idea how to exegete the message that God revealed in scripture, but he certainly knew how to use the scripture to convince people to give in to his plans and desires. He used seduction to convince the congregation to give exuberant amounts of money to buy his and his wife's suits and shoes, Cadillac, camera and music equipment. He seduced the mines of the men making empty promises of prosperity and shared wealth in exchange for slave labor. Some of the men (and women) in the ministry worked as much as 120 hours a week (really!!!). Men were bussed across the country to work 12 hours a day/7 days a week. For what? Food was donated. Beds were built out of planks and 2x4's by a carpenter within the ministry with used wood. There were many fire code violations, insects, lice, health code violations, etc. Men were transported around town to jobsites in unsafe vehicles (one young man was killed in a van accident with Shine's son at the wheel). Rumors of promiscuity permeated almost every conversation in the dorms. Yes, there are some serious problems with Shine Freeman and his followers, but God did work in the lives of many men that endured and came seeking God and deliverance, including me.

God used Samson, but Samson's lust and disobedience cost him gravely. God used David, but the house of David never knew true peace. Pray for Shine and those who follow him. Pray for all those who are deceived to follow "another gospel". Paul warned us about false doctrine, false prophets and false teachers throughout the New Testament. Heed the warnings of God's Word. Live by His Word and leave the judgment and punishment of sin in God's hands.

John T. McKinley
Blessed_of_god2003c@yahoo.com

[Bb in SC (66.192.63.5)]

I've read all the entries regarding Dr. Shine and the church and much of it is saddening. I've never been to the church and have just recently heard of Dr. Shine, so I'm very impartial.

Prayer is the greatest weapon we as believers have. Those of you that feel you've been used by the ministry, pray for Dr. Shine. Those of you attacked during for your comments, pray for the attackers. We are all the body of Christ - regardless if we see eye to eye on any situation.

And, if there are those that disagree with my solution, take it up with the author, God "our" Father.