Mormon Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints LDS Archive 03052003

[Anonymous]

Posted on Sat, Feb. 02, 2002

Olympics Bring Utah's Polygamists Into Spotlight
BY ROBERT WOODWARD

SALT LAKE CITY - (Reuters) - Rowenna Erickson wants Utah to take polygamy seriously and the Winter Olympics has offered her the perfect opportunity to publicize what she describes as the ''horrors'' of the practice of taking multiple wives.

Erickson, now 62, ran away from her 38-year marriage to a member of one of the biggest of Utah's polygamous families and four years ago established Tapestry against Polygamy.

The organization helps women, children and even men from polygamous marriages by offering them support and safe houses.

``There are a lot of people leaving these marriages and many are afraid,'' Erickson said. ``These are cults practicing brain-washing and mind control and when they leave it is a horrendous effort to make the transition.

``We are assisting refugees in their transition from polygamy to a new life of freedom.''

Polygamy was originally encouraged by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints -- commonly called the Mormon church -- in the Utah territory, where they settled after their trek across America fleeing religious persecution....

``It's time for Utah to wake up and take it seriously,'' she told Reuters in an interview. ``The abuses in polygamy are so horrific, it's a breeding ground for sexual abuse.

``The groups are isolated, they live in secrecy and avoid the law -- and the law doesn't go after them....

``This form of terrorism must be recognized by the International Olympic Committee ... for the rights of the vulnerable who will be left behind long after the Games are gone,'' it said in a statement...

Found at: http://www.aberdeennews.com/mld/aber...on/2593113.htm

[Anonymous]

In the theocratic state of Utah people are indoctrinated rather than educated: This is a state where the explosion of democracy and diversity has not reached any positive manifestation, except for the few blacks who are being bought into the dogmatic pretensions of Mormon religion, through propaganda and all kinds of means of mind control. Gladys Knight, the African American singer, is being shown as an icon for Mormon conversionism among the people of color. A random research of the African American population in Utah shows that most of the few blacks who were born in Utah are not members of the Mormon religion. When asked why, they tell that they had extreme experiences of racism and racial repudiation in their childhood in Utah. They are not convinced that this is “the only true church" on earth.



But, those African American Utah residents remain underreported in the bombastic propaganda that the Mormon Church presents to the world about the wonders of their mystic conversionism. In Utah, people are literally losing the right to think on their own as the Mormon Prophet continues to assert his reactionary policy in his very personalized blatant public style. With all the power of their international network for public relations and media control, the LDS Church continues to publish in bold titles how much help is being sent from Utah to the poor people of the world. No word is ever spoken of the continuing harassment on non-members who abide in the state of Utah. No comment comes from the LDS central agencies in regards to the situation of work harassment, neighborhood harassment and missionary indoctrination that continues to violate privacy rights on the people who are not members of the LDS church and who only intend to abide peacefully in a society of religious fruit loops.



America is trying to tear down the Al-Quaida network cooperating with others in all ways seeking to destroy that gang of terrorists who have made it to annihilate the social economic and social empowerment of women and children for the sake of a religious indoctrination where women do not have any value to be considered as human beings that deserve respect. At the same time, America seems to ignore the existence of a whole network of polygamists and racist theologies who continue to believe that sometime in the future world of celestial pleasures, only the worthy in mankind will resurrect to attain the wonders of plurality of marriage and endless procreation of a human race that will have one common anthropological characteristic: They will all be “white and delightsome.” Any opponents to such a delusive package of cultic notions will not either achieve to enter that fabulous world of super men.



Both Al-Quaida and the state of Utah are places where fanatics believe of women to be simple vases for reproduction of a superior race of human beings. In both societies the voices of women are to be silenced; in Al-Quaida by terror policies and in Utah by religious-political pressure and psycho pharmaceuticals. Chances for those women to become independent and to develop their own capacity to think are very low. Surprisingly, today's Al-Quaida women are standing in front of the perspective of reaching a better position to help them. In Utah, the situation hasn't changed for any betterment. This is still the one state with the highest child abuse per capita in the nation. This is one of the states with the highest level of poverty in the nation. And, it remains a problem of conscience to answer the question, why aren't those theocrats resolving such a shameful level of human degradation?



I am very impressed by the continuous activities of President Bill Clinton around the world. He is a real public speaker who can communicate concepts and convince audiences because the things he says are reasoned and his message is a message that touches all people, he doesn't make differences among better people and lower people, he does not condemn cultures and lifestyles. President Clinton is not a marionette of the US religious right. His message to the students in Berkeley has impressed me deeply for the impact of his declarations. One of his most inspiring revelations was when he described those killers in Al-Quaida, who persist to tell to one another, "I believe that this is the only true religion" But, as he continues to expose his thoughts, he speaks of a world without walls, a world where the need for globalization is an imperative necessity for the survival of the nations; we are to attain a world where it becomes dangerous that some groups tell to the rest that some kind of an ethnic group is going to prevail.



President Bill Clinton spoke about Al-Quaida, but living in Utah I thought about the Mormon indoctrination. He criticized Bin Laden and his people as fanatics who believe that theirs is the only truth. And, their view of community is like “you have to think and act like them, and that's what they believe.” They have a sort of extreme exclusive view of the world. “I know that Islam is the only true religion, and I know that the Koran is true.” But, the Mormons are telling the same crazy blabber. Bill Clinton tells that nobody has the absolute truth. That we are always learning something from one another, and community is not just everybody who is alike, but everybody who accepts common rules: We are going to be better off if we help each other. But President Clinton warns us from people who believe that their religion or race will be the most important truth of life. I am thinking that this will be a real tortured world if some of us still believe that the ones who are saved will all look alike, all wearing ties and suppressing women, or believing that women are objects for mere sexual reproduction, a world of people who walk around with a religious dogma in their right hands; if the title of that dogma is Koran or Book of Mormon I just fear that the nasty effect is about the same for women and minorities among them.

[Anonymous]

Evangelical Christians arrested on Mormon plaza
By The Associated Press04.09.02

SALT LAKE CITY — Two protesters have been arrested on the Mormon church's Main Street Plaza, the first trespassing arrests on the site since the city sold the land to the church and prompted a free-speech lawsuit.

Kurt Van Gorden, 48, and Melvin Heath, 46, were arrested April 7 for trespassing. Three other protesters received citations.

The group had been distributing evangelical Christian literature during the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints' semiannual General Conference. Members of the group twice refused to leave the plaza before they were arrested, said Salt Lake Police Sgt. Fred Louis.

"Arrests were made Sunday afternoon on the West Church Plaza that demonstrate why it is critical to the church to retain private property rights to prevent protests on its grounds," said church spokesman Dale Bills.----

Stephen Clark, the American Civil Liberties Union's legal director for Utah, saw it differently.

"They were engaging in core free-speech activities," Clark said.----

The city sold the land to the church for $8.1 million. City leaders gave the church exclusive rights to distribute literature and broadcast speeches and music on the block.

http://www.freedomforum.org/template...cumentID=16034

[Anonymous]

Mormon plaza ruled private property
By The Associated Press
01.03.01

SALT LAKE CITY — In a case that pitted free speech against property rights, a federal judge ruled yesterday that the Mormon church's Main Street Plaza is private property and that speech can be limited on the block across from the church's headquarters.

U.S. District Judge Ted Stewart's summary judgment derailed the American Civil Liberties Union's lawsuit against the city, which sold the property to the church.

"It's just not right that a treasured public asset like Main Street can be given over to one viewpoint," ACLU attorney Stephen Clark said after the ruling, adding that he would advise his office to appeal the ruling to the 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.===

The ACLU claimed that speech and behavior restrictions that the city allowed the church to institute violated the Constitution. The church was allowed to join as a defendant in the case to defend its property rights.

Clark argued that the plaza was a public forum, saying that the walkway through the plaza was a public sidewalk.

But Stewart sided with city and church attorneys, finding that the easement allowing the public to walk through the plaza did not preserve speech rights. He also said that there were other areas, including the public sidewalks on either end of the plaza, where speech is protected.

The Mormon church's Main Street Plaza opened in October in the heart of downtown Salt Lake City. The city sold the property to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for $8.1 million.===

Clark said he was unaware of anyone being kicked off the property. He predicted that when that happened, it would spark a new lawsuit.

The ACLU sued on behalf of the First Unitarian Church, Utahns for Fairness and the National Organization for Women.

http://www.freedomforum.org/template...cumentID=12970

[Anonymous]

Why so much hate? I am a Member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Days Saints and I have to wonder what you are all thinking.
1. The first comment about the person leaving a polygamous marraige. Polygamy has not been allowed in the LDS church for around 100 years. If the church finds that you are in a polygamous marrages you are kicked out of the church.
2. The second comment compareing people in Utah with Al-Quaida and there treatment of women is just a loon. Sorry but it is the truth. I do not live in Utah but I have friends that do. On is a women that is working on her PHD at BYU. You show me an Al-Quaida run college at all much less where a woman can get a PHD. My wife is my partner I treat her as my equal because she is my equal and I love her very much. You know nothing.
3 and 4 In this message it is just a news story about the Church Plaza. The church paid the city $8.1 Million for it. The city did not give it to them. The Salt Lake Temple is a special place for the members of the Church. Thousands of people come there to be married every year. I have been there before they bought that land. I can tell you I had many rude people protesting in my face. It is not as if they can not protest right outside of it.
The church paid a fair price and lets everyone walk through it for there convenice.

Sorry folks but the level of hate here reminds me of the Klan. The LDS church is no more of a cult than the Roman Catholic Church is.

[Anonymous]

The LDS church is no more of a cult than the Roman Catholic Church is?

Yes, but look what is coming out of the Roman Catholic Church nowadays.

the fact that Mormons act weird does not minimalize the actions of Catholics acting weird. But Mormonism is a cult because it shows three things that characterize a cult:

1.- Veneration of a central human figure that is idealized as holy.

2.- Idealization of their own doctrine as an obligation for all mankind.

3.- Exclusiveness about being "the only ones" who are right.

The very fact that women in Utah have to deal with depression and psychopharmaceuticals as a consequence of the excessive pregnancies that their believe system forces them to accept is another complicated similitude to the Arab fundamentalists.

Another aspect from the Mormon faith that reminds me to the ideals of Islam is their expectation of rising from the death in poligamous relationships with many women. This is Moslem teaching transferred to Christian appeal.

[Anonymous]

My best friend was raised in Utah as a Mormon by very nice Mormon parents. He attended Sunday School all along his childhood and when he became an adult, he went to a mission for two years. All was nice and happy until he decided that he wanted to leave the Mormon Church. When you ask him why did he leave his religion, he tells always the same thing: "It's that Book of Abraham, that book is one big lie among many other lies being taught to the people."

It took me some time to understand what he was trying to explain to me. I had to keep asking him questions because I did not have any background in Mormon theology and I wanted to help him. This is what I found out: The Book of Abraham is some kind of an Egyptian scripture that was inserted in the book "Doctrine and Covenants" that the Mormons read as part of their theology. The "Book of Abraham" was "translated" by Joseph Smith. This "translation" became part of the doctrine that Mormons teach to their people. Later in history, some Archaeologists found the key to the hieroglyphs that Joseph Smith said he had "translated" and they discovered that the "translation" of Joseph Smith was a fraud all along. What he said he translated was never found by the arachaeological society of America as part of the document that he inserted in his "Doctrine and Covenants." In according to the scholars, the page in discussion was nothing else than a document related to the Egyptian Book of the Death. The things that Joseph Smith, the Mormon Prophet, said he had "translated" from that document are a fraud.

The Mormon church never apologized or retracted for that false teaching. Until today, the book "Doctrine and Covenants" still contains that fraudulent page and it still "translates" a whole other thing than its real meaning. This is the reason why my friend left the LDS church after he returned from his mission.

My friend is currently receiving psychiatric treatment because he can't get rid of the guilt that his experience as a Mormon missionary has brought upon him. He feels bad for having forced that belief system on hundreds of unaware "investigators," many of whom got baptized into a cult that he calls "a fraudulent religious system."

[Lwatcdr]

"Yes, but look what is coming out of the Roman Catholic Church nowadays."

For the most part Catholic Priests are good devoted men. Less than 5% of them are guilty of Sexual abuse. Most of them are doing what they think is right and they do help a lot of people. This is another good example of the hate on here. It was and is a cheap shot.

Now to you three points of why the LDS church is a cult.

1.- Veneration of a central human figure that is idealized as holy.

Do you mean Jesus, J. Smith, or the current president of the church?

If you mean Jesus then yes we are as guilty as any Christain faith of that. If you mean J. Smith , his is the man that restored to church. He then was killed by a mob. He is help in the same light as say John the Baptist. The current leader of the church is the leader of the church. We do not prey to anybody but Jesus or God. The same as every other christan church.

2.- Idealization of their own doctrine as an obligation for all mankind.
This I do not understand. Do you mean that the members of the church have an obligation to teach our doctrain? Of course we feel that as does any group that has strong beliefs. For example the memvers of this forum. Or a political party. Do we feel that every person on earth should follow these teachings. Well that is also true. Just as most every other group from Republicans to Communists.
The obligation part is totaly wrong. We believe that every person must have his or her free agenecy to decide what they believe. That the cornerstone of the faith.

3.- Exclusiveness about being "the only ones" who are right.
That is not church doctrian. The president of the church on Larry King said it best. All religions have some of the truth and we respect there right to worship in there own way.

My sister is Catholic, My best friend is a Universal Unitarian, My mother Epsicopal. I respect all of there churches and there faiths.

You comments on the abuse of women. That is also not in line with church teachings. At every temple interview the bishop will talk to the wife first and ask if there is any abuse in the home. Then they will ask the husband in his interview. We have been instructed to not tolerate any abuse in the home.
Again since I am a member of the church, and in the Priesthood leadership of my ward I can say that my wife and I decided together how many children we want. I have zero tolerence for the abuse of women and I know my Bishop, Stake President, Area President, and President of the Church feel the same way. Are their people in Utah that abuse women? Yes, can they abuse their wife and follow the techings of the church and be a good member and hold an honest temple recomend. NO!

As to the man whose friend is having diffuclties. I hope he can get over them. The comments that you have about the translation is the stuff of urban leganads I am afraid. I do not think that can in any sence be proof that the church is a cult. I do hope he can get past his guilt. I think he did a good thing being a missionary. I hope that the Doctor he is going to is not some Church Basher that is getting his jollies from using your friend to prove a point. I do hope you friend will be happy with is life soon.

[Anonymous]

Do you mean Jesus, J. Smith, or the current president of the church?

I MEAN ALL. BY THE WAY, DID YOU KNOW THAT THE JESUS WORSHIPED BY THE MORMONS IS JUST ANOTHER GUY THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE JESUS EXPLAINED IN THE BIBLE?

If you mean Jesus then yes we are as guilty as any Christain faith of that.

NOT SO FAST: THE JESUS WORSHIPED BY THE MORMONS IS A COMPOUND OF OCCULTISM AND SELF MADE DOCTRINE COMING FROM THE MIND OF A CULTIC FREAK.

If you mean J. Smith , his is the man that restored to church. He then was killed by a mob.

JOSEPH SMITH WAS BANNED FROM NEW YORK BECAUSE OF IMMORALITY AND THE PREACHING OF DELUSIVE DOCTRINE.

He is help in the same light as say John the Baptist.

BUDDY, YOU ARE IN SERIOUS TROUBLE IN ALL THAT DARKNESS.

The current leader of the church is the leader of the church. We do not prey to anybody but Jesus or God. The same as every other christan church.

THEN WHY IS IT IMPORTANT TO ORGANIZE IN GROUPS AROUND THE OLD MAN LIKE THE BEES AROUND THEIR QUEEN? ARE YOU SURE THAT YOU KNOW THE REAL MEANING OF A CULT AS A SERIUOS DEFINITION?


2.- Idealization of their own doctrine as an obligation for all mankind.
This I do not understand. Do you mean that the members of the church have an obligation to teach our doctrain? Of course we feel that as does any group that has strong beliefs. For example the memvers of this forum. Or a political party. Do we feel that every person on earth should follow these teachings. Well that is also true. Just as most every other group from Republicans to Communists.

WELL, REPUBLICANS AND COMMUNISTS ARE TALKING ABOUT REALITY. THERE IS NO WAY TO MESS UP THE ACTIVITIES OF A PSYCHO GROUPS WITH THOSE OF THE POLITICAL PARTIES. POLITICAL PARTIES (AT LEAST IN THE UNITED STATES) ACCEPT ALL THE MEMBERS OF THE HUMAN FAMILY. THERE IS NO DISTINCTION AMONG WHITES AND BLACK, STRAIGHTS AND HOMOSEXUALS IN FRONT OF THE LAW. . .

The obligation part is totaly wrong. We believe that every person must have his or her free agenecy to decide what they believe. That the cornerstone of the faith.

YEP, ESPECIALLY WITH THINGS LIKE THIS:

We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.


We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.


3.- Exclusiveness about being "the only ones" who are right.
That is not church doctrian. The president of the church on Larry King said it best. All religions have some of the truth and we respect there right to worship in there own way.

LARRY KING IS BUT ONE PERSON. HE IS NOT PERFECT AND HE IS MARRIED TO A MORMON AT THIS TIME. THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH WILL APPEAR IN ANY CHANNEL THAT MAY IMPROVE HIS PR POSSIBILITIES. AS FAR AS I CAN TELL, IT IS THE NUMBER OF MEMBERS WHAT MAKES A CULT BECOME ACCEPTED AS A RELIGION.

My sister is Catholic, My best friend is a Universal Unitarian, My mother Epsicopal. I respect all of there churches and there faiths.

MANY PEOPLE ARE ATTENDING CHURCH IN VARIOUS DENOMINATIONS, THAT IS ONLY A SIGN OF THE BIG CONFUSION THAT PEOPLE ARE IN. THERE ARE LOTS OF YOUNG PEOPLE LEAVING THE MORMON CHURCH. UNFORTUNATELY, AFTER THEY LEAVE THE CHURCH THEY FIND THAT THERE IS NOT A LOT OF HAPPINESS TO BE FOUND. THE MAIN REASON SEEMS TO BE THAT THERE IS NOT A LOT OF CULTURE GOING ON IN UTAH. THOSE KIDS ARE BORED AND DEPRESSED. THAT'S HOW THEY GET TO EARLY PREGNANCIES, ALCOHOL, DRUGS, YOU NAME IT...

You comments on the abuse of women. That is also not in line with church teachings. At every temple interview the bishop will talk to the wife first and ask if there is any abuse in the home. Then they will ask the husband in his interview. We have been instructed to not tolerate any abuse in the home.

I KNOW OF A BISHOP'S WIFE THAT COMMITTED SUICIDE WHILE HER LOVING HUSBAND WAS STILL GIVING HER BLESSINGS BELIEVING THAT HE WOULD HEAL HER WITH ALL HIS ENDOWED POWER. THERE IS A LOT OF DEPRESSION AMONG WOMEN IN UTAH; LOTS OF PSYCHOTROPIC DRUGS CONSUMED BY THOSE PRUDISH ABUSED WOMEN. THERE IS ALSO EARLY PREGNANCIES IN RISING NUMBERS. THE POOR GIRLS ARE IN MANY INSTANCES RAPED BY THEIR FORSTER PARENTS, WHO ARE ASSIGNED TO THEM BY THE CHURCH WITHOUT ANY PARTICIPATION OF THE STATE. IT IS VERY WEIRD.

Again since I am a member of the church, and in the Priesthood leadership of my ward I can say that my wife and I decided together how many children we want. I have zero tolerence for the abuse of women and I know my Bishop, Stake President, Area President, and President of the Church feel the same way. Are their people in Utah that abuse women? Yes, can they abuse their wife and follow the techings of the church and be a good member and hold an honest temple recomend. NO!

LOOK SOME OF THE CHILD MOLESTERS IN UTAH HAVE TEMPLE RECOMMENDS AND CALLINGS IN THE HIGH PRIESTHOOD. EVEN WORST: BEING A PRIESTHOOD HOLDER, A MAN WHO IS COMMITTING MOLESTATION WILL REMAIN PROTECTED BY A VERY WEIRD CONVENIENCE SYSTEM. THE REPORTS PUBLISHED IN THE CITY WEEKLY ABOUT CHILDREN SUFFERING MOLESTATION FROM CHURCH LEADERS CONTINUES TO REMAIN UNDER REPRESENTED.


As to the man whose friend is having diffuclties. I hope he can get over them. The comments that you have about the translation is the stuff of urban leganads I am afraid.

URBAN LEGENDS? I SEE, THAT'S HOW YOU CALL THE REPORTS OF THE ARCHAEOLOGICAL SOCIETY OF AMERICA?

DO YOU REALIZE THAT YOUR OBTUSE POINT OF VIEW IS EXACTLY WHAT PEOPLE NORMALLY DEFINE AS "CULTIC BEHAVIOR?" YOU WANT TO SEE WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE.

I do not think that can in any sence be proof that the church is a cult.

THE CHURCH IS A CULT BECAUSE OF ALL THE REASONS, STARTING WITH THE ABERRATED RITES THAT DO NOT RELATE TO CHRISTIANITY AT ALL BUT TO MAGICS AND OCCULTISM, CONTINUING THROUGH THE BELIEFS IN WHITE SUPREMACY AND RACIAL DISCRIMINATION, UNTIL WE ARRIVE TO THE CRUCIAL BELIEF IN THE PLURALITY OF MARRIAGES THAT ONLY THE MEN WILL BE ABLE TO PERFORM IN THE CELESTIAL KINGDOM. IF YOU CAN'T SEE THAT THIS THING IS A COMPLETE LOON, YOU ARE IN A SERIOUS TROUBLE, MY FRIEND.

I do hope he can get past his guilt.

YES, YOU WILL ONLY TRY TO MAKE HIM FEEL MORE GUILTY WITH SENTENCES LIKE THIS:

I think he did a good thing being a missionary.

HOW CAN YOU KNOW? THERE IS NO WAY FOR YOU TO KNOW IF HE DID A GOOD JOB OR NOT. YOU ARE JUST REPEATING THE MANTRA THAT RETURNED MISSIONARIES ARE SUPPOSED TO HEAR ALL THE TIME.

I hope that the Doctor he is going to is not some Church Basher that is getting his jollies from using your friend to prove a point.

YES, EVERYBODY WHO IS NOT A MORMON AND IS NOT INTENDING TO CONVERT TO MORMONISM IS A CHURCH BASHER... HOW CAN YOU BE SO PRIMITIVE???


I do hope you friend will be happy with is life soon.

I DON'T EVEN EXPECT YOU TO KNOW THE MEANING OF HAPPINESS, SINCE YOU ARE TRAPPED IN A CONVENIENCE SYSTEM THAT HAS SWALLOED YOUR MIND, YOUR FREEDOM AND YOUR IMAGINATION. YES YOU HAVE A LOT OF IMAGERY TO BELIEVE IN, BUT THIS IS NOT A PRODUCT OF YOUR OWN IMAGINATION SINCE IT HAS BEEN IMPOSED TO YOU BY A GROUP. YOU ARE NOT FREE INSIDE AND YOU KNOW IT. YOU ARE CAUGHT IN THE TENTACLES OF A DANGEROUS PSYCHO GROUP THAT THINKS FOR YOU, IT TELLS YOU HOW TO LIVE, WHAT TO EAT, HOW TO THINK, WHAT TO DRINK, WHOM TO ASSOCIATE WITH. MAN! YOU ARE LIKE A HAMSTER TRAPPED IN A WHEEL, NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU RUN, YOU ARE STILL ON THE SAME PLACE ALL THE TIME. AND THE PSYCHO GROUP WILL NEVER LET YOU GO...

[Anonymous]

I found an interesting article on Mormon child abuse. It is here:

http://kosnoff.com/construction/

[Anonymous]

"If you mean J. Smith , this is the man that restored the church. He then was killed by a mob. He is held in the same light as say John the Baptist. The current leader of the church is the leader of the church. We do not prey to anybody but Jesus or God."

MISCONCEPTION 10. Joseph Smith was a humble man:

Joseph Smith made this boastful statement on May 26, 1844. "I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet." (History of the Church, vol. 6, pgs. 408-409)

http://www.mindspring.com/~engineer_...n/misconce.htm#alcohol

[Anonymous]

Man escapes jail time in child molestation case

Phoenix-AP -- An Arizona man charged with molesting his five daughters won't be going to prison -- after four of the young women refused to testify against him.

Dan Barlow Junior received a suspended 120-day prison sentence.----

Prosecutors had charged Barlow with 14 counts of child abuse.

--------Barlow's father is a leading member of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

Barlow was also sentenced to seven years of probation and told to stay away from his daughters and all other children under 18 years of age.

http://home.abc28.com/Global/story.asp?S=755053&nav=0zGK2RaY8blR

[Anonymous]

I have a question here:

Is that "Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" the same Mormon church based in Salt Lake City, Utah? Or is this "Fundamentalist" a different group?

[Anonymous]

WAS JOSEPH SMITH A PROPHET, OR A CULT LEADER?

The first set of criteria comes from the group' use of a specific set of mind control tactics. Please see "A technical overview of mind control tactics" at http://www.factnet.org/rancho1.htm for details or see http://www.factnet.org/coercivemindcontrol.html for a shorter version. These two documents are derived from the work of Dr. Margaret Singer professor emeritus at the University of California at Berkeley the acknowledged leading authority in the world on mind control and cults.

The second set of criteria has to do with defining other common elements of mind control systems, as defined by Robert Jay Lifton's eight point model of thought reform. Please see "Robert Jay Lifton's Eight Point Model of Thought Reform" also at http://www.factnet.org/rancho1.htm. If most points in this model are being used in a cultic organization, it is most likely a dangerous and destructive cult.

The third set of criteria have to do with defining common elements of destructive and dangerous cults. The following section will help clarify what some of those specific elements and criteria are.

Common Properties of Potentially Destructive and Dangerous Cults

The cult is authoritarian in its power structure. The leader is regarded as the supreme authority. He or she may delegate certain power to a few subordinates for the purpose of seeing that members adhere to the leader's wishes and roles. There is no appeal outside of his or her system to greater systems of justice. For example, if a school teacher
feels unjustly treated by a principal, appeals can be made. In a cult, the leader claims to have the only and final ruling on all matters.

The cult's leaders tend to be charismatic, determined, and
domineering. They persuade followers to drop their families, jobs, careers, and friends to follow them. They (not the individual) then take over control of their followers' possessions, money, lives.

The cult's leaders are self-appointed, messianic persons who claim to have a special mission in life. For example, the flying saucer cult leaders claim that people from outer space have commissioned them to lead people to special places to await a space ship.

The cult's leaders center the veneration of members upon themselves. Priests, rabbis, ministers, democratic leaders, and leaders of genuinely altruistic movements keep the veneration of adherents focused on God, abstract principles, and group purposes. Cult leaders, in contrast, keep the focus of love, devotion, and allegiance on themselves.

The cult tends to be totalitarian in its control of the behavior of its members. Cults are likely to dictate in great detail what members wear, eat, when and where they work, sleep, and bathe-as well as what to believe, think, and say.

The cult tends to have a double set of ethics. Members are urged to be open and honest within the group, and confess all to the leaders. On the other hand, they are encouraged to deceive and manipulate outsiders or nonmembers. Established religions teach members to be honest and truthful to all, and to abide by one set of ethics.

The cult has basically only two purposes, recruiting new members and fund-raising. Established religions and altruistic movements may also recruit and raise funds. However, their sole purpose is not to grow larger; such groups have the goals to better the lives of their members
and mankind in general. The cults may claim to make social
contributions, but in actuality these remain mere claims, or gestures. Their focus is always dominated by recruiting new members and fund-raising.

The cult appears to be innovative and exclusive. The leader claims to be breaking with tradition, offering something novel, and instituting the only viable system for change that will solve life's problems or the world's ills. While claiming this, the cult then surreptitiously uses systems of psychological coercion on its members to inhibit their
ability to examine the actual validity of the claims of the leader and the cult.

http://www.factnet.org/rancho5.htm?FACTNet

[LWATCDR]

I will be glad to answer all the comments that I have gotten so far.

>I MEAN ALL. BY THE WAY, DID YOU KNOW THAT THE JESUS >WORSHIPED BY THE MORMONS IS JUST ANOTHER GUY THAT HAS >NOTHING TO DO WITH THE JESUS EXPLAINED IN THE BIBLE?

Really so you know that I do not worship the Jesus that is written about in the bible? The Jesus that I worship is the son of god.
Was born of Mary.
Preached the Gospel in Jeruselm.
Was tried by the Romans.
Died on the cross for all of our sins.
Rose from the dead and sits at the right hand of the father.
Now from all the years that I was in Episcopal church and after checking with my wife that was a Baptist and checking with my friend that is a Catholic Priest that is the Jesus of the bible. I also believe that Jesus love all of people of the world and would not leave half of it in darkness. So I have no problem with as a matter of faith that he would also preach in the new world.
If you flat out say that anyone that believes in God and or Jesus as the son of God is a member of a cult. Then I am guilty as charges along with all my Christian, Jewish, and Islamic brothers and sisters.

>>If you mean Jesus then yes we are as guilty as any Christain faith >>of that.

>NOT SO FAST: THE JESUS WORSHIPED BY THE MORMONS IS A >COMPOUND OF OCCULTISM AND SELF MADE DOCTRINE COMING >FROM THE MIND OF A CULTIC FREAK.

That is your opinion and you have a right to it. It is also judgmental, and mean spirited and hateful. You offer no proof just your opinion. From it I would guess that you are a member of a fundamentalist church that teaches that Mormons are evil. I could be wrong. And this could just be what you have come up with on your own.

>>If you mean J. Smith , his is the man that restored to church. He >>then was killed by a mob.

>JOSEPH SMITH WAS BANNED FROM NEW YORK BECAUSE OF >IMMORALITY AND THE PREACHING OF DELUSIVE DOCTRINE.

Someone was banned form a state because of preaching delusive doctrine? Welcome to America land of religious freedom. What Immoral acts did he commit in New York, besides teaching what he believed to be the truth?
Even if what you say is true and he was ?Banned? from New York what does that prove. Christ, Gandi, and Martian Luthor King where all convicted criminals.

>>He is held in the same light as say John the Baptist.

>BUDDY, YOU ARE IN SERIOUS TROUBLE IN ALL THAT DARKNESS.

Again that is your opinion. I doubt that I am in a trouble at all and I also doubt that I am in darkness. Darkness is a place filled with hate and fear. I do not fear any other religion or ideas and I really try hard to hate. I offer as proof of my lack of fear the fact that I am willing to post here even though I know I would be attacked and or challenged. I like having my ideas challenged, it helps me to look at them more closely. The attacked part is a bit of a drag but you have to take the bad with the good.

>>The current leader of the church is the leader of the church. We do >>not prey to anybody but Jesus or God. The same as every other >>christen church.

>THEN WHY IS IT IMPORTANT TO ORGANIZE IN GROUPS AROUND >THE OLD MAN LIKE THE BEES AROUND THEIR QUEEN? ARE YOU >SURE THAT YOU KNOW THE REAL MEANING OF A CULT AS A >SERIUOS DEFINITION?

I am very aware of the many definitions of a cult. The one I work from is ?A Cult is a group that has a dominating harmful influence on it's members.? Some people would say that AA, all churches, and linux users groups are all cults. A queenbee? Sorry but that is not me. Your description could also be for the government of the US, Microsoft, or just about any church. They all have leaders and groups of people that work with him to run things.

>WELL, REPUBLICANS AND COMMUNISTS ARE TALKING ABOUT >REALITY. THERE IS NO WAY TO MESS UP THE ACTIVITIES OF A >PSYCHO GROUPS WITH THOSE OF THE POLITICAL PARTIES.

Really they deal in reality. Since Republicans and Communists are almost completely contradictory how can the both be dealing in reality? In fact Communism is a theory that has never been succsesfuly implemented. They are groups the feel they know how to make the world a better place. As far as a the Mormons being a groups of ?sic? psychos. These Psychos include the inventer of Television..
An astronaght.
The owner of the Marriot hotel chain.
The founder of Novell.
The founder of WordPerfect.
And many workers at NASA that I have meet.
I say bring on the Psychos.
Now as to
>POLITICAL PARTIES (AT LEAST IN THE UNITED STATES) ACCEPT ALL >THE MEMBERS OF THE HUMAN FAMILY.
Really? I would love to see the Gay Republicans. How about the the American Communist party? I bet they have a bunch of Catholics and Born agains. And of course the Democrate Right to life born agains should be a large group.

>THERE IS NO DISTINCTION AMONG WHITES AND BLACK, >STRAIGHTS AND HOMOSEXUALS IN FRONT OF THE LAW. . .
Really? So those sodomey laws in some states are just a figment? Unless you live in Hawaii there are no gay marraiges. And Blacks have not had equal protection under the law. The sad truth is many times even today minorites do not have equal protection under the law.
I am sure that you are trying to reference the churches history involving African Americans. Under J. Smith the church was accused of being abolisionist because it did have African American members and the owning of slaves was not allowed. It was a good start but went down from there. In 1978 African Americans where restored to full members. It was before I joined and it most likley would have never joined if the change had not been made. Today in my ward we have African Americans in leadership and mixed race families as members. For me it is a one of many steps we feeble stupid humans have to make to get closer to God.
As to Homosexuals. That is a hard one for sure. We believe that sex outside of marriage is wrong. We also believe that only a Man and a Woman can get married. Do we believe that homosexuals are going to hell? That they are Dammed? No. My stepbrother is gay. I love him he and I have been friends since before my parrents got married. He is a good man.

>>The obligation part is totaly wrong. We believe that every person >>must have his or her free agenecy to decide what they believe. >>That the cornerstone of the faith.

>YEP, ESPECIALLY WITH THINGS LIKE THIS:
>We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, >healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.

>We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated >correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
Your point is? Yes this is what we believe
You pick one of the articles of faith that you think proves your point. I have no idea what that point is but let me give you an other article of faith to chew on.

Here is article 11 ?We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.?
I suggest that all of you all that have opinons about the church go to the church website. Www.lds.org there is a lot of information about the church. Of course it is from the churches point of view. It is the churches website after all.

>LARRY KING IS BUT ONE PERSON. HE IS NOT PERFECT AND HE IS >MARRIED TO A MORMON AT THIS TIME. THE PRESIDENT OF THE >CHURCH WILL APPEAR IN ANY CHANNEL THAT MAY IMPROVE HIS >PR POSSIBILITIES. AS FAR AS I CAN TELL, IT IS THE NUMBER OF >MEMBERS WHAT MAKES A CULT BECOME ACCEPTED AS A RELIGION.

How do I comment on this. You have made up your mind. The only thing you would accept is if the President of the church got on TV and said, ?April Fools we made it all up.? So the President of the church says that we respect all other religions on TV. Since you do not feel that the church does he is lieing. The President of the church says the same thing in the General Conference of the church which is where and how he teaches the members of the church. He is lieing? You claim that we all follow what he says blindly and he tells us to respect other religions... your statements lack logic.

>MANY PEOPLE ARE ATTENDING CHURCH IN VARIOUS >DENOMINATIONS, THAT IS ONLY A SIGN OF THE BIG CONFUSION >THAT PEOPLE ARE IN.
Can I asume then you know what is the correct and true church? If so please enlighten me.

>LOOK SOME OF THE CHILD MOLESTERS IN UTAH HAVE TEMPLE >RECOMMENDS AND CALLINGS IN THE HIGH PRIESTHOOD. EVEN >WORST: BEING A PRIESTHOOD HOLDER, A MAN WHO IS >COMMITTING MOLESTATION WILL REMAIN PROTECTED BY A VERY >WEIRD CONVENIENCE SYSTEM.
1.No one that tells their Bishop that they molest children has a temple recommend! Could they lie bout it? Sure you show me any group of 11 million people that does not have one member that commits crimes and I will join in a heart beat.

>THE REPORTS PUBLISHED IN THE CITY WEEKLY ABOUT CHILDREN >SUFFERING MOLESTATION FROM CHURCH LEADERS CONTINUES TO >REMAIN UNDER REPRESENTED.
What City weekly? Is it online give us a link.

>URBAN LEGENDS? I SEE, THAT'S HOW YOU CALL THE REPORTS OF >THE ARCHAEOLOGICAL SOCIETY OF AMERICA?
Do you have link to this article so I can read it for myself? If not then it is just an Urban Legend. If I told you that the Pope was a Mormon would you believe me? Of course you would want documented proof.

>I KNOW OF A BISHOP'S WIFE THAT COMMITTED SUICIDE WHILE >HER LOVING HUSBAND WAS STILL GIVING HER BLESSINGS >BELIEVING THAT HE WOULD HEAL HER WITH ALL HIS ENDOWED >POWER.

Did you really know this bishop's wife? Or is this a story that someone told you? Do you have documented proof? If not I would say that it is also an Urban Legend. If it is true then the Bishop was a moron! One of the Twelve is a heart surgon. The church has no problem with modern medicne. Do we believe in healings? Yes but we do not shun modern medicen. It has been proven that if you know that you are loved you will heal quicker. Reciving a blessing to a person of faith reafirms God's love for them. Having people take the time to pray for you shows you that they care. There is no magic to it. Do miricals happen. I know many that claim to have seen them. Some things are a matter of faith and very personal. Does going to a doctor prove that lack faith? No not at all Science is the search for truth. All truth comes from God.
THERE IS A LOT OF DEPRESSION AMONG WOMEN IN UTAH; LOTS OF PSYCHOTROPIC DRUGS CONSUMED BY THOSE PRUDISH ABUSED WOMEN.

There is a lot of depresed women in Califoria that are not prudish and they also consume lots of drugs.
You point is?

>>I do hope he can get past his guilt.

>YES, YOU WILL ONLY TRY TO MAKE HIM FEEL MORE GUILTY WITH >SENTENCES LIKE THIS:

>I think he did a good thing being a missionary.

>>HOW CAN YOU KNOW? THERE IS NO WAY FOR YOU TO KNOW IF >>HE DID A GOOD JOB OR NOT.

I don't know if he was a good missionary or not. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt. I assumed that he did what he thought was right at the time. That he did service to others based on what he believed in. These are good things even if you are Baptist, Cahtolic, Buddist, or an athiest that goes to a soup kitchen and feeds the homeless twice a week.

>YOU ARE JUST REPEATING THE MANTRA THAT RETURNED >MISSIONARIES ARE SUPPOSED TO HEAR ALL THE TIME.
Listen buddy you seem to think that you can judge me. You do not even know me. I repeat no mantra I told you how I felt. Your lack of manners and respect for others beliefs is flat out astounding.

>>I hope that the Doctor he is going to is not some Church Basher >>that is getting his jollies from using your friend to prove a point.

>YES, EVERYBODY WHO IS NOT A MORMON AND IS NOT INTENDING >TO CONVERT TO MORMONISM IS A CHURCH BASHER... HOW CAN >YOU BE SO PRIMITIVE???
Primitive? Listen buddy, why do you not read what I wrote instead of what you want me to say? Of course not everybody that is not LDS is a church basher. You are a church basher. Maybe it is out of you love for you friend. I know I have raged when feel that people that I care about have been mistreated. However you blind hatride of the church and it's members is not healthy for you. Hate is very distructive in general. If the doctor is someone that is just using your friend to prove a point about about how he feels about the church. That doctor can push your friend to feel even more guilty about what he did instead of trying to heal him. I do not know this doctor and can not judge him. I can only hope he can help your friend.

>I DON'T EVEN EXPECT YOU TO KNOW THE MEANING OF HAPPINESS, >SINCE YOU ARE TRAPPED IN A CONVENIENCE SYSTEM THAT HAS >SWALLOED YOUR MIND, YOUR FREEDOM AND YOUR IMAGINATION. >YES YOU HAVE A LOT OF IMAGERY TO BELIEVE IN, BUT THIS IS NOT >A PRODUCT OF YOUR OWN IMAGINATION SINCE IT HAS BEEN >IMPOSED TO YOU BY A GROUP. YOU ARE NOT FREE INSIDE AND >YOU KNOW IT. YOU ARE CAUGHT IN THE TENTACLES OF A >DANGEROUS PSYCHO GROUP THAT THINKS FOR YOU, IT TELLS YOU >HOW TO LIVE, WHAT TO EAT, HOW TO THINK, WHAT TO DRINK, >WHOM TO ASSOCIATE WITH. MAN! YOU ARE LIKE A HAMSTER >TRAPPED IN A WHEEL, NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU RUN, YOU ARE >STILL ON THE SAME PLACE ALL THE TIME. AND THE PSYCHO GROUP >WILL NEVER LET YOU GO...
Lets see you think Mormons are.
Judgemental
Exclusive
And think we have all the answers?
And you write this diatribe? You are so sure of what you think you know you will not listen to anyone else. You even contradic yourself! You say that many youth are leaving the church yet at the same time you say that the ?AND THE PSYCO GROUP WILL NEVER LET YOU GO...?
Which is it? For your information I am very free and I do know it inside.

[Anonymous]

Now the next one.

MISCONCEPTION 10. Joseph Smith was a humble man:

Joseph Smith made this boastful statement on May 26, 1844. "I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet." (History of the Church, vol. 6, pgs. 408-409)
This is one statment. I doubt that anybody that is a good leader can be truly humble. It they where they would never become a leader. Joseph Smith was not perfect. Only Christ was perfect and without sin. That is the truth. Joseph Smith was an imprect man. I believe that he was also inspired of God. But that is my faith which you are free to not share.

[Anonymous]

And this artical

>Man escapes jail time in child molestation case

>Phoenix-AP -- An Arizona man charged with molesting his five >daughters won't be going to prison -- after four of the young women >refused to testify against him.

>Dan Barlow Junior received a suspended 120-day prison sentence.----

>Prosecutors had charged Barlow with 14 counts of child abuse.

>--------Barlow's father is a leading member of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is not The Chuch of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints . It is a fringe off shoot of the faith. I have to ask you if you have ever dealt with domestic violence of any kind? I have do you know how hard it is to get Women to testify in an abuse case? It does not matter what religion they are if any. The sad fact is that they feel trapped and also feel that they will just make things worse. As a country I feel that we need to make sure that anybody in an abusive situation has a way out. This story does not shock me at all. It does saden me.

[Anonymous]

And to this comment

I found an interesting article on Mormon child abuse. It is here:

If you look these are articals going back for years. I never said that local leadership never made a single mistake with dealing with these issues. Not one of those artical ever claims that it is endemic to the church as a whole. I suggest if you want to see the current church stand on sexual abuse that you look at this years Priesthood session talk on the website www.lds.org. It is pretty clear cut. I frankly wonder how any member could think it is OK to not report sexual abuse. Their was a "grey" area for a while. What you told your Bishop was alway considered "privlaged communication" that grey area has now been made VERY BLACK AND WHITE. Which is a good thing.

[Anonymous]

NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC LETTER [REGARDING THE FALACY OF THE BOOK OF MORMON]

National Geographic Society
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20036
January 11, 1990

Dear Mr. Larson:

Thank you for writing to the National Geographic Society.

The Society has never used the Book of Mormon to locate archaeological sites, and we do not believe that any of the places named in the Book of Mormon can be placed geographically by the evidence of archaeology. So far as we know there is no archaeological evidence to verify the history of early peoples of the Western Hemisphere as presented in the Book of Mormon.

I hope you will find this information useful.



Yours truly,

Pamela Tucci
Research Correspondence


http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/...phicletter.htm

[Anonymous]

Information from the
National Museum of Natural History
SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION WASHINGTON, D.C. 20560



Your recent inquiry concerning the Smithsonian Institution's alleged use of the Book of Mormon as a scientific guide has been received in the Smithsonian's Department of Anthropology.

The Book of Mormon is a religious document and not a scientific guide. The Smithsonian Institution has never used it in archeological research and any information that you have received to the contrary is incorrect. Accurate information about the Smithsonian's position is contained in the enclosed "Statement Regarding the Book of Mormon," which was prepared to respond to the numerous inquiries that the Smithsonian receives on this topic.

Because the Smithsonian regards the unauthorized use of its name to disseminate inaccurate information as unlawful, we would appreciate your assistance in providing us with the names of any individuals who are misusing the Smithsonian's name. Please address any correspondence to:



Anthropology Outreach Office
Department of Anthropology
National Museum of Natural History MRC 112
Smithsonian Institution
Washington, DC 20560





PREPARED BY
THE DEPARTMENT OF ANTHROPOLOGY
SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION
1996

http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/...nianletter.htm