Thinking about groupthink

onesimus · 09-04-2006, 06:04 AM

Lanny's rejoinder to my comments about Barbara on the CCG I believe are a good case study in groupthink. Normally when he pulls something like this, a support group arises with "oh, Lanny, thank you for bringing truth," or some such. If that doesn't happen this time, I'd be inclined to think groupthink is in abeyance for a season on CCG.

Honest disagreement with my comments about Barbara does not constitute "groupthink." There just isn't anything honest about Lanny's collection of innuendos, distortions, and fear tactics i.e. I didn't redefine "sin", or set myself up as any authority, etc.

I did something far worse - speaking ill of an idol.

The teacher speaks:

Lots of good things said and I am only bringing up one thing I disagree with...
---Why does BB have to repent of One's definition of what was sin? He asks leading questions...leading to one conclusion...
---Why not ask, "What do you call a woman who for years put everyone else's needs above her own?" "What do you call a woman who for years put God's kingdom ahead of everything else in her life?" "What do you call a woman who was faithful to the voice of God's Spirit in her life?" Why not ask those questions?
---Why does BB have to agree with your definition of the connection move? Why can't she follow her own conscience?
---How about this? "What do you call a man who calls God's Spirit of the devil?" What do you call a man who judges those who are obedient to God?" "What do you call a man who sets himself up as the final word on a move of God's Spirit?"
---BB wrote a book on who she is and why? You think she should have said something else. Hey, she had the guts to write the book! Its HER story not yours. (If you think she wrote the book for $ you have no idea about "self-publishing.") You LOSE money, not make money.
---You have every right to disagree with her, CCBTC, connections, and whatever else. But don't think you are any more then just one more armchair quarterback griping on Monday morning. BB is as much right as you are on any of these topics. BB has a right to her opinion...SHE LIVED IT.
---Idolatry, blah, blah, blah. It's always that way with charismatic people. In time many grow up and see their leaders as human beings too. BB was larger than life for many. That is only natural. For those of us who knew her, it was different. To many of us she was a pursuer of God who lived it. Who can forget sitting in her Apocalypse class and the impact far beyond just words of a teacher. For all the people who idolized her it has been hard to see the idol fall. Yes, confusion, resentment, feelings of betrayal are normal. And she was just a shy farmgirl.
---I know people will fall on the floor and foam at the mouth reading this accusing me of whitewashing everything. Can't I object to BB being called "Jezebel" without being accused of whitewashing EVERYTHING? Is there a balance between being Jezebel and being perfect?
---The repentance you are waiting for will never come because one cannot repent for being right. I can only repent for what I (and what the Holy Spirit convicts me of) see to be sin. I cannot repent for sins you believe I am guilty of. I am truely sorry for your pain but I am not sorry for obeying God.

I am sorry my Lutheran relatives were greatly upset when I spoke in tongues. But I am not sorry I spoke in tongues. I'd do it again.
Lanny

steveb · 09-04-2006, 02:15 PM

Thanks for posting, One. I agree with what you say. Lanny is the voice of the old Chapel groupthink that still lives on today.

<hr width=75% size=2><center><table><tr><td>More Chapel reflections</TD><TD>Steve Born</TD><TD>My Home page</td></tr></table></center>

calv · 09-04-2006, 03:13 PM

I know exactly what you are talking about.

onesimus · 09-04-2006, 10:01 PM

I do want say that Lanny potentially has so much to offer that it compounds the tragedy of his continuing denial. If he came out of the cave it could be a real blessing to many.

Personally, I'm moving on regardless.

onesimus · 09-05-2006, 04:13 PM

From CCG, with agape (emphasis added):

Lanny,
I appreciate your defense of BB because you were in the position to know her better than any of us, I would think. I think you are being honest and have no motivation for "covering" her. I trust your years of observations and thank you for sharing bits of them with us.

calv · 09-05-2006, 08:21 PM

I am just so thankful I have never been judged!!!!

calv · 09-05-2006, 08:57 PM

So....
grandma knew what grandpa was doin all those yrs
there was nothing she could do???
next thing you know the kids are all doin it too!!!
it was such a long time ago
why do we have to keep bringing up the past???
IT hurts the whole family!!!
We think you are the problem....(calv)
why can't you just forgive???
leave it at the foot of the cross...

The really good kids do it just right
fall into line
honor the family
protect the name
lift up the LORD???
in grandpa and grandmas name!!!!
(they make us so proud!!)
(Thell get REWARDS!!!!)

Well maybe it's just one big sick mess
nobodey wants to clean it up!
put it in the closet where it belongs.
Act like everythings fine
don't step out of line....!!!
or youll be marked!!!
everyone will know you are the problem...
And grandpas ••• is still coverd !!!!

and no-one seems to notice
or maybe they just don't care!!!!
granpa was such a good man
and grandma ... so much better(for all she went thru)!!!
Look at all the good they have done???

Is it just my imagination?
something I made up...
cause ther's really nothing better to do???
or is it still happening
by someone like You????

CURE the Disease!!!!
don't let it spread
under the covers
It grow"s best!!!

20 yrs from now, what will we see???
the very same thing
wouldn't that be a shame?

onesimus · 09-06-2006, 03:39 AM

Most of all we've got to hide it from the kids

steveb · 09-08-2006, 03:28 PM

Thanks again, One. I don't keep up too much with the CCG board anymore - over time I've learned that there really is nothing new under the sun. In the final analysis, it's just too depressing to keep watching them tread the same old course, waving their little Chapel flags.

In my opinion, the moderator and all the regulars have revealed themselves to be anti-church cultists at heart. Here Harry openly acknowledges that he views himself and the group as waging a war. The war appears to be against all those who side with the mainstream, Trinitarian churches in viewing the Chapel as cultic, and who are trying to wake people up to all the implications of that.

For my own part, I do not regard myself as waging a war with them when I say the Chapel was cultic from the start (in both the theological and sociological senses, as cults usually are), or, for that matter, when I say anything else negative about the Chapel. I was once one of them and believed like they do. I had all the same issues with the church world that they still have. It's just that I've resolved those issues and they haven't. I've now definitely arrived at a different opinion than they about Christian doctrine and its history, mainly as a result of the Chapel's scandalous collapse and a lot of subsequent thought about how we got to that place; I now have a decidely negative opinion about the Chapel and its theology, but I don't think that means I'm at war with those who still advocate Chapel doctrine. I'm sorry they think that.<hr width=75% size=2><center><table><tr><td>More Chapel reflections</TD><TD>Steve Born</TD><TD>My Home page</td></tr></table></center>

(Message edited by steveb on September 08, 2006)

movinon · 09-08-2006, 04:57 PM

The statement about all of us being on the same side...very interesting. I would agree with One's reply about wondering if we are all on the same side. If you look at it in the broadest sense of the idea, I suppose we are all on the same side. But, if you look at the particulars of where many folks are at, it is clear that we are not in the same camps.

I, too, think the analogy to war is very telling. Who is waging war against whom or what? And, does that analogy really fit in the context of One's criticism of BB?? Not in my book, because what that would be saying is that to disagree with or challenge the actions, decisions, and behaviors of a leader or prominent person at cc is akin to waging war against that person!! So, now one cannot disagree with someone without being accused of actions akin to killing that person?? Asking someone if they are fragging their own guy is really quite a question. Fragging was the INTENTIONAL killing of one of your own comrades in arms. Quite an accusation, I think.

Frankly, I am sick of hearing what LP or anyone that spouts the same old bs defenses of chapel has to say about how wonderful certain individuals were. The continued unapologetic defenses of the absolute garbage that was allowed to happen at cc is something I have a hard time comprehending, and don't for one minute believe that these defenses are selfless in nature.

mo

steveb · 09-08-2006, 06:55 PM

Yes - we (the CCG board and ourselves) are on different sides of big issues; but that's not the same thing (in my mind, anyway) as being on different sides in a war. It is telling, that in the minds of the moderator and the other Chapelites who now dominate the CCG board, it is the same thing.

I guess that's why I am banned from their board and no longer able to go there to give my view about the Chapel, even though I was just as much a part of the Chapel as any of them. I didn't realize that, to them, the unspoken agenda of the Chapelite (both then and now) is war with all who hold views like mine - i.e., that Chapel doctrine is cultic and therefore harmful to those who believe it. To me, it just seemed like a natural conclusion to come to in view of the way the Chapel turned out, but to them it was something more like treason, and of course they think the only way to deal with traitors is to silence and punish them.<hr width=75% size=2><center><table><tr><td>More Chapel reflections</TD><TD>Steve Born</TD><TD>My Home page</td></tr></table></center>

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Lanny's rejoinder to my co

Thanks for posting, One. I ag

I know exactly what you are ta

I do want say that Lanny pote

From CCG, with agape (emph

I am just so thankful I have n

So.... grandma knew what gran

Most of all we've got to h

Thanks again, One. I don'

The statement about all of us

Yes - we (the CCG board an

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